Archimago Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 View full article miguelito 1 Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile. Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism. R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Popular Post Ran Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 Bravo! tmtomh and Bones13 1 1 Link to comment
Ron Scubadiver Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Great article. tmtomh 1 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 Way to go. Will be interesting to see the reaction in the audiophile press. Re-read that Stereophile description of the MQA "comparison test" at the LA audio show. Pretty amazing that no one present thought to comment that the tests were sighted and took place in a presentation where listeners were being told "and now you are going to hear the better sounding (MQA) version". MrMoM and tmtomh 1 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Thank you @Archimago for this well written and extremely informative article. This one is so heavy on information and footnotes, it will take the audiophile community some time to read and digest it. Link to comment
Bones13 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I second the "Bravo". Thank you for your convictions, and the time you put into a rational evaluation, using real data. Kinda rare in upper end audiophilia. tmtomh 1 [Home Digital] MSB Premier DAC > Modright LS300 > Atma-Sphere "Class D" Monoblocks > Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers [Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > Boulder 508 (Benz Glider SL) [Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Meze Liric / Meze Elite [Travel] Laptop/iPad -> Focal Bathys Link to comment
Fokus Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Many thanks for putting so much effort into this. Link to comment
Popular Post HalSF Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 Although I'm not qualified to critique the technical side of this essay, it's clear that this is a careful, measured, extremely effective challenge to the viability and desirability of MQA. Contrast the plain-spoken, well-organized, and concise argument here with the meandering, verbose, and jargon-filled filibustering that Bob Stuart offered in his lengthy Computer Audiophile interview. And I'm grateful to feel like I just had a zillion bickering MQA troll posts washed out of my hair by the equanimity and civility of this nevertheless tough-minded essay. MrMoM, christopher3393, ds58 and 3 others 1 3 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Rt66indierock Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 You have to love footnote 10. HalSF and mcvan 2 Link to comment
stevebythebay Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I'm equally interested in both the feelings and actions of creative artists, those who represent the source of all the music that gets recorded. Will they band together and form a "United Artists" of music to take on those industry participants of MQA who wish to adulterate their art? Steve Schaffer Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V / Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates Link to comment
saturdayboy Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 well done, a sober discussion of the legitimate issues. so much of the "debate" up to this point has been too tribal. HalSF 1 Link to comment
beetlemania Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 26 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: You have to love footnote 10. I *did* love the concluding sentence: Quote : the authority of double-blind testing becomes powerless in the presence of that uncon- trollable urge to tap your foot Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables Link to comment
mav52 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Well done. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
realhifi Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 “Ultimately, remember that the music industry can be wrong, audiophile magazines can be wrong, as an individual, I can be wrong (and my wife says I often am!). But the consumer is always right – which is exactly why “we” call the shots. Let’s see how this goes...” Absolutely correct. “We” call the shots with our pocketbooks. Always have and no different here. It will succeed or fail on that premise. David Link to comment
Popular Post Samuel T Cogley Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, realhifi said: “Ultimately, remember that the music industry can be wrong, audiophile magazines can be wrong, as an individual, I can be wrong (and my wife says I often am!). But the consumer is always right – which is exactly why “we” call the shots. Let’s see how this goes...” Absolutely correct. “We” call the shots with our pocketbooks. Always have and no different here. It will succeed or fail on that premise. While I certainly wish "the consumer is always right", practical examples of consumer power are not as plentiful as this dogma would suggest. Monopolies, oligopolies, and mostly unchecked corporate power have been steadily chipping away at the consumer's once formidable "power of the pocketbook". The same record labels that scoff at audiophiles as insufficiently numerous to appreciably affect sales figures have all invested in MQA. That single fact speaks volumes about what the labels believe MQA represents. And because the labels are an oligopoly, consumers have no power to dissuade them from the folly of MQA. IMHO, believing otherwise is demonstrably naive based on the well documented predation of the record labels and their seeming contempt for consumers of their product. alexmav321, beetlemania, scan80269 and 6 others 6 2 1 Link to comment
Popular Post beetlemania Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 Thanks for publishing this, Mr. Connaker. This is the type of article Charles Hansen pleaded you to publish months ago. Bravo! mcgillroy and barrows 1 1 Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables Link to comment
crenca Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 @Archimago, Not sure if you meant to cite http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/master-quality-authenticated-mqa-the-view-from-30000-feet/ when you tilted your final section "The view from 30,000 feet and a birth of a new paradigm?" Excellent summation and audiophile consumer advocacy!! Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 33 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: While I certainly wish "the consumer is always right", practical examples of consumer power are not as plentiful as this dogma would suggest. Monopolies, oligopolies, and mostly unchecked corporate power have been steadily chipping away at the consumer's once formidable "power of the pocketbook". The same record labels that scoff at audiophiles as insufficiently numerous to appreciably affect sales figures have all invested in MQA. That single fact speaks volumes about what the labels believe MQA represents. And because the labels are an oligopoly, consumers have no power to dissuade them from the folly of MQA. IMHO, believing otherwise is demonstrably naive based on the well documented predation of the record labels and their seeming contempt for consumers of their product. The labels haven't invested a significant amount of money in MQA. How many times do I have repeat it? Link to comment
Popular Post Archimago Posted March 2, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 39 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: While I certainly wish "the consumer is always right", practical examples of consumer power are not as plentiful as this dogma would suggest. Monopolies, oligopolies, and mostly unchecked corporate power have been steadily chipping away at the consumer's once formidable "power of the pocketbook". The same record labels that scoff at audiophiles as insufficiently numerous to appreciably affect sales figures have all invested in MQA. That single fact speaks volumes about what the labels believe MQA represents. And because the labels are an oligopoly, consumers have no power to dissuade them from the folly of MQA. IMHO, believing otherwise is demonstrably naive based on the well documented predation of the record labels and their seeming contempt for consumers of their product. True, while they might ram through whatever they wish, I do have the hope that ultimately, we the consumers have a say... Hey, after all, it is the consumer's $$$ that they're wanting! 6 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: The labels haven't invested a significant amount of money in MQA. How many times do I have repeat it? Agree, in the big picture, this isn't a huge amount I suspect. 23 minutes ago, crenca said: @Archimago, Not sure if you meant to cite http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/master-quality-authenticated-mqa-the-view-from-30000-feet/ when you tilted your final section "The view from 30,000 feet and a birth of a new paradigm?" Excellent summation and audiophile consumer advocacy!! Ya got it, Crenca . It was an amalgam of that article title and the "paradigm" one by TAS... I was flabbergasted each of the times I read those articles! I was thinking to myself, "How in the world can anyone write this?" in a completely serious fashion without feeling a significant discomfort as to how it would be viewed by the readership! Hugo9000, MrMoM and mcgillroy 1 1 1 Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile. Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism. R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Popular Post crenca Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, Archimago said: Ya got it, Crenca . It was an amalgam of that article title and the "paradigm" one by TAS... I was flabbergasted each of the times I read those articles! I was thinking to myself, "How in the world can anyone write this?" in a completely serious fashion without feeling a significant discomfort as to how it would be viewed by the readership! It is indicative of just how insulated they are from their readership. They have their heads and hearts so far up "the industries" perspective that they truly can not even begin to take a consumers perspective. Truth be told, as you and I have discussed they have never really had to understand their readerships needs and concerns because they are so used to leading and forming those very concerns (i.e. they have the confidence of audiophiles). This is why I think it is an error to call them "journalists" or the audiophile "press". They are at best mere trade journals written for the industry and including only the industries views and concerns... edit: I should note the one exception I know of which is JA's "More" opinion piece where he notes (after getting DRM factually wrong) that an end to end closed format could have the same impact on musical consumers as Net Neutrality could have on the larger consumer world... skikirkwood, Archimago and MrMoM 2 1 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said: The labels haven't invested a significant amount of money in MQA. How many times do I have repeat it? Any idea of how much? Just trying to divine the threshold of "significant" investment. Link to comment
Archimago Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: Any idea of how much? Just trying to divine the threshold of "significant" investment. Maybe Rt66 has numbers which would be interesting... But the investment Warner (a company with $700M+ in revenue yearly) made towards MQA was said to be "speculative" in nature a couple years back. Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile. Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism. R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Popular Post tmtomh Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 Excellent piece, and I think sections 2 and 3 in particular are key: The distortions and nonlinearity MQA creates; and the "crown jewels" argument, which makes absolutely no sense unless MQA is inferior to the 24/192 PCM masters the labels have. senorx and Teresa 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post mitchco Posted March 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2018 @Archimago awesome job as usual man! What blows me away is that it takes music enthusiasts to bring to light not only technical deficiencies, but what effectively amounts to industry collusion. I for one, don't want yet another closed, proprietary file format, regardless of the technical gobbledegook offered by MQA. The software industry I work in has already been through that nonsense 20 years ago and resolved it with the open source initiative. FLAC is a perfectly fine, proven lossless file format and is FREE. As someone that spent 10 years as a recording/mixing engineer, FLAC can absolutely represent the studio master with no loss whatsoever. @Samuel T Cogley re: the consumer is always right - perhaps audio enthusiasts need to take a page out of the gamer enthusiasts playbook who used social media to boycott the sales of Battlefront 2. Seemed to be very effective. If folks want accurate sound reproduction from end to end, so that the music arriving at your ears matches as closely as possible to the content on the recording, there currently is only one way to do that and that is by using DSP for loudspeaker and room correction. This allows one to match the music waveforms arriving at ones ears to be as close as possible to the music waveforms encoded on the digital media. Again, great article Arch. I am hopeful that music enthusiasts can see MQA for what it really is. Nikhil, scan80269, dallasjustice and 1 other 2 2 Accurate Sound Link to comment
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