Lord_Elrond Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I have a large audio CD collection. I am planning to re-rip my CD collection to FLAC. I want to keep my audio playback quality as free as possible from issues such as clicks and pops due to scratched CD surfaces. I am looking for a stable and reliable CD ripping software (either free or paid) that will allow me to copy my CDs to FLAC and offer ripping settings to handle potential audio issues due to factors such as scratched CDs. Depending on the software that you recommend, could you also tell me which rip setting is best on that software to minimize audio issues from CD scratches? I previously used Media Monkey for my ripping but I have had issues with the software constantly resetting my rip settings to default and it is becoming annoying. Thanks in advance. Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted February 25, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just now, Lord_Elrond said: I have a large audio CD collection. I am planning to re-rip my CD collection to FLAC. I want to keep my audio playback quality as free as possible from issues such as clicks and pops due to scratched CD surfaces. I am looking for a stable and reliable CD ripping software (either free or paid) that will allow me to copy my CDs to FLAC and offer ripping settings to handle potential audio issues due to factors such as scratched CDs. Depending on the software that you recommend, could you also tell me which rip setting is best on that software to minimize audio issues from CD scratches? I previously used Media Monkey for my ripping but I have had issues with the software constantly resetting my rip settings to default and it is becoming annoying. Thanks in advance. Anything that checks the rip against the AccurateRip database should work: http://www.accuraterip.com/software.htm tmtomh, jhwalker and mansr 3 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
rando Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 To offer a fuller answer to your larger issue. Accurate Rip will tell you if there were errors compared to as many reference discs it has stored. Inside the AR enabled program you can set parameters for handling bad frames. Be that cancelling the download after X amount of read failures or any number of other options. In EAC this is a simple option under "Extraction" in the options. DbPoweramp is much more fully featured in the ways mentioned and I believe it's listed under Secure Rip settings. Now what you wanted beyond that was how to handle sound glitches. EAC offers a very simplified editor which may prove enough. Beyond that you would need to look at dedicated software such as is used to correct digitized vinyl. DbPoweramp has no utility for this and expresses itself through more robust, will read the disc at a glacial pace for days if needed, ripping scheme. CRC comparison on a file per file basis is what they are looking at. If you get a low confidence rating try re-ripping that track. If the CRC changes you know there were problems. To further that ability you can load your entire library into Foobar and use a plugin that checks for incorrect CRC. A few hours/days/weeks later when it finished you can delve through the log and see what failed and needs to be ripped again. Link to comment
rando Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Also... It might be worth looking at why many of us rip to WAV to use as backup copy and batch converting to flac for the working copy. A disc image with, or without, a cue sheet has advantages. You probably don't plan to rip your entire collection again any time soon so make sure you have thought it through. Making sure you have the latest copy of flac installed in the ripping program is a good start. Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 On 26.02.2018 at 3:28 AM, rando said: If the CRC changes you know there were problems. You don't know real CRC value. So it is comparioson with non-exact value. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
DaQi Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 audinventory - the CRC may be non-exact but if you used accurate rip it is a non-exact value that a lot of other people agree with and if you start with a good baseline (i.e. a good rip that correlates with accurate rip) you can at least detect a change from the baseline which is a very good starting point. Link to comment
rando Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 For most albums CRC is a known quantity that can be checked against all the available databases as I stated. However, returning to your point, the exact value is not in contention at this juncture. If I rip a single track five or fifty times it should yield the exact same CRC value if the digital data is uncorrupted by disc/read error. Should it not? Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 hour ago, DaQi said: the CRC may be non-exact but if you used accurate rip it is a non-exact value that a lot of other people agree with and if you start with a good baseline (i.e. a good rip that correlates with accurate rip) you can at least detect a change from the baseline which is a very good starting point 100%-correct checksum S1 is checksum is calculated by original wav files that are used to produce CD. At first glance, it seems that majority of checksum values (baseline) is correct. But there is no 100%-warranty that the majority have correct value. Because the audio data (and its checksum S2 respectively) are defined by a systems [manufacturing errors + using/storing damage error + cd drive device error detection and correction + cd drive probable bugs + cd ripper error detection and correction + cd ripper probable bugs]. And we can't 100%-guarantee that all these different non-certified systems will calculate checksums correctly in majority of cases. I.e. checksum majority with value S2 may be not equal to original checksum S1. A safe CD ripper can detect errors in standalone mode. And adding database checksum S2, that is not 100%-exact, cause additional uncertainty. Read more here: and here https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/best-cd-ripping-software AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted May 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 hour ago, rando said: For most albums CRC is a known quantity that can be checked against all the available databases as I stated. However, returning to your point, the exact value is not in contention at this juncture. If I rip a single track five or fifty times it should yield the exact same CRC value if the digital data is uncorrupted by disc/read error. Should it not? A manufacturing fault could result in every "good" rip containing the same error. Now if this is the case, you have no chance of ever getting the correct data. Getting the same as everybody else is the best you can hope for. tmtomh and audiventory 2 Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, mansr said: Getting the same as everybody else is the best you can hope for. "Hope" is exact word AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, audiventory said: "Hope" is exact word Not checking with the database isn't going to improve your odds. Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, mansr said: Not checking with the database isn't going to improve your odds. Improve. You have correct error detection probability Pripper lesser 1.0. If you add checking with checksum database, the database correct error detection probability Pdb (also lesser 1.0). Total correct error detection probability P = Pripper * Pdb. Example (numbers are not exact): Pripper = Pdb = 0.999. P = 0.999 * 0.999 = 0,998 < Pripper = Pdb = 0.999 P is lesser Pripper and P is lesser Pdb, because numbers in right part of formula both are lesser 1.0. So Total error detection probaility is improved if only 1 of mthods is used. See formula and details (part "Simultaneous using of CD's checksum comparison and low level fault detection") https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/best-cd-ripping-software AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, audiventory said: Improve. You have correct error detection probability Pripper lesser 1.0. If you add checking with checksum database, the database correct error detection probability Pdb (also lesser 1.0). Total correct error detection probability P = Pripper * Pdb. P is lesser Pripper and P is lesser Pdb, because numbers in right part of formula both are lesser 1.0. So Total error detection probaility is improved if only 1 of mthods is used. See formula and details (part "Simultaneous using of CD's checksum comparison and low level fault detection") https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/best-cd-ripping-software That's not how it works. tmtomh 1 Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Just now, mansr said: That's not how it works. How it works? AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, audiventory said: How it works? I'm sure you're capable of figuring that out by yourself. Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, mansr said: I'm sure you're capable of figuring that out by yourself. I can't read your minds. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
mansr Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, audiventory said: I can't read your minds. Can you read books? That should suffice. tmtomh 1 Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, mansr said: Can you read books? That should suffice. Clear. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
rando Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 hour ago, mansr said: A manufacturing fault could result in every "good" rip containing the same error. Now if this is the case, you have no chance of ever getting the correct data. Getting the same as everybody else is the best you can hope for. I don't disagree. The best, OP's real world situation where a disc is producing audible and software test errors, case is retrieval of any tracks with data that wasn't corrupted by the physical damage to the disc. Obviously the best case for a like new undamaged disc is closer to what you infer. Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted May 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2018 I guess I have to spell this out. When ripping a CD, you may encounter an error. The error may be intrinsic to your disc due to a smudge, a scratch, or a manufacturing defect. It may also be transient, caused by vibrations or dust temporarily interfering with the optical detector. Transient errors can be detected and, hopefully, avoided by reading the same sector multiple times and looking for a stable result. Intrinsic errors, however, will remain no matter how many times the sector is read. Some will be corrected by the drive, some more will be reported as uncorrectable. There is also the possibility of undetected errors, which is where the online databases enter the picture. Once every local check has passed, validation against a database serves as an additional check against undetected errors. If you get the same checksum as thousands of other users, the chances of you having encountered a random, undetected error are very slim indeed. The simple multiplication of probabilities suggested by Audiventory is not correct. The probability of getting a correct rip does not depend on whether or not we compare it to other rips. We're not dealing with statistically independent variables here. tmtomh and jhwalker 2 Link to comment
miguelito Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 4:29 PM, Lord_Elrond said: I have a large audio CD collection. I am planning to re-rip my CD collection to FLAC. I want to keep my audio playback quality as free as possible from issues such as clicks and pops due to scratched CD surfaces. I am looking for a stable and reliable CD ripping software (either free or paid) that will allow me to copy my CDs to FLAC and offer ripping settings to handle potential audio issues due to factors such as scratched CDs. Depending on the software that you recommend, could you also tell me which rip setting is best on that software to minimize audio issues from CD scratches? I previously used Media Monkey for my ripping but I have had issues with the software constantly resetting my rip settings to default and it is becoming annoying. Thanks in advance. Assuming you're on PC, I think that dbPowerAmp is best. Incidentally, it will rip HDCD discs to 24bit/44KHz, so that's useful (some HDCD discs don't even say they are). I'm not a PC person but one thing you definitely want is something that can do a good job in getting the right metadata for you. Otherwise it makes ripping a more tedious process. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, mansr said: The simple multiplication of probabilities suggested by Audiventory is not correct. The probability of getting a correct rip does not depend on whether or not we compare it to other rips. There is no "probability of getting a correct rip". There is "probability of correct error detection". It is different things. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
jhwalker Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Sigh. If your CRC matches even ONE other rip, the odds against your having a bad / inaccurate rip are billions to one. It's obvious - that's just how it works. All this talk about "odds" and "possible" are just that - talk. John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
audiventory Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 36 minutes ago, jhwalker said: If your CRC matches even ONE other rip, the odds against your having a bad / inaccurate rip are billions to one. One other rip is local multiple re-readings of a compact disk with buffering elimination. In contrast to the checksum, in local comparison (inside a safe ripper software) we: - compare each byte identity and - check C2 flag for each byte of each reading. There many variants of statictical processing. That way we can display damaged sample(s) and check it in an ordinary audio editor even. Here table of detected errors and its timeline location (upper black band with coloured errors) for real CD track. In this CD 1 track is damaged. But in the audio stuff I can't see errors. I suspect that the errors was found and fixed inside CD-drive device. Sometimes ripping seances cause enough big difference of error locations at the track timeline. AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac, safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF, Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & WindowsOffline conversion save energy and nature Link to comment
rando Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Not exactly @jhwalker. The change between offering helpful educational prodding towards someone revisiting their hard traveled CD collection on a new gaming PC to audiophile standards in the production > home reproduction chain was when the transformation from just talk occurred. No matter how unfairly the elementary description quoted was set upon as a basis for examination. Link to comment
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