SOtM SMs200 Ultra, 4th place in my test. What am I doing wrong?

[Bullitt5094]

I am testing the 200 Ultra. Everyone seems to think SOtM walks on water and I expected it to be off-the-charts good. Yet, in a listening test in my system (all that counts in my mind) it didn't sound as good as the iFI Micro iUSB 3.0, a direct connection via HDMI, or even my OPPO 103 connect via S/PDIF to my Lyngdorf 2170. I was shocked. The king has no clothes? Call all these great reviews be wrong?

So, my questions are first... what am I doing wrong? I'm feeding the Ultra from my NUC with lossless FLAC resident on the NUC. I tried both JRiver in a DLNA configuration. I also tried HQ running on the Ultra guessing JRiver could be the problem. HQ actually sounded worse with the HQ desktop utilizing the ULTRA. I'm not sure how HDMI and the IFI coming from the same NUC with JRiver could both sound noticeably better. But they do. Confirmed by more than one person in a blind listening situation with the volume levels meticulously matched. So, what am I doing wrong?

 

Then question two. What should I look at next for a trial to unseat the iFI as the best source? I'm considering both the SOtM dx USB HD or the tx-USB Ultra. Thoughts?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[pas]

What power supply are you using for the 200-Ultra?

[asdf1000]

16 minutes ago, Bullitt5094 said:

HQ actually sounded worse with the HQ desktop utilizing the ULTRA. I'm not sure how HDMI and the IFI coming from the same NUC with JRiver could both sound noticeably better. But they do.

 

Hi, in what ways are these better and worse? Some are brighter and harsher? More detailed, less detailed, too warm and dark sounding? 

 

It can be hard to describe but it may help with getting feedback.

 

Everybody’s own personal preference/taste in sound can be a factor also.

[Bullitt5094]

Everything is using it's respective stock PS. I intend to upgrade them when I decide which way to go.

Just comparing the iFI to the Ultra... highs are more detailed. Midrange/vocals are more natural sounding and imaging a depth of stage is better. The bass is tighter and better defined. It wasn't close vs the iFI. It was much closer vs the OPPO and HDMI but still surprisiging lacking. I was shocked and immediately called the wife in to listen. She had no idea what was what yet consistently picked the Ultra in last place. And she has ears of a bat.

[Emcee]

I sold off my sMS-200 (non ultra) after a week. Thought it sounded good at first but then started to annoy me. I only used the stock power supply though, maybe it needed a good LPS to bring out the best in it. I'll never know...

[limniscate]

The SOtM gear definitely responds to better power.

[d_elm]

Lengthy burn-in is required, two weeks plus, but starts to sound good after 2.5 days.  Do not waste time with cheap power supplies.  I use an Uptone JS-2 at 12V.

[Blackmorec]

I recently installed a tx-USBUltra and sPS-500.  At installation the sound became worse than a direct connection using a simple copper Chord C USB cable.  Much worse. Many of the system's great qualities disappeared and left me with music that was quite unpleasant to listen to. At 200 hours I called my dealer to start preparing the way for returning both electronics and cables. I was running in the system by playing Internet radio 16 hours a day. A short listen every evening confirmed no progress up to ca. 237 hours, at which point somewhere during the next 16 hours everything improved quite dramatically. I'm sure the aging process isn't finished, but in my installation the burn in was pretty painful with no significant improvements until the sudden step up in SQ, which was not subtle.  At 16 hours per day, that's over 2 weeks to start to sound very good, with very little improvement up to that point.

The only way to properly evaluate a SOtM product would seem to be either to get a well run-in dealer demo or run the things day and night until you clock up a minimum of around 250 hours. Finally I've always run my USB unit with the sPS-500 as 'ears I trust' noted that the most significant improvements in SQ came with a good quality PS providing the 9 volts.  

[Bullitt5094]

Thanks for input folks.

It just so happens, what I was sent was a unit that was returned from a professional evaluation of some sort. I then ran it for two days to be sure it had additional time on it. I really don't think additional break-in was going to change the sound that much. But it was a good suggestion not knowing the actual situation.

Maybe a good PS would help, but the iFI didn't have an upgraded power supply either. So apples to apples in my book.

And if the PS they send with the unit is that bad, they should improve it. But I may try a battery on it before I return it just to see.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Mutec MC3+ as plan B instead of anything else SOtM.

It seems there are huge fans of everything solution out there. I've been an audiophile for a long time. So I realize every system is different and trial and error are necessary with all the variables we deal with. Room, other front-end components, speakers etc. just to start the list.  Including our preference in sound.  But I still intend to take another stab with the Ultra with the PS before I sent it back.

[Tintinabulum]

Bad power supplies can feed back to the mains and mess things up. Is everything else on the same powerstrip? What would you do with the Mutec? I’m not sure if reclocking would add anything, maybe even take away. I’m no boffin though.

[One and a half]

The ifi Micro USB 3.0 is very good at mopping the USB signal into something palatable. Image stability, and sound stage are its best points. The output feeds currently a Mutec MC-1.2 (bus powered) to AES3. Originally the Micro USB 3.0 was powered with the 9V, 1.5A iPower, but now runs off an Acopian linear power supply, benefiting the micro details, far cleaner highs and a smidge more stage height. The combo with the current DAC is very enjoyable. 

 

Some Sotm models are designed for 9V or 12V, either way, the correct PSU is necessary, maybe this has an impact on the SQ. A wrong label applied?

[Bullitt5094]

First, battery powering the Ultra did make a very noticeable improvement. A lot more than I anticipated. But no time to do "non-quantitative" analysis tonight. Should be interesting when I get to it though.

 

There is nothing in/on the box or on the Ultra enclosure indicating what voltage it is set-up for. Pretty poor they don't put that info on there IMHO. But hey, they write in broken english on the web site/instruction manual, etc. I don't think communication is a strong point for SOtM. But it is a 9V power supply according to the PS marking. And my trusty multimeter tells me that's what it's producing. I really don't think it's defective. It's apparently just crummy. Again, why build good equipment then ham-string it with a bad PS. Effectively, for the Ultra to work correctly you need to include $500 PS. Or one pretty close to that price by others. So it really costs about $1700. But I know most manufactures supply wall worts or some cheap switching PS with theirs too.

 

And again, thanks members for your help!!

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

On 21.2.2018 at 12:53 PM, Blackmorec said:

I recently installed a tx-USBUltra and sPS-500.  At installation the sound became worse than a direct connection using a simple copper Chord C USB cable.  Much worse. Many of the system's great qualities disappeared and left me with music that was quite unpleasant to listen to. At 200 hours I called my dealer to start preparing the way for returning both electronics and cables. I was running in the system by playing Internet radio 16 hours a day. A short listen every evening confirmed no progress up to ca. 237 hours, at which point somewhere during the next 16 hours everything improved quite dramatically.

Mine sounded fantastic straight out of the box.

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

6 hours ago, Bullitt5094 said:

 

 

There is nothing in/on the box or on the Ultra enclosure indicating what voltage it is set-up for. Pretty poor they don't put that info on there IMHO.

 

On mine the info is right there underneath and it says 12V.

[Bullitt5094]

49 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

On mine the info is right there underneath and it says 12V.

Mine has a sticker on the bottom that has the Model number and SN in english, and other Korean gibberish. Maybe we are to assume it's the standard 9V piece and they only put a sticker on it when they change it. Or the sticker came off when the tester had it before me. In that case they need better stickers. But I don't see evidence of where there use to be another sticker either. No biggie though. If I keep it I'll make them confirm this SN is a 9v piece. Hopefully they log that.

[mfin]

8 hours ago, Bullitt5094 said:

why build good equipment then ham-string it with a bad PS. Effectively, for the Ultra to work correctly you need to include $500 PS. Or one pretty close to that price by others. So it really costs about $1700.

 

 

Yep, you need a good power supply.

 

I disagree that it actually costs $1700 though, because some people already own linear power supplies that they can use so need to spend nothing. Also, some people go for ones cheaper than $500, some buy the matching sPS-500 (not linear), and some use much, much more expensive linear power supplies. (Of course, then some people also buy seconnd hand too).

 

It's much better in a lot of respects that you get to choose the power supply you run on it, because people get to use a better power supply on it.

 

In case you hadn't seen (and for further interest and freaking out), the sPS500 can be used with a Y-lead to power for example the sMS200ultra and a tXUSBultra at the same time. A lead from Ghent Audio will cost $80, whereas the standard SOtM one will be $100, their UPOCC copper version is $300 and their UPOCC silver is $400. Yes, a $400 DC output lead on a $500 power supply.

 

(If you're not doing a Y-lead and only powering one unit you can use the free lead that comes with the sPS500 or their single UPOCC copper is $100 and UPOCC silver is $150).

 

The fact is, some boxes can benefit from all sorts of tinkering and with stacks of choices of how to approach getting the best out of it you can get or afford. Some people like this, other people are better off with less "punk" approach and just buy a box they want that is "what you see is what you get" with no opportunities to upgrade and tinker.

[Bullitt5094]

You make a good point on the fact some may already have a PS or may want a different solution. But I wanted to evaluate different paths for my zeros and ones without investing a ton of money and returning a bunch of extra stuff. I was actually looking at the Ultra SE from Crux with the modified router and the $1000 SOtM PS to power the Ultra SE, Router and my NUC. But then I get the Ultra in for testing and it sounds like hell with it's stock PS. Until I sort that out, I'm sure you understand that I'm not going to feel real comfortable spending almost $3K on the non-returnable, modified, Crux offering that can't keep up with the $400 iFI solution. Right?

[tedwoods]

My Ultra sounded pretty amazing with the stock power supply right out of the box...

Obviously things improve with a better power supply and break-in but the initial wow factor of the Ultra should be pretty evident to begin with.

Maybe audition a different unit?

[Bullitt5094]

Please understand I'm not an Ultra detractor. I really don't think it's defective. Believe me, it doesn't sound bad at all. Pretty awesome in it's own right. And that said.. at first I thought that maybe the iFI is better than everyone realizes. It sounds REALLY good too. But when the Ultra didn't sound as good as the HDMI direct or the CD into coax, I started to really wonder. I'm also thinking my Lyngdorf amp, that all this is plugged into, seems make almost anything sound good. That could be a factor attributing to the close race here. For example, the Lyngdorf actually takes the Analog from my whestTWO.2 phono pre and immediately does an A/D conversion on it. That gives the analog guys heart failure. Then it does it's digital amplification thing from there. Much to my surprise Lyngdorf sounds better with the W2 input than Linear Tube Audio or Odyssey Kismet analog amps did when I evaluated them all. So who knows... We all have a lot of variables.

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Well, as I have Lyngdorf plus iFi microIUSB3.0 plus SOTM-sMS-200ultra plus sPS-500 I can tell you that no way the iFi sounds even close to the SOTM but why not putting them in a chain? 

[Bullitt5094]

2 hours ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Well, as I have Lyngdorf plus iFi microIUSB3.0 plus SOTM-sMS-200ultra plus sPS-500 I can tell you that no way the iFi sounds even close to the SOTM but why not putting them in a chain? 

Another Lyngdorf user. Awesome! Thanks for posting. And very nice system BTW. Must sound great.

I know of two other Lyngdorf owners with a lot of knowledge that claim excellent results with the Ultra/2170 combination. So much so they sold all of their high-dollar analog stuff. That's why I was shocked not to get immediate positive results from the Ultra. Thus my cry for, what am I doing wrong here.

First, I did try placing the IFI between the Ultra and the 2170. The combination sounded worse than the iFI by itself. But that was with the stock PS on the Ultra. I may try again with it battery powered.

Have you ever compared the Ultra with the sock PS and the iFI separately? I would LOVE to know what your impressions are of that. If you say the Ultra blows the iFI away in that configuration, as I expected it would, then I know I have something weird going on here.

Also, what does the CD2 sound like compared to the Ultra/iFI chain? I'm seriously considering the CD2 too.

 

[HardrockInMiniMac]

Hi Bullitt, 

 

that is a lot of question. It is a learning curve and the computer audiophile journey is still ongoing while for instance for Vinyl I have arrived and I am happy. So bare with me and my opinion on these topics:

 

I had the iFi first and bought the Ultra out of curiosity. In my system it is a lot better than the iFi but they do different things. I am watching out for Hans B. to test them in a chain which he announced a few days ago. SOTM themselves are selling a USB re-clocker to combine with the Ultra. That does not mean it makes sense only because it makes money for SOTM. 

 

However, I first started off with the Ultra alone. I really hate all my USB-cables (which is why I had bought the iFi a while ago) and I am not prepared 700 Dollars on a USB cable although it would not bother me. So the USB-topic remains and that is why I have integrated the iFi into the signal path again.

 

I am not going to try the Ultra with the stock PSU, I have just bought me a second sPS-500 to power my MacMini and maybe I am going to get me a third to power the network switch and the Asus media bridge, both run on battery right now. I like these boxes they fit nicely into my rack and I can have plenty of them and it does not look odd. 

 

Just go and order the SPS-500 and return it if you don't like it, which you won't do I am sure. Battery power is a lot cheaper, I got mine on amazon for 90,-€ and it works really fine, powered the iFi for days, also the Asus bridge and well, the switch forever...

 

A comment on HQP and upsampling with Lyngdorf. You might know that the 2170 converts all signals to 24/96 internally, also my turntable analog in and also the CD-in, even when it comes through a digital cable. Everything is turned into 24/96. So I can hear changes when using HQP for PCM upsampling but I agree with the Lyngdorf support saying that it really does not make a lot of sense because then the Lyngdorf processor really cannot do much anymore, a signal once upsampled cannot be optimized anymore...

 

Anyway, so only in this case, it all sounds best when streaming files the way they come. Downsampling to 24/96 also does not help, everything just the way it comes.

 

To the CD-2. I believe it is pure luxury to have it. My 10 year old Rega Apollo used to be as good as at least. But it did not fit the chain anymore being a top loader and surrounded by all this computer-audiophile stuff. Then I got me the CD-2 for reference purpose only. Whenever I believe there could be something wrong with the computer-audiophile chain and I do not have the Vinyl version, I play the original CD from which I once ripped the FLAC to compare. This helps me with root cause analysis. Other than that I have become too lazy with Roon and the advantages of computer audio, my CD-2 might have run 30 hrs in one year only. If you like to round things up, buy it. If you do not really need a CD Player you do not need this one either...

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

[Bullitt5094]

Chris, thank you for taking the time to convey all that information. I've decided to return the Ultra. It just wasn't working for me. I have a couple of experiments with other components I'm going to try to improve over what I've found to sound best in my system. Which is the iFI by itself. I confirmed that with a lot of additional listening last night.

[Mustu]

Mine Sounded amazing. I have all 3 The 200 ULTRA, tXUSB and the 500, I also use 3 lush cables and the iSOREGEN  in the system and the sound is just amazing. 

 

Pure

[Bullitt5094]

Well, the 200Ultra has been returned. Nothing I did made it sound much better than a direct connection. And never as good as the iFI 3.0.

So now I am constructing a new PC Music Server which I'll optomize. I have a tx-USBexp coming to go into the new server. I also have a Mutec MC3+ smart clock USB on the way. We'll see how they work individually and in combination. And the Mutec doesn't need an upgraded power supply since it isn't even a wall wart design. But I am able to power the USBexp externally. So I may throw a battery on it just to see if it makes a difference.

Sorry, guess I'll never be on the 200Ultra train.