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The new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2: USER IMPRESSIONS and QUESTIONS thread


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6 hours ago, tboooe said:

@Superdad question regarding the charging supply for the LPS-1.2.  I understand there is a strict requirement for 36W.  Right now, i am powering both an LPS-1 and LPS-1.2 from a single 9V output from my HDPlex 400W DC ATX power supply.  According to the HDPlex website the 9V output is only capable of 3A or 27W total, so assuming that spec is accurate I have a few questions:

  • Is it possible for the LPS-1.2 to be powered at this lower wattage?  I assume I able to because I am powering my 5V SU-1 with it.  Is this correct?
  • If so, is there any potential to damage the LPS-1.2 by powering it at this lower wattage?
  • Is the 36W requirements only if we are using the LPS-1.2 to power something at 9 or 12V?

 

If the UltraCap units you have are each being asked to supply less than 0.5A (at any output voltage setting) to the devices they are powering, then they will be operating in low-charge-current mode and will demand substantially less current from whatever AC>DC supply you are charging them with.  You can tell what mode their are in if unit feels hot and the other just warm.  I know for a fact that your Singxer SU-1 draws well under 0.5A and so the UltraCap supply you are using with it will never go into high-charge-current mode.

 

A couple of general guidelines (for those who insist on charging their UltraCap units with something other than the stock AC>DC chargers):

  • Since we specify minimum wattage (to a level that assumes our units may be called upon to deliver their full 1.1A output) over a range of charge voltages (18W/7.5~12V for original LPS-1; 36W/7.5~24V for LPS-1.2) you can see that charge current requirement goes down as the voltage goes up.  Example for LPS-1.2: 9V*4A=36W and 12V*3A=36W, 18V*2A=36W.  Many linear AC>DC supplies will have an easier time producing the required wattage at 12V or higher--since the actual current is lower.
  • If your charging supply is not up to the task, one of two things will likely happen: 1) The UltraCap supply will act weird and its LED will turn red (or flash in other odd ways); 2) Your charging supply will complain big time because if its voltage droops because it can deliver the required current, then per the above you can see that the UltraCap unit will try to draw ever more current as the voltage drops.
  • Generally you will not damage an UltraCap unit by trying to charge with an under-spec'd supply (though don't be surprised if the UltraCap unit can't deliver more than 0.5A output because it can't get itself into high-charge-current mode with an inadequate charger).  
  • All the third-party charger related destroyed UltraCap units we have ever seen (and so far only with the original LPS-1) were due to over- voltage (continuous or spikes) from the charger.  The LPS-1 can be charged with up to a 12V supply, but 15V+ will burn a nice hole in a 24-pin regulator on the charge side of the circuit board rendering it scrap.  We can quickly tell when this has occurred and it is NOT covered by our generous 3-year warranty.  So best be sure any third-party charger you us has over-current protection. (Early generation HDPLEX 100W & 200W units apparently did not, but I understand that newer ones do, though I do not know about the 400W unit that @tboooe mentioned he uses.

Hope that clears some things up.  :D

--Alex C.

 

 

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5 hours ago, tboooe said:

@Superdad question regarding the charging supply for the LPS-1.2.  I understand there is a strict requirement for 36W.  Right now, i am powering both an LPS-1 and LPS-1.2 from a single 9V output from my HDPlex 400W DC ATX power supply.  According to the HDPlex website the 9V output is only capable of 3A or 27W total, so assuming that spec is accurate I have a few questions:

  • Is it possible for the LPS-1.2 to be powered at this lower wattage?  I assume I able to because I am powering my 5V SU-1 with it.  Is this correct?
  • If so, is there any potential to damage the LPS-1.2 by powering it at this lower wattage?
  • Is the 36W requirements only if we are using the LPS-1.2 to power something at 9 or 12V?

 

Here is what is actually going on inside: the ultracaps are charged at two rates, the high current mode is roughly twice the current of the low current mode. The change between modes is determined by the output current, with a threshold of 0.5A. Above 0.5A the high current mode is used, below,, the low current mode.

 

There is also a fixed current overhead that powers all the control systems, sensors, ADCs, opto isolators etc. The overhead is constant, so "low current mode" is a bit more than half of what high current mode takes.

 

For a particular charging mode the current to the ultracaps is constant, BUT the voltage it charges to is higher for the higher output voltages. The caps are charged to 5V higher than the output voltage. Thus the power required to charge the caps increases as you go to higher output voltages.

 

Thus the highest input POWER happens when in high current charge mode, and 12V, output. At lower output voltages the maximum input power is lower but it is NOT in strict relationship of output  voltages. Remember the charging is 5V above the output voltage, the fixed overhead and the fact that the charging current actually increases at lower output voltages. There are fixed voltage drops in the charge circuit, at the lower voltages these become a larger percentage of the whole voltage budget, thus the current has to be increased to cover these fixed losses. Its all quite complicated, but we take care of all that.

 

THEN once you have the input POWER requirement you get to compute the input current needed for a particular input voltage. But the conversion is not perfectly efficient, there ARE some losses there. The result is that yes the input current requirement decreases for lower output voltage, and for output current below 0.5A, but there is no easy way to calculate exactly what it is.

 

Its not even easy to measure, the input current is not constant, charging happens for a period of time, then turns off while the other bank is discharging. In addition the current changes during a charge time. When charging is happening the charge current is constant, but the voltage increases, thus the power during a particular charge time is increasing. If you look at the input current on a scope you will see a saw tooth because of this. The peak of that saw tooth is the important part, that is the peak current required by the input supply. To actually measure it you need a peak hold current meter or a scope.

 

So yes, the input current requirement IS lower for lower output voltage, but don't even try and figure out what that might be. The 36W covers everything so we recommend using that. A 27W or 25W supply MAY work for a particular load and output voltage, but there is no way to calculate that in advance. You can certainly try something lower if you want to, but it may not work, there is no way we can guarantee anything below the 36W. We know 36W works for the maximum the LPS-1.2 can output, for anything else it's up to you to test it out.

 

On a note to Alex's post above, the LPS-1.2 has a much higher maximum input voltage than the LPS-1, it is rated for 24V input.

 

John S.

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25 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Here is what is actually going on inside:

 

Great post John.  But likely more than any users needed or wanted to know. :D  I was trying to keep with practical info for them.

 

25 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

On a note to Alex's post above, the LPS-1.2 has a much higher maximum input voltage than the LPS-1, it is rated for 24V input.

 

I did mention that.  Now I have gone back and put that line in bold.

Thanks.  I'll try to phone you later.  Been doing parts ordering for you know what board today...

-ALEC

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I’ve arrived late to this LPS 1.2 party. Mine arrived Tuesday. I already had a good lps powering my uRendu but with my interest in the EtherREGEN I knew I’d need another high quality lps for it. So I bought the 1.2.

 

I wasn’t really even hoping for much difference but I was curious.

 

in my 1st hours listening Thursday evening I was was surprised how much difference I heard. Wider and deeper soundstage , better articulated bass , and overall a more natural presentation. Imaging was more realistic to a concert hall. 

I could go on but I think I’d just be repeating what everyone else has already said 😀

 

I also experienced the superb  customer experience Uptone is famous for. Very fast answers to any question and the 1.2 arrived a day early.

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I am considering adding an LPS 1.2 to my system to power a digital-to-digital converter (Matrix X-SPDIF 2) and am wondering if I am likely to realize a meaningful sonic improvement.  Here is my current digital front end:

 

I have a Melco N1Z (Mk. 1) feeding the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 via USB.  The Matrix, which is powered by an iFi iPower 5v PSU currently, is feeding a PS Audio DirectStream Sr. DAC via I2S (hdmi).  Everything is plugged into a Bryston BIT20 Power Conditioner.

 

The LPS 1.2 would replace the iFi iPower for powering the Matrix.  

 

I am very happy with the sound currently, but I recall hearing a noticeable improvement when I added the iFi iPower to the Matrix (previously, the Matrix was running off of USB power from the Melco).  This causes me to wonder whether a better PSU could up the ante even further.  OTOH, the Bryston BIT20 is supplying the entire system with clean/isolated AC, which could minimize any differences between PSU's powering the Matrix.

 

Does anyone have experience with adding an LPS 1.2 into an analogous configuration?  If so, how did it affect the sound?

 

Thanks in advance.

Melco HA-N1ZH60 Mk. 1 --> USB --> Matrix X-SPDIF 2 --> I2S --> PS Audio DirectStream Sr. DAC --> XLR --> Mark Levinson No. 326S --> RCA --> JL Audio E-Sub e110 (active crossover @ 100 Hz) --> RCA --> Bryston 4B3 (Cubed) --> Magnepan .7

 

 

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Thanks, guys! Mark, are you comparing the Matrix/LPS-1.2 combo to the Matrix with a different external PSU, or to the Matrix on USB power?

Melco HA-N1ZH60 Mk. 1 --> USB --> Matrix X-SPDIF 2 --> I2S --> PS Audio DirectStream Sr. DAC --> XLR --> Mark Levinson No. 326S --> RCA --> JL Audio E-Sub e110 (active crossover @ 100 Hz) --> RCA --> Bryston 4B3 (Cubed) --> Magnepan .7

 

 

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20 hours ago, SebastianL said:

What is the power consumption in watts/hour of the SMPS energizer when the LPS-1.2 is in standby mode?
Is it recommended to leave the LPS on 24/7 for best performance and are there any drawbacks?

There is no "standby" mode. There is off and running. Do you mean running with no load? What is going to happen is the current from the feed supply is going to be small most of the time, then every so often it will switch and pull a fair amount for a small period of time, then go back to a small amount etc. I don't have the numbers right now on what this is. It will probably vary depending on the output voltage.

 

There is no particular advantage for leaving it on all the time, although you can if you wish.

 

John S.

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Hi I'm using a JS-2 -> LPS-1.2 -> Chord Qutest

 

JS-2 is set to 12v

LPS-1.2 is set to 5v

Chord Qutest required 5v 1a as Rob mention.

 

The other output of JS-2 is set to 7v and connected to ISO Regen.

 

This works fine but wonder if I should lower the JS-2 output voltage to LPS-1.2, which may help to reduce its heat.

 

As I got one LPS only, do you think using it on DAC instead of ISO Regen gives better SQ?

 

Anyway, using LPS-1.2 on Qutest brings notification improvement, thank you so much.

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21 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

There is no "standby" mode. There is off and running. Do you mean running with no load? What is going to happen is the current from the feed supply is going to be small most of the time, then every so often it will switch and pull a fair amount for a small period of time, then go back to a small amount etc. I don't have the numbers right now on what this is. It will probably vary depending on the output voltage.

 

There is no particular advantage for leaving it on all the time, although you can if you wish.

 

John S.


Yes, I mean running with no load. ATM I'm using the LPS-1.2 to power my Squeezebox Touch and the LPS-1.2 is quite hot while the SBT is off/standby. That's why I wondered what the power consumption is when it's running with no load?

Thanks,
Sebastian

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6 hours ago, paulmckwan said:

Hi I'm using a JS-2 -> LPS-1.2 -> Chord Qutest

 

JS-2 is set to 12v

LPS-1.2 is set to 5v

Chord Qutest required 5v 1a as Rob mention.

 

The other output of JS-2 is set to 7v and connected to ISO Regen.

 

That all sounds fine, though no particular advantage to charging the UltraCap LPS-1.2 with a JS-2.  

Might you have some other component in your system that will benefit from the JS-2?

 

6 hours ago, paulmckwan said:

This works fine but wonder if I should lower the JS-2 output voltage to LPS-1.2, which may help to reduce its heat.

 

Actually, charging the LPS-1.2 with 12V (as opposed to a lower voltage) will keep the JS-2 running cooler and won't make a heat difference either way to the LPS-1.2.  So I'd leave it at 12V.

 

6 hours ago, paulmckwan said:

As I got one LPS only, do you think using it on DAC instead of ISO Regen gives better SQ?

 

Anyway, using LPS-1.2 on Qutest brings notification improvement, thank you so much.

 

For that you will need to compare for yourself.  Swap them around and see hear. :D

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2 hours ago, SebastianL said:


Yes, I mean running with no load. ATM I'm using the LPS-1.2 to power my Squeezebox Touch and the LPS-1.2 is quite hot while the SBT is off/standby. That's why I wondered what the power consumption is when it's running with no load?

Thanks,
Sebastian

The issue there is the SBT, IT doesn't have a standby mode either. When it is "off" everything is still powered up, there is just no audio data flowing through it. So the power draw when "off" is almost the same as running. Thus whatever is powering it is still supplying almost the same amount of power.

 

John S.

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2 hours ago, SebastianL said:

Yes, I mean running with no load. ATM I'm using the LPS-1.2 to power my Squeezebox Touch and the LPS-1.2 is quite hot while the SBT is off/standby. That's why I wondered what the power consumption is when it's running with no load?

 

Hi Sebastian:

If the UltraCap LPS-1.2 is still warm/hot when your Squeezebox Touch is supposedly in off/standby, then the SBT must actually be drawing more than 0.5A while in "standby."  

 

Our UltraCap supplies have two modes-- Low-charge-current mode and high-charge-current mode:  

  • With any load on its output below 0.5 amps the UltraCap will remain in low-charge-current mode.  In this mode much less current is drawn from the charger (so fewer watts of AC from your wall), and the case of the UltraCap supply will only ever get barely warm to somewhat warm--never "hot."
  • With any load on the UltraCap output of 0.5A or greater and the unit will enter its high-charge-current mode.  In this mode more current is drawn from the charger (and greater watts of AC from your wall), and the case of the UltraCap supply will run from very warm to quite hot--depending also on how high the load on its output goes. (But even when running very hot, the internal parts are never at more than about half their thermal limit ratings.) 

As John said, an UltraCap supply with no load on its output will draw hardly anything from the charger.  Just a little once in a while to top off the ultracaps.  Clearly your SBT is still drawing a pretty substantial amount of current in its "standby" mode.

 

Hope this helps,

--Alex C.

 

P.S. I see John posted something similar just moments before I finished the above more in-depth explanation. B|

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Thanks for the explanation both of you.

So am I right in concluding that, when powering a SBT, the SMPS/LPS-1.2 is drawing the same amount of watts as the original SBT wall wart psu?
The specs of the original SBT psu says 5VDC 3A but as far as I can hear the LPS-1.2 is doing fine with no loss of dynamics, though I haven't done an A/B comparison yet.
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7 minutes ago, SebastianL said:

So am I right in concluding that, when powering a SBT, the SMPS/LPS-1.2 is drawing the same amount of watts as the original SBT wall wart psu?

 

That is not correct.  The charger of the UltraCap LPS-1.2 draws current from the wall in a completely different manner than the wall-wart of your Squeezebox Touch.  The LPS-1.2 takes large gulps of current every few seconds to charge its two isolated banks of (70 Farads each bank) of ultracapacitors, one at a time.  Total wattage consumed from the wall will be different, and larger, than what your stock SBT PS draws.

 

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6 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

That all sounds fine, though no particular advantage to charging the UltraCap LPS-1.2 with a JS-2.  

Might you have some other component in your system that will benefit from the JS-2?

 

 

Actually, charging the LPS-1.2 with 12V (as opposed to a lower voltage) will keep the JS-2 running cooler and won't make a heat difference either way to the LPS-1.2.  So I'd leave it at 12V.

 

 

For that you will need to compare for yourself.  Swap them around and see hear. :D

Thanks for the advice, I will experiment with moving the JS-2 output to LPS-1.2 to network switch.

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Order UltraCaps 1.2 on February 12th. Received in Spain on February 15.

Wow !!

 

Francisco

 

Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5

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Anyone used the L/P with a iFi SPDIF Purifier (5V)?  Due to an iFi's plug breaking off in my DirectStream dac, I got a new  one on exchange a few days ago and have it hooked up to an old Core Audio Tech Kora power supply that hadn't been used for awhile. Fantastic "sonic effects," but tonal warmth provided by the Purist Audio Neptune coax cable - modded Oppo 203 to DS - is largely gone, and pianos sound like they've been tuned in a different key.  Burn in continues so I'll remain paitent, but wondering if anyone has had experience with the Uptone and iFi together. Thanks,

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Hi, 

I'm trying to use a new usb cable (curious usb regen link 200mm) for use with my ultrarendu and my benchmark dac2hgc. Problem is that the LPS 1.2, which is powering the ultrarendu, shows a red / green flashing light when I plug the curious usb cable in the ultrarendu. Is the curious usb regen link compatible for my use? Or is it something else?

 

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1 hour ago, Blackfiction said:

I'm trying to use a new usb cable (curious usb regen link 200mm) for use with my ultrarendu and my benchmark dac2hgc. Problem is that the LPS 1.2, which is powering the ultrarendu, shows a red / green flashing light when I plug the curious usb cable in the ultrarendu. Is the curious usb regen link compatible for my use? Or is it something else?

 

Five red flashes followed by one green flash followed by 5 red flashes repeating means that the UltraCap supply is being asked to deliver more than its 1.15A rated max.  The ultraRendu by itself generally does not draw more than about 0.5A, but whatever 5VBUS is being drawn from the ultraRendu gets added to that load.  But unless you are connecting a current-hungry, fully VBUS powered DAC or DAC/headphone amp, you ought not to be going over the LPS-1.2's load limit.

 

Can't imagine the Benchmark DAC2 HGC drawing that much VBUS (you can get a $10 DROK brand USB ammeter to easily check).

Couple of questions:

1) Do you have the UltraCap LPS-1.2 set to output 7V? 

2) Are you "energizing"/charging the LPS-1.2 with the UpTone-branded 36W brick it came with?

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