The new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2: USER IMPRESSIONS and QUESTIONS thread

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, jimtranr said:

Four Stillpoint Ultra Minis under mine, and there's a noticeable uptick in openness and dimensionality with them in place. Don't know what, if anything, the increased elevation and consequent additional under-chassis airflow space adds to the mix.

 

I sure hope you are getting a BIG uptick in SQ 'cause at $499 for a set of 4 those fancy feet cost well more than the entire UltraCap LPS-1.2!  

[jamesg11]

Budget uptick here! - on the original lps1, Herbies Tenderfeet + Supersonic Stabiliser.

[elan120]

I recently replaced one of my LPS-1 with LPS-1.2, and like the result quite a bit.  While trying this new supply, I also put it in other positions in my system to compare, the result in raising the SQ seems consistent, so a week later, I ordered another two to replace two other LPS-1's I have, with one week of burn-in, I am pleasantly surprised how much more the improvement is.  I knew the improvement would be quite tangible, but for sure was not prepared to be this much.  Overall detail retrieval, smoothness, dimensional layering, space between instruments are all took a nice step up.   More kudos to Alex for this fine product!

[savjam]

"Overall detail retrieval, smoothness, dimensional layering, space between instruments are all took a nice step up."

 

Elan120, your observations of the improvements of the LPS2 over the LPS1 are spot on.  I am using it to drive an UltraRendu. 

 

Kudos to Uptone Audio on another great affordable product.

 

 

[nbpf]

On 10/12/2018 at 9:06 PM, elan120 said:

I recently replaced one of my LPS-1 with LPS-1.2, and like the result quite a bit.  While trying this new supply, I also put it in other positions in my system to compare, the result in raising the SQ seems consistent, so a week later, I ordered another two to replace two other LPS-1's I have, with one week of burn-in, I am pleasantly surprised how much more the improvement is.  I knew the improvement would be quite tangible, but for sure was not prepared to be this much.  Overall detail retrieval, smoothness, dimensional layering, space between instruments are all took a nice step up.   More kudos to Alex for this fine product!

Interesting, which devices of your system do you actually power via the LPS-1.2s? Thanks, nbpf

[elan120]

10 hours ago, nbpf said:

Interesting, which devices of your system do you actually power via the LPS-1.2s? Thanks, nbpf

I use them to power a Singxer SU-1 and two SOtM sCLK-EX clock boards.

[nbpf]

2 hours ago, elan120 said:

I use them to power a Singxer SU-1 and two SOtM sCLK-EX clock boards.

Thanks for your feedback! Best, nbpf

[EMMM]

I am now the happy owner of a total of 4 LPS-1.2 power supplies.  Each of them has given me an improvement in sound quality with better imaging and space around performers as well as deeper bass.  They are used for powering:

 

1. Lumin D1

2. SOtM SMS-200 Ultra

3. ISO Regen between SMS-200 Ultra and DAC

4. ISO Regen between iMac and Steinberg USB Audio Interface

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, EMMM said:

I am now the happy owner of a total of 4 LPS-1.2 power supplies.

 

Happy clients with multiple units—my favorite kind!  You guys (and a few gals) are the best!  

Thanks so much,

—Alex C. and John S.

 

P.S.  Lumin D1, cool match. Bet it really kicks its SQ up a notch.

[EMMM]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

Happy clients with multiple units—my favorite kind!  You guys (and a few gals) are the best!  

Thanks so much,

—Alex C. and John S.

 

P.S.  Lumin D1, cool match. Bet it really kicks its SQ up a notch.

 

The Lumin D1 and LPS-1.2 is indeed a good match and, in my system, better than the supplied D1 SMPS.  Soundstaging is improved with more depth and the music sounds more "relaxed", not so digital.  I was pleasantly surprised that the LPS-1.2 could power the D1 given that the D1's requirement was 12V 1.5A, but since I'm not using any connected USB devices, I'm guessing the D1 does not need so much juice.

[littlecx]

Just got my lps-1.2. i found that it is quite hot when running. is it normal?

[nbpf]

I have just received an LPS-1.2 that I had ordered last week: perfect delivery, excellent packaging (I love the blue box and the tiny black screwdriver) and fantastic build quality! It is now happily warming up and waiting for its load (a DigiOne Signature) to be delivered and connected. Thanks to Alex and to the whole UpTone Audio crew! 

[nbpf]

3 hours ago, littlecx said:

Just got my lps-1.2. i found that it is quite hot when running. is it normal?

I guess so, that's what is written in the User Guide: "During use, it is normal for the case of the LPS-1.2 to become very warm - perhaps even hot - under full load".

[littlecx]

I used it to power micro iusb3.0. it is much much better than ipower. worth every penny.

[jimtranr]

3 hours ago, littlecx said:

Just got my lps-1.2. i found that it is quite hot when running. is it normal?

I've found that by placing my 1.2 on aftermarket footers (note, Alex, that I'm not saying which ones--:-) ) that elevate its chassis by about 3/4" above the shelf top the unit runs a lot cooler during operation. Alex also suggests an alternate method--mounting the 1.2 on its side--to facilitate heat dissipation. 

[Albrecht]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:35 AM, jamesg11 said:

Budget uptick here! - on the original lps1, Herbies Tenderfeet + Supersonic Stabiliser.

+1 I have about 16 of those little Tenderfoots underneath all my little boxes, - including the FMCs......

 

Cheers,

 

[azupan75]

6 hours ago, littlecx said:

Just got my lps-1.2. i found that it is quite hot when running. is it normal?

It is a design choice Uptone made to allow for higher voltages in lps-1.2 (9, 12v). To keep temperature down use the highest voltage allowed for your device since lps-1.2 set to lowest voltage turns huge amounts to heat and I had two units (lps 1.2 ) failed and replaced. Had  no problem with lps-1 though which doesn’t allow for voltages higher than 7V and therefore doesn’t generate so much heat. Lps-1.2 is best served on dacs with 9-12v inputs (up to 1.1 A) for unit longevity sake. Of course that is my experience with the lps-1 and lps-1.2. 

 

[Superdad]

1 minute ago, azupan75 said:

It is a design choice Uptone made to allow for higher voltages in lps-1.2 (9, 12v). To keep temperature down use the highest voltage allowed for your device since lps-1.2 set to lowest voltage turns huge amounts to heat and I had two units (lps 1.2 ) failed and replaced. Had  no problem with lps-1 though which doesn’t allow for voltages higher than 7V and therefore doesn’t generate so much heat. Lps-1.2 is best served on dacs with 9-12v inputs (up to 1.1 A) for unit longevity sake. Of course that is my experience with the lps-1 and lps-1.2. 

 

Although the UltraCap LPS-1.2 can run about 4-degrees C hotter than the original LPS-1, what you say about it running cooler at lower voltages is NOT true. (And the units that failed on you failed for a reason completely unrelated to heat--see: 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38595-the-new-generation-ultracap-lps-12-user-impressions-and-questions-thread/?do=findComment&comment=854787  ; And that issue is well behind us now.  Over 100 of the boards with new large-module soldering profile/procedures are in the field and so far not a single failure reported.)

 

Variation in heat is based on output current not voltage.  If the device you are powering with the UltraCap LPS-1.2 is drawing 0.5 amp or above, then yes, the unit will run hot.  It is normal and we designed for the case to act as the heat sink to the air.  At no point are any of the devices on the board operating at more than half their rated thermal limits.

 

Here is a little more detail:
At below 0.5A output current—at any of its 4 output voltage settings—the LPS-1.2 will stay in “low-charge-current mode” and will not need high wattage from the charger supply.  When the load on the output of the LPS-1.2 is 0.5A or greater, the unit goes into "high-charge-current mode” and much more wattage will be drawn from whatever supply is charging it.  
It is pretty easy to tell if the LPS-1.2 is in low or high mode by feeling the case after an hour of continuous use with a given load.  In low current mode the case will be warm but not hot.  In high current mode—anything 0.5A or above, the case will get hot.

 

If the heat bothers you, you can either stand the LPS-1.2 in its face (with cables coming out the top), or come up with a cradle to stand it on one curved side.  Either of these methods will increase airflow around the unit. But I really would not worry about it. At no point are any of the devices on the board operating at more than half their rated thermal limits.

 

So glad that everyone is enjoying their UltraCap LPS-1.2 supplies and using them for such a wide range of devices! 

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[azupan75]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

what you say about it running cooler at lower voltages is NOT true. (

 

Sorry Alex to have provoked you but I made no such claim, quite the opposite. Due to the fact lps-1.2 is specified up to 12v it is when set at lower voltages it generates more heat since residual power ( unused by attached device )is dissipated as heat. i.e.: device attached draws only 1A * 7v = 7 watts while lps-1.2 clearly generates at least 12v *1.1A but likely a lot more since 36w power supply is required to run lps-1.2. Ergo,the lower voltage setting the more power VA are converted to heat. Of course since Amperage is one factor in VA equation it depends on amperage how much excess heat is dissipated. It in no way disproves my claim lps-1.2 runs hotter due to the fact of differences in required and provided voltage. Maximum amperage is always constant no matter the voltage 1,1 A max. So it is down to voltage difference that at full load (1,1 A) presents difference in watts provided and watts actually used rest needs to dissipate as heat. Yes, units may be quality made to withstand that as you claim, but was not proven in practice till now. Will report how it goes with my 3rd unit I just received as a replacement or hopefully not.

 

With respects,

Andrej

[Superdad]

9 minutes ago, azupan75 said:

Due to the fact lps-1.2 is specified up to 12v it is when set at lower voltages it generates more heat since residual power ( unused by attached device )is dissipated as heat.

 

Sorry Andrej, but normal thinking about voltage drop and thermal dissipation does not apply to our sophisticated design.  The LT3045 output regulators always get fed less than 1V above the selected output voltage, so they are not contributing to the heat of the unit.

 

Most of the heat of our UltraCap units comes from the supercapacitors themselves.  We use 2 more of them in the LPS-1.2 than we did in the LPS-1, so that accounts for most of the difference between the models, though differences in the parts and architecture of the charging side result in other variations.

 

Unless you have (as we do) a programmable load and a high-end thermal imaging camera, it is not possible to make accurate statements about how various input charger and output voltages and loads affect the thermal dissipation of our UltraCap supplies.  

 

Please just believe me when I say that the unit will run just warm with any amperage load (any voltage) under 0.5A, and that it will run hot at 0.5A and above.  And yes, when pushed to its 1.1A limit under steady-state it will get quite hot (but still within legal limits).  I have spent tens of hours testing these units (and have a library of thermal photos of the board in and out of the case), so we do how they perform.

(Here is an LPS-1.2 outputting 1A @ 7V after 1 hour.)

 

[littlecx]

so i think my lps-1.2 is running in "high-charge-current mode”. after the micro iusb3.0, there are igalvanic, ipurifier3 and usb board in dac to power

so is it better to switch it off when not in use? to save energy. how long the switch last if, say, i switch it on and off twice a day?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, littlecx said:

so i think my lps-1.2 is running in "high-charge-current mode”. after the micro iusb3.0, there are igalvanic, ipurifier3 and usb board in dac to power

 

You are most definitely going to be in high-charge-current mode; I've measured both the iUSB3.0 and the iGalvanic and they are both quite power hungry devices.

 

1 hour ago, littlecx said:

so is it better to switch it off when not in use? to save energy. how long the switch last if, say, i switch it on and off twice a day?

 

You can turn off and on the UltraCap LPS-1.2 if you wish.  It's power switch is rated fro 40,000 cycles and we don't actually run any current through that switch (it controls a transistor switch).

[GryphonGuy]

15 hours ago, littlecx said:

Just got my lps-1.2. i found that it is quite hot when running. is it normal?

My LPS-1.2 runs quite hot meaning I can touch it for a few seconds. I have it set to 7 Volts output for the UltraRendu (The UlraRendu runs at almost body temperature as it is neither cool nor warm to the touch). So that is my normal for the record.

[dtb300]

On 10/22/2018 at 3:08 PM, Superdad said:

Here is a little more detail:
At below 0.5A output current—at any of its 4 output voltage settings—the LPS-1.2 will stay in “low-charge-current mode” and will not need high wattage from the charger supply.  When the load on the output of the LPS-1.2 is 0.5A or greater, the unit goes into "high-charge-current mode” and much more wattage will be drawn from whatever supply is charging it.  
It is pretty easy to tell if the LPS-1.2 is in low or high mode by feeling the case after an hour of continuous use with a given load.  In low current mode the case will be warm but not hot.  In high current mode—anything 0.5A or above, the case will get hot.

 

Alex,

 

Excellent description of how your unit operates.  Makes perfect sense now for me and my 1.2 and why it is hot compared to my 1.1.   Good to hear it is not "too hot".

[cat6man]

To start, I have been a happy owner of an lps-1.2 powering my ultraRendu.

However, my DAC sounds best with aes/ebu input (by far) so I added a D-D converter to get aes/ebu,

moved the lps-1.2 to the DDC and put my old lps-1 on the ultraRendu............and then forgot about it.

 

For some reason, I felt it was time to order a second lps-1.2 to power the ultraRendu and wow, it only took one

track to convince me this was long overdue.  Listening to Joan Baez sing "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" showed instantly the improvements, improving vocal depth (her voice moved forward out of the mix and had more micro-detail) with no trace of harshness (Baez' voice pierces my eardrums when not done right, so this is one of my definitive tests tracks for that reason) and separates instruments more clearly. 

 

This whole power thing (along with grounding?) is so much more important than I would have thought a few years ago.

 

Then I moved the lps-1 to a tp-link  optical-ethernet converter and this compared a direct ethernet feed from my router.

No question again, adding the optical feed was clearly worse, which was totally unexpected since optical feed for 50 feet should be quieter than a 50ft run of cat6 cable and there are multiple re-clockings between the ethernet and the DAC (ultraRendu and DDC to aes/ebu).  Huh???????