The new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2: USER IMPRESSIONS and QUESTIONS thread

[Superdad]

9 minutes ago, davide256 said:

A question on this configuration: if powering micro or ultraRendu and ISO Regen off the same LPS 1.2, should the switch for ISO Regen to supply 5V be in the off position?

 

If you mean the VBUS switch on the USPCB A>B Adapter that comes with the ISO REGEN, the true answer depends upon if your DAC/DDC requires any 5VBUS to operate.

 

If you mean the red switch on the ISO REGEN itself, that's for defeating the galvanic isolation if needed or desired.

 

More generally, the VBUS switch on the USPCB is as useful as a screen door on a submarine.  It is useful for use in determining if you DAC needs VBUS.  If it does, then you leave the switch on; If it does not use VBUS then well, what’s the point of tuning it off?  It is not like the 5V goes anywhere.  You are not even keeping it off a long USB cable (some people like split or data-only cables to reduce capacitive coupling to the data lines). 

 

---------

 

[davide256]

Just now, Superdad said:

 

If you mean the VBUS switch on the USPCB A>B Adapter that comes with the ISO REGEN, the true answer depends upon if your DAC/DDC requires any 5VBUS to operate.

 

If you mean the red switch on the ISO REGEN itself, that's for defeating the galvanic isolation if needed or desired.

 

More generally, the VBUS switch on the USPCB is as useful as a screen door on a submarine.  It is useful for use in determining if you DAC needs VBUS.  If it does, then you leave the switch on; If it does not use VBUS then well, what’s the point of tuning it off?  It is not like the 5V goes anywhere.  You are not even keeping it off a long USB cable (some people like split or data-only cables to reduce capacitive coupling to the data lines). 

 

---------

 

talking purely about the ISO Regen... trying to understand if  having it provide the 5V on USB out to DAC would cause more current draw than just passing through the 5V from  micro or ultra Rendu? Sounds like if both devices are using the same LPS that there is no value gained from having the switch on?

[Superdad]

25 minutes ago, davide256 said:

talking purely about the ISO Regen... trying to understand if  having it provide the 5V on USB out to DAC would cause more current draw than just passing through the 5V from  micro or ultra Rendu?

 

Sorry David, but it seems you are conflating separate factors.  Let me see if I can untwist ?:

 

a) There is no way to prevent the ISO REGEN from having its 1A 5VBUS regulator from being in the path--unless you stick it in a drawer.

The regulator operating with no no load will not cause current draw.  It is the downstream DAC/DDC that adds 5VBUS load to the chain. Other than putting a VBUS injector AFTER the ISO REGEN (another PS?!), the DAC's VBUS load is what it is.

 

b) Anytime the DC coming in on the ISO REGENs 6-8V downstream side power input is more than about 5.4V, you are going to get 5V presented on the 5VBUS pin of the ISO's output jack.  Feed the ISO REGEN with only 5V and any draw from the DAC will see that 5V drop some (I measured 4.94V with a 120mA VBUS load).  Sometimes this is not a problem.  I ran an ISO REGEN and Singxer SU-1 off a single LPS-1 set to 5V. (That's 5V for SU-1's main board, and 4.94 VBUS from the ISO REGEN with the load of the SU-1)

 

c) Neither the microRendu or ultraRendu can run on 5V, so one can't go in that direction.

 

I guess I am not clear on what situation you are trying to improve to allow use of a single supply for the microRendu/ISO REGEN combo.  It would have to be a crazy large VBUS load--far in excess of USB spec'ed 500mA max to not permit a single UltraCap supply (both models 1.1A max) to power a microRendu>ISO REGEN>Full VBUS-sucking chain.

 

Here is a photo of a test I took with an iFi micro iDSD DAC/headphone amp.  You can see in the photo that the DAC alone is drawing 540mA, so the ISO REGEN is charging the micro iDSD's battery even!

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Sounds like if both devices are using the same LPS that there is no value gained from having the switch on?

 

Which switch now please? If you mean the galvanic isolation switch on the ISO REGEN, then yes that is correct.  Powering both the microRendu and an ISO REGEN from the same supply will defeat the GI.  

This is why, if needing to provide DC power to three devices, say a microRendu (or similar), an ISO REGEN, and a say a DAC that accepts external DC (besides via USB input), I would choose to use the single supply to power the ISO REGEN and the downstream DAC, and use another supply for the renderer.

 

Just remember though: the UltraCap supply output is still 100% floated and not connected to any other system or mains grounds. ?

[sahmen]

Okay one General question for LPS-1.2 and Ultrarendu users.  What voltage setting on the LPS-1.2 is optimal for the Ultrarendu (if the voltage setting does make a difference) : 7 or 9?

[sahmen]

14 hours ago, sahmen said:

Okay one General question for LPS-1.2 and Ultrarendu users.  What voltage setting on the LPS-1.2 is optimal for the Ultrarendu (if the voltage setting does make a difference) : 7 or 9?

Okay, I decided to set the voltage at 7 on the LPS-1.2 for use with the Ultrarendu, and it is working fine, and I am going to leave it there, unless setting it at 9 will make some kind of difference in SQ.

 

Still awaiting the forum's input on this. ?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, sahmen said:

Still awaiting the forum's input on this. ?

 

7V is good.  All the circuits in the ultraRendu run at various voltages much lower than that, so anything higher is just regulated down and dissipated as extra heat.  

[sahmen]

18 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

7V is good.  All the circuits in the ultraRendu run at various voltages much lower than that, so anything higher is just regulated down and dissipated as extra heat.  

Good to know.

 

Thanks.

[Juraj]

Hi guys

Few days ago i recieved my ISO REGEN + LPS1,2 bundle, and having some issues getting my NUC to see M2tech HIFACE EVO through ISO i decided to try LPS 1,2 with HIFACE (wich has good DIY LPSU fed by good quality Kimber power cord). MY God, the difference in sound quality is stuning! Since HIFACE has power input specified from 7 to 11v i did try it on LPS and to my amazment, things are much better when using 7v instead of 9v. Great stuff from Uptone audio!!

Juraj

[Juraj]

regarding my previous post, if there is somebody who use ISO REGEN in combination with M2tech HIFACE EVO, i could use a help with seetting things up. My computer will not recognise HIFACE trough ISO (with or without GI). I use NUC with windows 10 home, 64 bit. Player is Jplay, but i have try also with windows player, and Jplay mini, and Jplay server.

Thanx

[simonp]

Maybee the cable is a problem. Try a uspcb adapter instaed of a cable.

[thread]

I just wanted to drop by with a quick note.

 

I recently had some trouble with my LPS-1.2 which was likely due to my own mistake in its use. I was so pleased and relieved to see Superdad step up with quick, friendly, and reassuring emails. I'm now back in business and couldn't be happier. The experience had me going deeper into the UpTone line with the ISO REGEN, which also seems to be a stellar product. Now I'm keeping my ears peeled on the rumored ethernet switch!

 

Thank you so much to Alex & everyone at UpTone!

[Superdad]

On 7/26/2018 at 11:54 PM, Juraj said:

Hi guys

Few days ago i recieved my ISO REGEN + LPS1,2 bundle, and having some issues getting my NUC to see M2tech HIFACE EVO through ISO i decided to try LPS 1,2 with HIFACE (wich has good DIY LPSU fed by good quality Kimber power cord). MY God, the difference in sound quality is stuning! Since HIFACE has power input specified from 7 to 11v i did try it on LPS and to my amazment, things are much better when using 7v instead of 9v. Great stuff from Uptone audio!!

Juraj

 

Hi Juraj:

Glad to hear you like the UltraCap LPS-1.2 so much!  I was on a trip for a few days (getting away from the Yosemite fire smoke and celebrating my 30th wedding anniversary with my wife), so just today working though the e-mail mountain.  I did sent you a reply regarding your challenges with the ISO REGEN and your early M2Tech HiFace EVO.

And I promise to return everyone else's e-mail messages--starting with the earliest ones.  Think I have another 20 to go to get caught up from the weekend. 

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, thread said:

I recently had some trouble with my LPS-1.2 which was likely due to my own mistake in its use. I was so pleased and relieved to see Superdad step up with quick, friendly, and reassuring emails. I'm now back in business and couldn't be happier. The experience had me going deeper into the UpTone line with the ISO REGEN, which also seems to be a stellar product. Now I'm keeping my ears peeled on the rumored ethernet switch!

 

That's really great, thanks!  

 

And development on EtherREGEN is proceeding apace. Just got off an interesting call with John about it.  It is a complicated piece, and it looks like we are going to have to flash every board with some code so the switch chip comes up in the right modes.  We were trying to avoid that, but it's really no big deal, just an extra step during assembly/testing.  We already do this with both the UltraCap and the ISO REGEN.  

[Mystic]

My LPS-1.2 just stopped powering my ultraRendu today. The uR wasn't showing up in Roon, so I checked the back of the unit and the light was flashing red and I can't remember the colour of the light on the LPS-1.2. Unplugged everything and then reconnected and the light on the LPS-1.2 is green but it is not powering up the uR at all. I brought my old no name (eBay) LPS out of storage and connected to the uR, no problem at all.

 

The LPS-1.2 is set at 7v.

 

Any thoughts on what the problem could be?

[azupan75]

I think the procedure Alex will ask you to do follows: Check if there is any current on the output side. Since there is current on the input side (green led means ultracapacitors are loading) you may have to replace the unit due to output stage failure. Don’t worry same happened to me. You can find my previous posts. Alex was very friendly and immediately sent replacement unit. But it does set worse track record than original lps-1 regarding reliability, probably due to more complex design -output stage seems to be the weak link.

[Superdad]

20 hours ago, Mystic said:

My LPS-1.2 just stopped powering my ultraRendu today.

 

I replied to you e-mail message a little while ago.  We'll replace your unit quickly.

[Superdad]

On 7/31/2018 at 10:21 PM, azupan75 said:

But it does set worse track record than original lps-1 regarding reliability, probably due to more complex design -output stage seems to be the weak link.

 

That is not correct.  The output stage (70 Farads of ultracapacitors feeding TI TPS7A4700 cascaded to paralleled Linear Tech LT3045s) is absolutely robust and not a "weak link."

 

However, we have recently had a few field failures (no harm to any connected devices, the LPS-1.2 just stops working) and investigations with our board house finally revealed the cause:

 

The charging side of the LPS-1.2 uses an expensive ($26 each!) 15mm square micro-module from Linear Technology.  There are 141 pads to this big part and attachment is what is called an LGA--"land grid array"--meaning there are just hidden flat pads and not pins or solder balls (as with BGA--"ball grid array" parts).  

 

What drove us nuts for weeks was that the few field failures (yeah, more than we would expect or want--it's been a headache!) fell into different categories.  That is, they would come back with different parts burnt, or no parts burnt at all.  We know that the design is solid--and the vast majority of units are working fine.  It dawned on us that perhaps micro-flexing of the PCB due to heat/cool cycles were causing different pads of the big LTM4607 module to lose contact--and depending upon which pads, such would cause either a logic or electronic failure of the charging circuits.  Because the module is designed for much higher current than we use (5A in boost mode and 10A! in buck mode) there are a lot of redundant pads, so the issue rarely will show up.  But if certain single control pads lose contact, a failure will occur.

 

Our PCB assembly house ran X-rays on the LGA modules of the failed boards we sent them, and sure enough, voids were showing up.  I won't get into the detailed analysis of why this occurred and the several steps they are taking to correct it, but suffice to say that John and I are both relieved that the mystery has been solved!  In fact, our PCB house reflowed the LTM module on some boards that failed (so far just the ones where other parts were not damaged), and lo-and-behold they work perfectly again!  They will reflow the rest of the boards and we will replace the burnt parts and expect them to work as well (those boards will still not go into any new customer units; we'll use them in the shop for projects).

 

I'll preempt the obvious question that I know someone will ask:

If your unit is working then you have nothing to worry about.  It either works or it fails--in which case we replace it free-of-charge.  There is zero performance degradation in using an LPS-1.2 from the production runs from which a few units developed this issue.

We will not exchange working units as there is zero need to do so.

 

Enjoy your UltraCap LPS-1.2 and hope that you do not become one of the 3% to experience the issue.  But know that if you do, we are standing by to quickly make it right--including issuing pre-paid return mailing labels (USA only) or reimbursing for international shipping.  If you experience a problem, please contact me directly via our Contact Page or via my private e-mail address if you have it--both go directly to me desk.

 

Many thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

[Geoff1954]

Can I simply say that I know of no manufacturer/seller who responds this openly and quickly to any issues that arise, as Alex and Uptone do.

My experience is not only that the products are outstanding (I own an ISO REGEN and an LPS1.2) but that the support goes well beyond the highest standards in the industry.

Thank you Alex!

[jimtranr]

19 minutes ago, Geoff1954 said:

Can I simply say that I know of no manufacturer/seller who responds this openly and quickly to any issues that arise, as Alex and Uptone do.

My experience is not only that the products are outstanding (I own an ISO REGEN and an LPS1.2) but that the support goes well beyond the highest standards in the industry.

Thank you Alex!

+1

[stevebythebay]

Just a heads-up for anyone with an older LPS-1 that needs a "home".  I replaced a Cisco 8-port smart switch I was using as centerpiece of Roon Nucleus/QNAP NAS/Eero WiFi Access Point/dCS Network bridge setup with a D-Link 5 port DGS-105 and the LPS-1.  Just happened that this switch uses 5volt - 1amp power supply.  LPS works great and the switch has ground screw which I wired to a passive star ground I've been using for many other devices in the system.  System now has a dead quiet network. 

 

Hard to imagine how much better the EtherREGEN will be as a replacement (especially as all my digital gear is already plugged into a Shunyata DPC-6).  But I'm confident it will be.  And I'm hoping Roon will soon be offering their own planned LPS for the Nucleus.

[azupan75]

Perhaps a little off topic, but Steve would you be so kind to share your system setup esp. powering part ( power cables, grounding equipment, other Shunyata eq. and how it is set up) Would much appreciate it. I use combination of Audioquest and Shunyata and find great synergy. Truthfully after I conditioned my system with Shunyata power cables I am not shure if adding any of these usb decrapifiers actually made much difference, if any.

[stevebythebay]

Starting from the wall the circuits are 20a. From there I run a Shunyata Denali with their HC power cable from one receptacle. The other receptacle feeds a Shunyata DPC-6. For grounding I run a non-active Synergistic grounding block. It is wired to one of the two grounding screws on the Denali. I run separate grounding cables from the grounding block to inputs of the Berkeley DAC, dCS Network Bridge, Spectral preamp, Synergistic Research tranquility base, and the D-Link switch. 

 

The Spectral preamp and mono blocks us MIT Oracle Z-cord 3 power cables. The Berkeley Ref. 2 DAC and dCS use Synergistic Research active power cables. Also, from a power perspective I use a Synergistictic Research Transporter Ultra to power the many active SR bullets attached to both interconnects and power cables from the company. 

 

To to be complete, the Denali powers the analogue devices (including the DAC which encompasses both digital and analogue functions). The DPC-6 handles everything else, all digital in nature including a QNAP NAS and Roon Nucleus music player. 

 

I agree that it can be quite important to avoid mixing differing vendor technologies if you can. Even with networking tech. I’ve found that Ethernet cables from different vendors may well negate each other based on differing cable design decisions and even connectors.  As for USB, I’ve studiously avoided their use based on past experience. No sense adding electrical noise in the system, only having to put band-aids on after the fact. Keeping things as simple as possible also helps with any problem determination going forward. 

[jean-michel6]

On 8/1/2018 at 11:58 PM, Superdad said:

 

That is not correct.  The output stage (70 Farads of ultracapacitors feeding TI TPS7A4700 cascaded to paralleled Linear Tech LT3045s) is absolutely robust and not a "weak link."

 

However, we have recently had a few field failures (no harm to any connected devices, the LPS-1.2 just stops working) and investigations with our board house finally revealed the cause:

 

The charging side of the LPS-1.2 uses an expensive ($26 each!) 15mm square micro-module from Linear Technology.  There are 141 pads to this big part and attachment is what is called an LGA--"land grid array"--meaning there are just hidden flat pads and not pins or solder balls (as with BGA--"ball grid array" parts).  

 

What drove us nuts for weeks was that the few field failures (yeah, more than we would expect or want--it's been a headache!) fell into different categories.  That is, they would come back with different parts burnt, or no parts burnt at all.  We know that the design is solid--and the vast majority of units are working fine.  It dawned on us that perhaps micro-flexing of the PCB due to heat/cool cycles were causing different pads of the big LTM4607 module to lose contact--and depending upon which pads, such would cause either a logic or electronic failure of the charging circuits.  Because the module is designed for much higher current than we use (5A in boost mode and 10A! in buck mode) there are a lot of redundant pads, so the issue rarely will show up.  But if certain single control pads lose contact, a failure will occur.

 

Our PCB assembly house ran X-rays on the LGA modules of the failed boards we sent them, and sure enough, voids were showing up.  I won't get into the detailed analysis of why this occurred and the several steps they are taking to correct it, but suffice to say that John and I are both received that the mystery has been solved!  In fact, our PCB house reflowed the LTM module on some boards that failed (so far just the ones where other parts were not damaged), and lo-and-behold they work perfectly again!  They will reflow the rest of the boards and we will replace the burnt parts and expect them to work as well (those boards will still not go into any new customer units; we'll use them in the shop for projects).

 

I'll preempt the obvious question that I know someone will ask:

If your unit is working then you have nothing to worry about.  It either works or it fails--in which case we replace it free-of-charge.  There is zero performance degradation in using an LPS-1.2 from the production runs from which a few units developed this issue.

We will not exchange working units as there is zero need to do so.

 

Enjoy your UltraCap LPS-1.2 and hope that you do not become one of the 3% to experience the issue.  But know that if you do, we are standing by to quickly make it right--including issuing pre-paid return mailing labels (USA only) or reimbursing for international shipping.  If you experience a problem, please contact me directly via our Contact Page or via my private e-mail address if you have it--both go directly to me desk.

 

Many thanks and regards,

--Alex C.

Hi Alex ,

 

Thank for the so open and clear explanation you are giving to the failure of lps 1.2. 

I had one to fail that was swiftly replaced and in fact I did order a second one. 

 

I have three UpTone Audio psu and they have upgraded significantly the sq of my audio system.  

 

I was concerned that the failure may be heat related but in fact your explanation clears that concerns. 

 

Thank for the good work and the outstanding customer service. 

[azupan75]

On 8/6/2018 at 1:17 AM, stevebythebay said:

Starting from the wall the circuits are 20a. From there I run a Shunyata Denali with their HC power cable from one receptacle. The other receptacle feeds a Shunyata DPC-6. For grounding I run a non-active Synergistic grounding block. It is wired to one of the two grounding screws on the Denali. I run separate grounding cables from the grounding block to inputs of the Berkeley DAC, dCS Network Bridge, Spectral preamp, Synergistic Research tranquility base, and the D-Link switch. 

 

The Spectral preamp and mono blocks us MIT Oracle Z-cord 3 power cables. The Berkeley Ref. 2 DAC and dCS use Synergistic Research active power cables. Also, from a power perspective I use a Synergistictic Research Transporter Ultra to power the many active SR bullets attached to both interconnects and power cables from the company. 

 

To to be complete, the Denali powers the analogue devices (including the DAC which encompasses both digital and analogue functions). The DPC-6 handles everything else, all digital in nature including a QNAP NAS and Roon Nucleus music player. 

 

I agree that it can be quite important to avoid mixing differing vendor technologies if you can. Even with networking tech. I’ve found that Ethernet cables from different vendors may well negate each other based on differing cable design decisions and even connectors.  As for USB, I’ve studiously avoided their use based on past experience. No sense adding electrical noise in the system, only having to put band-aids on after the fact. Keeping things as simple as possible also helps with any problem determination going forward. 

 

Thank you Steve for detailed schematics and experience of introducing different gear in your audio chain and must agree with you that in my experience as well adding any usb device in digital chain is more likely to induce more distortion esp. electrical than trying to avoid it alltogheter by going ethernet-aes/i2s even toslink proved to have astounding dynamics, timbre and virtually no noise compared to usb provided correct/quallity optical cable is used. Currently I am considering Simaudio streamer offerings which are to be stellar for the price according to reviews at least. 

Great to see non-biased and frank view on the subject from an experienced computer -audiophile.

 

best regards,

Andrej

[seaharp1]

Can I safely and effectively power my both Project Pre-Box S2 and microrendu with one UltraCap LPS-1.2?

If so, where would I get the Y cable?

 

Many thanks,