No clear solution for managing, storing and playing music library

[ethelthefrog]

I digitized my music library many years ago and have invested a ton of time and cash to this hobby. But all these years later I find myself at wits' end to find a music library solution that fulfills the promise of digital music. There doesn't seem to be a viable option that lets me:

 

• easily store, add and manage music files (including rating songs, editing metadata and creating playlists)
• integrate my library with a streaming service so that as I add new streaming music it can be integrated with existing library (ratings, metadata, playlists)
• easily playback my integrated library.

 

I've used Roon for a couple of years - but the metadata/ratings/playlist library management capability is just not there to integrate my library with Tidal. Right now I'm back to where I was several years ago, using iTunes/Apple Music on a Mac mini as the source, managing (integrating) the library remotely from a MacBook Pro and feeding it to a mid-fi system that includes an Arcam A38 integrated, irDAC, Sonore microRendu and KEF LS50 standmounts. This option has forced a compromise in both sound quality and playback (the iOS Remote app is just terrible). 

 

So much here on CA is focused on gear and SQ, but I've never read much about library management. Playing an album at a time is fine, but shouldn't we be able to take advantage of database capabilities to easily rate, sort and group music from two sources? I'd be very curious to hear what others are doing...

 

[wgscott]

https://audirvana.com/?page_id=4444

[ethelthefrog]

My understanding is that A+ doesn't incorporate streaming services - so no integration with library.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

JRiver.  It is cheap, well maintained, has a large, active user base and forum and a good business model.  Nothing supports as many media types - audio, video, stereo, Mch, etc.

 

It supports comprehensive, industry standard tagging, including as many of your own custom fields as you need.  Ratings are one of its standard fields.  There is extensive playlist capability.

 

Integration with streaming services is hit or miss depending. But, I expect them to up their game at this in time.  I don't stream, myself.

 

I and others I know have in the neighborhood of 4,000 to over 10,000 ripped/downloaded albums stored in it of mixed media types, mainly Mch classical albums on SACD.  Classical presents special demands on tagging/organization that JRiver has handled extremely well.

 

It also supports really good remote control of selection and playback via its JRemote via a wireless iPad, etc.  Also, though it gets complex, it can be networked to client devices in your home.

 

The only major downside is it is a bit difficult to learn at first, due to its extensive feature set.  Once learned, you only need a subset of its features, and it is not bad at all.  For more advanced users, many features can be customized, including the "look and feel", search orders and displays, etc.

 

It allowed me to build a comprehensive Media PC architecture, of which it is the center control point.  That eliminated the need for a Mch prepro, a disc player and a TV cable box.  I can play or rip discs to it via my PC optical drives, except SACDs which require ripping files on a specialized player, an Oppo 103 in my case  on my network.  TV, which it also supports, comes in via a networked Cablecard tuner.

 

I have integrated it with Dirac Live EQ, which is easy and works well.  And, JRiver's audio output goes to my Mch DAC via USB and video to my TV monitor via HDMI.

 

For my needs, it is by far the most comprehensive and satisfactory choice.

[miguelito]

18 hours ago, ethelthefrog said:

've used Roon for a couple of years - but the metadata/ratings/playlist library management capability is just not there to integrate my library with Tidal.

What exactly is missing? There is NO better tool to integrate your local and TIDAL libraries together seamlessly in my opinion. Please explain.

 

I have been a Roon user since July 2015. 

[miguelito]

17 hours ago, ethelthefrog said:

My understanding is that A+ doesn't incorporate streaming services - so no integration with library.

A+ includes both TIDAL and Qobuz. Go to the website. It’s right there!

[miguelito]

To be clear: There is no solution that integrates streaming services truly in one library other than Roon and TIDAL to date. The next level down in integration is Audirvana+ with both TIDAL and Qobuz, but it does not quite “integrate them”, just shows it to you in the same main interface. JRiver is on par in many ways except for MQA first unfold - Audirvana is alone here if you want integration with your local files.

 

There is no audiophile quality solution for truly integrating Apple Music, Spotify, Pandora, or any of the other mainstream streaming services. One might consider one of the audiophile bolt-ons to iTunes (Pure Music, Amarra, etc) as a form of integrating your local and Apple Music libraries but it really is a bit of a Frankenstein solution.

 

My solution is Roon (local + TIDAL) plus Spotify Connect if I really want to play some Spotify on my main stereo - which doesn’t sound all that bad in spite of the 320kbps bandwidth limitation.

[miguelito]

38 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

JRiver.  It is cheap, well maintained, has a large, active user base and forum and a good business model.  Nothing supports as many media types - audio, video, stereo, Mch, etc.

JRiver is excellent for the power user that is skilled and willing to spend the time. For Mch it is alone, I don’t think there’s anything else really, as well as the ability to customize. I actually use JRiver for some tasks (transcoding/downsampling files for mobile use).

 

But I personally cannot do without the enormous amount of metadata Roon provides me with. It has allowed me to discover an enormous amount of music I didn’t know existed, albums I didn’t know this or that performer had been in... The list is endless... I would not ever want to be without this capability...

[Fitzcaraldo215]

10 minutes ago, miguelito said:

JRiver is excellent for the power user that is skilled and willing to spend the time. For Mch it is alone, I don’t think there’s anything else really, as well as the ability to customize. I actually use JRiver for some tasks (transcoding/downsampling files for mobile use).

 

But I personally cannot do without the enormous amount of metadata Roon provides me with. It has allowed me to discover an enormous amount of music I didn’t know existed, albums I didn’t know this or that performer had been in... The list is endless... I would not ever want to be without this capability...

Good points, as well as your points on streaming, above.  

 

I would welcome much more "automatic" metadata myself for my library.  However, with a major interest in classical, I believe manual, carefully curated tagging is the only option for me for now.  Roon doesn't adequately handle it for a large library.  MusiChi is excellent for classical tagging combined with its metadata database, but it won't handle Mch and my other media.  Etc. But, Roon and many others may be fine for tagging and organizing non-classical libraries.

 

Plus, nothing else but JRiver now allows reasonably full implementation of the Media PC concept I have done.  True, it is a bit fussier sometimes, being in software on a general purpose Win platform, than good old, dedicated function AV hardware would be with no OS hassles.  My old plug n play TV cable box also had more functionality than TV via JRiver has.  But, no big deal.  Now that I am there, there is no going back.  No problem, though.  I am happy and I don't want to go back.

 

Nothing is perfect.  You just have to tradeoff and prioritize the features you want and need. It is classic information systems analysis of requirements and possible solutions, someting I have done in my career.  That, and keeping a watch for new developments, as well as trying to evaluate a software suppliers' capability for improvement, since all options will likely keep developing and improving.  I rate Roon and JRiver highly on their future potential.  Others?  I am not so sure.  Some of those may turn out to be also-rans, good at what they do within their limits, but unable to keep pace with the leaders in increasing their functionality. And, changing horses to a new tool might not be simple.

 

 

[PeterG]

Ethel, I do not understand why you pin the sound quality sacrifice on the lack of library management software.  Isn't your mid-fi setup a different decision? Why not simply plug the Mac Mini into a DAC, amp and set of speakers of your choice?

[ethelthefrog]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. PeterG I suppose that's where I've landed. It does come with some functional sacrifices though. No Roon metadata and weak iOS control interface not to mention the SQ tradeoff. 

 

For the others, I suppose I should be more specific. I too have been using Roon since it launched but all my personal library has been curated in iTunes since it originated. I have a very large library, carefully tagged rated and organized into playlists (and smart playlists). It's great that Roon handles all the music and brings in my playlists, but it doesn't bring in new music I add from Apple Music or let me work with my song ratings. I also subscribe to Tidal. But again, when I add that music, Roon cannot add it to my imported iTunes playlists.

 

I just find that while there are great software options for storing and playing music, including JRiver, Roon and even iTunes, the only option that truly lets me merge my library with my streaming is iTunes. So until that gets rectified by an existing or new player, it seems the only option is to do as PeterG says. I now run my Mac mini through the microRendu into my irDAC and A38 amp. Sounds good, just not as good as the more audiophile solutions.

 

Again, thanks to all for your responses.

[miguelito]

57 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

I would welcome much more "automatic" metadata myself for my library.  However, with a major interest in classical, I believe manual, carefully curated tagging is the only option for me for now.  Roon doesn't adequately handle it for a large library.  MusiChi is excellent for classical tagging combined with its metadata database, but it won't handle Mch and my other media.  Etc. But, Roon and many others may be fine for tagging and organizing non-classical libraries.

In Roon you can revert to your file's tags so this is not a drawback per-se. And other than tagging it is, to my knowledge, the one and only solution where TIDAL is seamlessly integrated with your library.

 

However, as a power user with mostly classical inclinations and no need for streaming, I can see how JRiver would be a better solution, especially for Mch (that's multichannel in case someone is scratching their heads).

[wgscott]

19 hours ago, ethelthefrog said:

My understanding is that A+ doesn't incorporate streaming services - so no integration with library.

 

https://audirvana.com/?page_id=4289

 

Tidal, Qobuz, and Virtual Vault