SQ or SNAKEOIL

[Iain]

On 18/02/2018 at 6:26 PM, Spacehound said:

Bits come in all shapes and sizes, run fast, and end to wobble about a lot while doing so. Zeros and ones often look identical and touch each other  in an  often successful attempt to disguise their names from the inexpert. We have recently improved this ability by making them able to have both names  at the same time  if they want

 

The only thing that matters is whether you shoot 'em or not. A 'miss' is declared by a load  crackle or pop.

One major reason I don't post much anymore here is:

• I was having this identical problem (in bold text above) with one of the "premium" software packages featured on this site; hence a loss of credibility.
• Solution was to go with another well vetted and mature software package, that's free but not well featured here.

[Allan F]

We will always have believers, whose experience tells them that certain things may or do improve SQ and naysayers, who will not hesitate to disagree and claim that it is impossible or cry "Snake Oil!". And never the twain shall meet. IMO, these "surveys" contribute little, if anything, to one's enjoyment of this hobby.

[robocop]

"Waste of time" participating in this poll and others off late, seems some CA contributors have nothing better to do with time online!!!!!

 

Really, if you have nothing of value to add, say nothing. Less crap to troll through to find the good. 

 

 

[Spacehound]

On ‎21‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 1:23 AM, robocop said:

"Waste of time" participating in this poll and others off late, seems some CA contributors have nothing better to do with time online!!!!!

 

Really, if you have nothing of value to add, say nothing. Less crap to troll through to find the good. 

 

 

Course it's a waste of time. It's a 'self selecting'  poll.

The other 30,000 people here don't give  a rat's ass about this stuff  so didn't even look at it, let alone vote. So the poll demonstrates nothing whatsoever thus "Adds no value".

 

Add value to the forum or use any added value?

Contribute things you know about. Genuine stuff that you know  others will be able to repeat,

Say when people are actively being  mis-led (belief in magic).

Learn from people who you know  understand the relevant point and have their feet firmly on the ground. This stuff is  just a small and real simple branch of engineering. It's not an 'art'.

The rest is just a weird cult, though it can be fun -  I try to catch fish which I can buy at much lower cost. 

 

[GUTB]

There are those who are willfully ignorant (non-audiophiles) and those audiophiles with experience.

 

 

 

 

The above video is from Egypt 2009 where the image of the Virgin Mary appeared to a crowd.

 

From our understanding of physics, such a thing can’t occur. Yet, these people saw something. The video is low quality so we can’t make out the blobs of light. The only way to know for yourself what they saw was to be there to witness the event.

 

A parallel can be drawn with high end audio. You can’t qualify high-end sound without experiencing it for yourself. You don’t have to go to Egypt, but you do have to bring yourself someplace where it can be heard. If you chose not to go hear high end sound, then you are just being willfully ignorant.

[Spacehound]

21 minutes ago, GUTB said:

There are those who are willfully ignorant (non-audiophiles) and those audiophiles with experience.

 

 

 

 

The above video is from Egypt 2009 where the image of the Virgin Mary appeared to a crowd.

 

From our understanding of physics, such a thing can’t occur. Yet, these people saw something. The video is low quality so we can’t make out the blobs of light. The only way to know for yourself what they saw was to be there to witness the event.

 

A parallel can be drawn with high end audio. You can’t qualify high-end sound without experiencing it for yourself. You don’t have to go to Egypt, but you do have to bring yourself someplace where it can be heard. If you chose not to go hear high end sound, then you are just being willfully ignorant.

Sure. A jerky video consisting mostly of blurs is solid proof.

 

That physics cannot explain everything does not mean that everything it cannot explain is true. 

 

There are also a whole lot of wilfully ignorant 'audiophiles' (you left them out).  Some are wilfully 'anti-science' too though they use the parts that suit them every day..

 

Wot's "high end audio"?

 

 

[Ralf11]

Yet, these people saw something. ...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

[Spacehound]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

You can lead a horse to water......

[wgscott]

On 2/19/2018 at 9:41 PM, beerandmusic said:

so far 12 to 1 believe that SQ above 44.1 is possible.

 

Since truth is established by social consensus, I would say your work is done here.

[Samuel T Cogley]

23 minutes ago, GUTB said:

The above video is from Egypt 2009 where the image of the Virgin Mary appeared to a crowd.

 

From our understanding of physics, such a thing can’t occur. Yet, these people saw something. The video is low quality so we can’t make out the blobs of light. The only way to know for yourself what they saw was to be there to witness the event.

 

A parallel can be drawn with high end audio. You can’t qualify high-end sound without experiencing it for yourself. You don’t have to go to Egypt, but you do have to bring yourself someplace where it can be heard. If you chose not to go hear high end sound, then you are just being willfully ignorant.

 

That you're using religious faith as a direct comparison to your audiophile "faith" pretty much speaks for itself.

 

[wgscott]

1 minute ago, Spacehound said:

You can lead a horse to water......

 

5 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

 

Wilbur!

 

Quote

Cat nuns (France, Middle Ages)[edit]

A nun of a French convent inexplicably began to meow like a cat, shortly leading to the other nuns in the convent also meowing.^[7] Eventually all the nuns would meow together for a certain period every day, leaving the surrounding community astonished. This did not stop until the police threatened to whip the nuns.^[8]

 

Some shit you just can't make up.  I think we have some new terminology.

[mansr]

17 minutes ago, Spacehound said:

You can lead a horse to water......

You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

[Ralf11]

19 minutes ago, Spacehound said:

You can lead a horse to water......

 

You can lead a horse to a mirage of water...

[Ralf11]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

 

 

or a graduate student

[GUTB]

The issue isn’t wether they saw the Virgin Mary or not, the issue is WHAT did they see. The only way to know is to have been there to witness the event.

 

Now, seperately, let’s pretend it was the Virgin Mary. That means certain things with huge implications.

 

If it was a convincing holographic projection of Mary than that means video technology has greatly beyond what is known in the public domain.

 

If it was just a floodlight and a crowd of people pretended it was an image of Mary, that has implications for the study of neuroscience and sociology.

 

Either way, if you observed the event you may learn something you didn’t know before.

[Spacehound]

10 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

or a graduate student

Stores, IBM Hursley UK lab:

 

Graduate newbie - "Have you got a monkey wrench?"

Storeman - "Large,  medium, small, or watchmakers?"

[Samuel T Cogley]

25 minutes ago, GUTB said:

The issue isn’t wether they saw the Virgin Mary or not, the issue is WHAT did they see. The only way to know is to have been there to witness the event.

 

To me, the issue is that you're comparing a "sighting" of the Madonna with belief of what you're hearing.  I don't think you'll be successful in distancing yourself from that going forward.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

To me, the issue is that you're comparing a "sighting" of the Madonna with belief of what you're hearing.  I don't think you'll be successful in distancing yourself from that going forward.

 

[Ralf11]

let’s pretend it was Arjuna 

[Fluffytime]

2 hours ago, GUTB said:

There are those who are willfully ignorant (non-audiophiles) and those audiophiles with experience.

 

 

 

 

The above video is from Egypt 2009 where the image of the Virgin Mary appeared to a crowd.

 

From our understanding of physics, such a thing can’t occur. Yet, these people saw something. The video is low quality so we can’t make out the blobs of light. The only way to know for yourself what they saw was to be there to witness the event.

 

A parallel can be drawn with high end audio. You can’t qualify high-end sound without experiencing it for yourself. You don’t have to go to Egypt, but you do have to bring yourself someplace where it can be heard. If you chose not to go hear high end sound, then you are just being willfully ignorant.

 

You're trying to hard. If you're gonna troll, don't be so obvious.

[R1200CL]

This CA site is realy rocking now. Here Virgin Mary, over at LPS-1.2 thread is about pussies. At Sonore site, Jesus is denial his point of view on the SQ of MQA in John Swenson designed product. What’s next....?

 

[beerandmusic]

9 hours ago, wgscott said:

 

Since truth is established by social consensus, I would say your work is done here.

more than that, it shows there are a lot more ignorant people than i realized, but still a big minority.

[Blackmorec]

You know what I find most funny about the above posts? Most of the people who develop and sell these ‘magic’ boxes are practically to a man engineers or scientists. Almost all are well educated and well qualified for the job they do and all those I’ve met believed fully in the products they’d developed. They would be horrified if they thought people believed they were selling snake oil to the gullible. 

 

The other thing I’ve noticed? In more than 40 years around hi-if, including hi-fi shows, audiophile home visits, dealer open days, dealer demos, I can count on two hands the number of systems I’ve heard that were fully resolving all the information on a CD.  Sound nice? Plenty. Extracting and presenting all the information? Very few. 

 

The gold standard in audio is still vinyl, but frankly a very well set up and optimised digital system makes vinyl sound very old. Lots of interference, noise, surface noise, lack of dynamic range.....but in the context of many systems, vinyl still handily outperforms digital. 

 

For the most part, in order to hear the effects of many of these ‘improvements’ listed above a system has got to be fairly capable.  If you go to the ‘Your Systems’ threads in most Forums and look at the pictures of some of the installations, you’ll already understand why a lot of people aren’t going to hear subtle improvements.  Overly large speakers jammed into small rooms, sited in corners or against walls or asymmetrically installed. Turntables and electronics sitting on large, resonant cabinets, with TVs and large pieces of furniture between speakers. Electronics plugged into B&Q power strips or regular house ring main wall sockets, electronics installed in room corners, power cords and signal cables bundled together.....

 

Finally its worth bearing in mind the inherent ‘self fulfilling prophecy’ associated with proper system set up and optimisation.  If you don’t believe it matters and so don’t do it properly, you’ll NEVER hear the difference it can make, neatly reinforcing your belief.   Here’s what I believe. A well installed, optimally set-up middle of the road hi-if system will almost always outperform some high end gear placed in a room with no consideration given to issues like electrical supply, cabling (type and routing), vibration control, noise control (EMI, RFI), proper speaker placement, room optimisation, siting of electronics etc.  I’m a scientist with 40 years employed by one of the World’s premier test and measurement companies and I would say this. Anyone who can’t hear for example the quite dramatic effects of initial aging or so-called burn-in needs to recognise that the reason they can’t hear it isn’t because the phenomenon isn’t real. Its because their system is simply not sufficiently revealing. And if your system doesn’t reveal burn-in you can be certain there’s a whole lot of musical information its also keeping from you. 

 

Now I honestly don’t care if you believe me or not, but just know that your disbelief in such phenomena may be signing you up to a life time of audio mediocrity. 

[semente]

11 hours ago, GUTB said:

The issue isn’t wether they saw the Virgin Mary or not, the issue is WHAT did they see. The only way to know is to have been there to witness the event.

 

Now, seperately, let’s pretend it was the Virgin Mary. That means certain things with huge implications.

 

If it was a convincing holographic projection of Mary than that means video technology has greatly beyond what is known in the public domain.

 

If it was just a floodlight and a crowd of people pretended it was an image of Mary, that has implications for the study of neuroscience and sociology.

 

Either way, if you observed the event you may learn something you didn’t know before.

 

Maybe it was a High-End projection and they are indeed true Videophiles?

[mansr]

3 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

You know what I find most funny about the above posts? Most of the people who develop and sell these ‘magic’ boxes are practically to a man engineers or scientists. Almost all are well educated and well qualified for the job they do and all those I’ve met believed fully in the products they’d developed. They would be horrified if they thought people believed they were selling snake oil to the gullible.

I for one am convinced that the likes of Shunyata and Synergistic "Research" know full well what they're doing, i.e. making shit up and selling it to the gullible. Uptone and their ilk might actually believe what they're saying/selling.