beerandmusic Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What do you think? Select only one from each group A-H Link to comment
Fluffytime Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I went with "no improvement can be heard using anything above industry standard cables". Because it's the truth. Link to comment
Popular Post Spacehound Posted February 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2018 I did not vote and don't intend to. However, 1) There are a high number of people here who are totally ignorant of science and engineering. It tends to be an expensive hobby so many of them will have made a considerable amount of money in other fields. (Science and engineering tends no to pay well.) Making lots of money (being 'successful') tends to make them think they are experts on everything. (I can think of a well-known US 'servant of the people' who is the absolute epitome of this mental disorder, and thus is the most unservant-like person I have ever heard of.) 2) There at some who believe in magic and tend to be not only ignorant of science and engineering but actively against it, despite that they use it to considerable effect in almost every area of their lives. As a group they tend to see alien flying saucers a lot, and the individuals that do see them frequently. There is an exact parallel in audio of course, the more snake oil the better. Your (incomplete) list seems to be entirely snake oil with one exception that I deem 'possible' as I am not a point 1 person. You have missed some sorts of snake oil out, but no matter. It reminds me very much of a joke poll I once saw - Which is the best ineffective medicine? jhwalker, wgscott and Thuaveta 3 Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 36 minutes ago, Fluffytime said: I went with "no improvement can be heard using anything above industry standard cables". Because it's the truth. I voted everything makes a difference except for usb reclocker....but i could be wrong...i bought into the concept that usb toys make a difference because of noise, but not sure how reclocking the bits can make the transfer of bits any more "accurate", but i really never researched, so I am "open" to the possibility of reclockers, but again, i think all usb toy circuitry should be built into the dac itself. Link to comment
Popular Post Fluffytime Posted February 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2018 What really makes a difference is the price tag. Just ask GUTB. sarvsa, mansr, semente and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Spacehound Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 36 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: Wehve recently iproved tis defence mechanisiI voted everything makes a difference except for usb reclocker....but i could be wrong...i bought into the concept that usb toys make a difference because of noise, but not sure how reclocking the bits can make the transfer of bits any more "accurate", but i really never researched, so I am "open" to the possibility of reclockers, but again, i think all usb toy circuitry should be built into the dac itself. Bits come in all shapes and sizes, run fast, and end to wobble about a lot while doing so. Zeros and ones often look identical and touch each other in an often successful attempt to disguise their names from the inexpert. We have recently improved this ability by making them able to have both names at the same time if they want The only thing that matters is whether you shoot 'em or not. A 'miss' is declared by a load crackle or pop. Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 In regards to pc optimization software I am referring to software made specifically to lower the noise or even manual stopping of unneeded services (like fidelizer or pc optimizer pro, etc....) I am not sure that these software programs are still "effective" if you use a "usb toy" or not? Link to comment
Popular Post Spacehound Posted February 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: You said thry weren't effective in thr first place.In regards to pc optimization software I am referring to software made specifically to lower the noise or even manual stopping of unneeded services (like fidelizer or pc optimizer pro, etc....) I am not sure that these software programs are still "effective" if you use a "usb toy" or not? No they aren't esldude and sarvsa 2 Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Spacehound said: No they aren't. Well you don't think "usb toys" are effective either, so you don't count (wink). Link to comment
Spacehound Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: Well you don't think "usb toys" are effective either, so you don't count (wink). Sure I do. A USB toy will have no effect on something that had no effect originally. Galvanic isolation I think is a 'maybe'. Most DACs don't use USB power and so its wire is not connected inside the DAC. So there is only the 'ground' left. And that will be connected to other things whether you have galvanic isolation or not. It's real easy and only takes a minute or two to test if galvanic isolation has any effect or not but I can't be bothered. Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 As far as cables go, i know that silver cables sound different...but my guess is that they just have a different volume because of different impedance...not necessarily better sq. But i did vote that expensive cable can improve SQ, but i wouldn't buy them. I do have a a couple pair of silver cables that were "donated" to me, but i don't even use them. I did try them and "i think" they sounded better, but the quality doesn't look very good and once i smelled something "burning" using them, so i have been reluctant to try them again. Teresa 1 Link to comment
Spacehound Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: As far as cables go, i know that silver cables sound different...but my guess is that they just have a different volume because of different impedance...not necessarily better sq. But i did vote that expensive cable can improve SQ, but i wouldn't buy them. I do have a a couple pair of silver cables that were "donated" to me, but i don't even use them. I did try them and "i think" they sounded better, but the quality doesn't look very good and once i smelled something "burning" using them, so i have been reluctant to try them again. Silver ones sound silvery, the 'experts' tell me. . Not that I have ever known silver to make a noise. I have played with them in a mad moment myself, as if you don't buy them from an audio shop they don't cost much. As I remember I paid about twenty dollars UK equivalent for a yard of 5-way plus screen (USB) 100% silver cable from my local electronics store. I put the connectors on myself, you have to use 'silver solder' which isn't notably expensive either. Link to comment
Summit Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Spacehound said: No they aren't They do! Take software like Asio or Wasapi that are bypassing the windows kernel mixer as an example. Other computer tasks in a computer have the same degrading SQ effect because of more computer work and data to handle at the same time as playing music. More unrelated processing, everything else kept equal, create more data traffic, heat and noise from hard drives, RAM and processor. Link to comment
botrytis Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 There are a million different answers to this., depending on the audiophile you ask. I mean there is a thread here about how to improve the SQ of a computer audio system and there are some kooky things in that thread. Why is this different? I didn't vote, btw. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Spacehound Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 40 minutes ago, Summit said: They do! Take software like Asio or Wasapi that are bypassing the windows kernel mixer as an example. Other computer tasks in a computer have the same degrading SQ effect because of more computer work and data to handle at the same time as playing music. More unrelated processing, everything else kept equal, create more data traffic, heat and noise from hard drives, RAM and processor. There is some truth in what you say. At IBM we can make a portable radio play tunes by putting it on top of a CPU and 'programming to suit'.) However (there's always at least one however). 1) 'Music' (which isn't music at the time) processing is such a light load that that as long at the digital output is bit perfect it doesn't matter how it gets there. 2) Timing is not important as it's all done by the DAC's clock so what else is going on doesn't matter. 3) The 'shape' of a bit is not important (and often zeros and ones are exactly the same electrically and there is NO gap between them so 'edges' don't matter as they don't exist so cannot be detected) unless it's so bad it is detected incorrectly which result in a loud 'click'. There is no 'gradual degradation'. Which is the whole point of using 'digital' at all. gridlock74 1 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2018 the choices are too binary. The real answer for me is "X can make a difference, sometimes, depending on setup" opus101, mansr and Teresa 2 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
semente Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I see no mention of vaccines... "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
mansr Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Spacehound said: Galvanic isolation I think is a 'maybe'. Most DACs don't use USB power and so its wire is not connected inside the DAC. So there is only the 'ground' left. And that will be connected to other things whether you have galvanic isolation or not. It's real easy and only takes a minute or two to test if galvanic isolation has any effect or not but I can't be bothered. It's easy enough to construct a setup where differences with various types of isolation are readily measured. Actually hearing a difference is another story. Link to comment
fas42 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I didn't see an option: ??) Locating and resolving implementation flaws improves SQ Hence, didn't vote, because all the rest are quite trivial in comparison. Link to comment
Spacehound Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 8 hours ago, mansr said: It's easy enough to construct a setup where differences with various types of isolation are readily measured. Actually hearing a difference is another story. I agree with that and didn't intend to imply any different. Maybe you didn't either. (My not being bothered is a 30 mile round trip and the signing of a chit for the security man.) Link to comment
mansr Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Spacehound said: I agree with that and didn't intend to imply any different. Maybe you didn't either. You said you hadn't bothered setting up a test. I have. That's all. Spacehound 1 Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 so far 12 to 1 believe that SQ above 44.1 is possible. Link to comment
diecaster Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: so far 12 to 1 believe that SQ above 44.1 is possible. Do you mean it is possible to attain better sound quality at higher sampling rates than 44.1 kHz? There really isn't any valid argument to suggest otherwise. Link to comment
mansr Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 hours ago, beerandmusic said: so far 12 to 1 believe that SQ above 44.1 is possible. According to the tally at the top of the page, it's 12 to 5. You rather confusingly listed both CD and redbook. Those are one and the same. Link to comment
mansr Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 hours ago, diecaster said: Do you mean it is possible to attain better sound quality at higher sampling rates than 44.1 kHz? There really isn't any valid argument to suggest otherwise. The argument is that we are unable to hear anything above (at most) 20 kHz. Sampling at 44.1 kHz thus allows a filter transition bandwidth of 4.1 kHz without creating any audible aliasing. Counterarguments are that these filter requirements are impossible to realise and that we might possibly, somehow be able to perceive higher frequencies. With oversampling ADCs and digital filters, the former is longer an issue, and there is precious little evidence in support of the latter. Of course, storage is cheap, so if you're even the slightest bit worried that CD resolution is insufficient, by all means go for high-res. Link to comment
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