Roon Rock on Intel NUC

[mfin]

I couldn't see a thread so thought I'd start one, regarding people's choices of the latest NUC's and builds.

 

I went for an NUC7i5BHH with a WD Green M2 (2280) 120Gb SSD for the system drive (£41), and Kingston 120Gb 2.5" SSD for flac storage (I don't use many, £45), and 2x4Gb Crucial 2133 Ram as faster Ram doesn't help.

 

Going for the i5 allowed me to go for a fanless case like the Akasa Newton S7 or Akasa Plato X7 if the default case was audibly annoying, plus of course removing the noise of a motor. Note that those cases will work with the i3 and i5 versions, but it doesn't say the i7 is supported, probably due to a touch too much heat.

 

The NUC7i5BNH has proved to have a bit of a noisy fan as I had a feeling it would, so I will move it all into a Newton S7 case at the weekend.

 

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For anyone contemplating putting one together, here's a really rough overview of things that needed to be done in layman's terms:

 

The instructions on the Roon website cover everything quite well, there's certainly enough detail if you are used to tinkering with computers. Physically installing the Ram and SSDs took no longer than 15 minutes. On the software side (with a keyboard connected and an HDMI cable into a TV) I had everything done and dusted in another 15 minutes from bios update and config through to a completed Roon Rock install.

 

Once done, unplug it all, plug in a lan cable, place it where you want and turn it on. With a Roon free trial signed up for and logged into, the rest was pretty easy.

 

For local music, remember to click the option to format the music ssd in the web interface, then point to it in the Roon app as storage. Then using any computer on the network you can access that storage drive and drag and drop your music onto it.

 

Tidal is a simple case of adding your details. A quick note is you can't search for Tidal's own playlists, but if you go into the Tidal app and search them, any that you "favourite" will show in Roon.

 

Oh, and Roon does not label which albums are Masters (big shame, but they will sort this I expect), you can browse the Masters section though of course.

 

The hardware I described as choosing boots up in just a few seconds, and runs perfectly. I am using an SOtM sMS-200ultra configured as a Roon Endpoint. Note that in order for Roon to see it as an endpoint, the Dac that the SOtM is connected to has to be turned on.

[mfin]

A couple of other notes. The upscaling in Roon sounds good to me, I would actually use it, whereas the Audirvana SoX I could have used before was something that I chose not to as it sounded too soft. Roon's doesn't.

 

That said, in Audirvana, if the file being played is MQA, it overrides the oversampling and passes it through for unfolding. Roon doesn't, it is a shame. It would be nice if Roon could upsample non-MQA files but leave the MQA ones untouched.

[mfin]

Moved the innards across into an Akasa Newton S7

 

The case says it is compatible with the NUC7i5BNH. One note about it that could fool some people is that on the underside of the motherboard there is the bios battery which is stuck with a sticky pad onto a metal shield covering one chip. It won't fit into the case with the battery standing proud there. There's a couple of dips in the case at about these points but it doesn't line up.

 

So, the battery must be pulled away and it takes the chip shield with it, then prising it off the shield, the shield can be clipped back over the chip where it was.

 

With the sticky pad remaining on the battery I stuck it to the case floor in one of the dips, then everything goes together perfectly.

 

It might be a little nerve-wracking to move one of these Nuc's into a case for someone who isn't familiar with tinkering with computers and doesn't know how hardy things or delicate things are, but it's easy enough. The case is a lot bigger than the original case of the Nuc, and is quite warm to the touch but seems to be doing it's job well so far.

[Fella55]

Thanks for you report. I also installed a NUC on Friday. I got the i3 version and the fan is inaudible. I have this feeding a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital.

 

I was interested to read your notes on installing it in the Akasa case. I hadn’t considered this but I really like the look of the Plato X7!

[mfin]

I think there's a video on youtube of someone putting one in one of the Akasa cases which shows the principle.

 

The fan on mine was niggling me, it was a bit noisy.

 

I went for the Newton over the Plato because it made more sense in my mind because the CPU is pressed against the top of the case where all the fins are. Most of the fins on the Plato are at the sides of the case. I don't know if my logic is good there, but it made some sense to me in that the cooling could be superior.

 

If you don't mind the fan noise of the original case then I suppose the other reasons for moving it can only be aesthetic and maybe it's good not to have a fan motor turning? (electrical noise? I'm just guessing at a possibility there that probably does not matter).

[Fella55]

I think your logic is sound from a cooling perspective.

 

As for fan noise, I've just put my ear right up to my i3 NUC and although I can hear it, it's very quiet and once I'm about 1 foot away I can't really hear it. Given that it's in a closed cabinet as well means that there is no audible noise from my listening position 2.5m away. I should note that I've set the cooling profile in the BIOS to "Cool" so this is likely to present the loudest cooling situation anyway.

 

So for me it would just be aesthetics to change the case. I probably won't for this build but maybe for the next if I buy the i5 version at a later date. At the moment I can't see any reason to do this as performance has been great with the i3 so far.

 

Here are some pictures of my setup.

 

 

[mfin]

You'd want space around it if using a fanless case, room for it to breathe, so you wouldn't want something on top of it or anything warm under it.

 

If you go into the bios you can turn off that "ring" led (turn it down to zero) if you find it distracting.

 

I think Roon's own advice on the i3, i5 and i7 is pretty sound, it's obvious that going over the top on ram or M2 ssd is pretty pointless, the whole thing boots in seconds. Unless you are doing stuff with Roon's DSP, I doubt the difference between different processors would ever be noticed.

 

I'd like to run some DSP Upscaling myself, but until Roon can detect an MQA file (on Tidal) and when it does so automatically override the Upscaling settings and just do a straight passthrough then I won't bother.

 

 

 

 

[Fella55]

Yes I discovered the ring LED settings in the BIOS and both the Ring and Power LED's are disabled now. Please to have been given the option, as cool as the Ring LED is, it's distracting.

 

If I was to use a fanless case I wouldn't have the NUC in the same location as I currently have it. It would have it's own shelf. As the original NUC case is the size that it is and as it matches the Pro-Ject DAC dimensions, the current spot seemed appropriate. I have some new cables arriving tomorrow so I may move them both to the spare shelf when I swap everything over. So far not had any cooling/overheating issues.

 

I'm using the i3 version as I don't plan to use the DSP in roon as one,  like you I use the MQA tracks in Tidal, and two, my Anthem Receiver does the room correction already. I'm just using 4Gb RAM and reused a 240GB SSD (dated 2012 )  I had lying around. Boot up is in seconds and I'm not noticed any severe performance issues. Sometimes Albums take a few seconds to load from Tidal but I assume this is just populating the information from the net rather than a processing problem.

 

If roon adds the MQA detection I may investigate the upsampling feature...

[Garf]

I just finished setting up my NUC 7th Gen i5 yesterday. Fast delivery from Amazon, I got it Wednesday when I ordered it over the weekend. I was also a bit annoyed with the fan. I figured it would do until my fanless case arrived.

 

I also ordered a Akasa Plato X7 at the same time, they said it would arrive March 26-April 5th. Seeing that it was coming over the pond from GB, I decided I could wait a bit. I was shocked to find a FedEx delivery person at the door with the case today, one day after receiving and assembling the NUC kit. So I disconnected things and jumped in. The instructions supplied with the case were a bit sparse, and I left the battery in place. The motherboard did have a bit of a hump at the one side by the battery, but some careful pressure seemed to set things in place. I did not check the contact of the CPU to the aluminum block on the case, due to the contact pad but I assume the computer will let me know if it is getting too warm, lol. Normally I would set the heatsink, then remove it and check for sufficient spread of the thermal paste. If good, add a bit more thermal paste and move on. 

 

One tip, the case I ordered apparently doesn't do wifi. There are antennae holes on the case, but I saw nothing about wifi in the instructions.  When disconnecting the mb from the NUC kit case, I had to remove two wires that snaked around to the top of the case. I was using wifi to control the Roon Rock server, and when I powered things up and couldn't reach it, I knew what I missed in the installation. It was easy enough to find a long network cable (read: dig in a closet for 10 mins), snake it around a tall bookshelf that was anchored to the wall (allowing me to dust the top of it, which apparently I had been neglecting for a few years), and wire up a CAT5 connection to a nearby phone jack (glad my place was wired with CAT5 cable 12 years ago).  Using a network cable also will allow a lot of flexibility in the future if I start to take advantage of the Tidal or network streaming.

 

That LED is really bright. You said that there is a BIOS setting for that? That stinks, I have to hook up a monitor and keyboard again if I wanted to turn it off. I think I will go with some sort of dimming opaque material that I can apply over the LED. 

 

Having run a headless LINUX system, as well as a CAPS system a while back, I know there will be a time soon when I will have to drag out a keyboard and monitor to fix something. Then I can disable that LED and wifi in the BIOS.

 

 

[mfin]

Here's a question that doesn't seem to be answered by any amount of googling...

 

The NUC takes 12-19v. The supplied SMPS is 19v. My thinking tells me this could be because they are easily available with the required current spec, whereas a 12v one with the increased current spec might not be.

 

So, with a Linear Power Supply, what voltage is best? Is there some logic perhaps that all voltages above 19v are dropped to 12v internally with DC-DC conversion and hence feeding 12v in the first place might potentially be better to use.

Perhaps someone with some electronic knowledge could comment? I would imagine there are several voltages needed by DC-DC conversion within the unit anyway, such as 1.2v for the Ram, 5v for the USB and HDD etc.

[Miska]

9 hours ago, mfin said:

Here's a question that doesn't seem to be answered by any amount of googling...

 

The NUC takes 12-19v. The supplied SMPS is 19v. My thinking tells me this could be because they are easily available with the required current spec, whereas a 12v one with the increased current spec might not be.

 

So, with a Linear Power Supply, what voltage is best? Is there some logic perhaps that all voltages above 19v are dropped to 12v internally with DC-DC conversion and hence feeding 12v in the first place might potentially be better to use.

Perhaps someone with some electronic knowledge could comment? I would imagine there are several voltages needed by DC-DC conversion within the unit anyway, such as 1.2v for the Ram, 5v for the USB and HDD etc.

 

As you assume, there are multiple switching regulators (sort of DC-DC converters) in NUC that generate needed voltages for various parts inside. 12V, 5V, -5V, 3.3V, 1.2V, etc. And firmware controlled adjustable regulator for CPU voltage (varies together with clock frequency depending on operating point, controlled by power management).

 

[davide256]

It's my understanding that if a lower voltage is used (voltage limiter), any excess voltage  above that will generate heat to dissipate. I wouldn't use a higher voltage supply if 12V was  all that was required

[mfin]

Just now, davide256 said:

It's my understanding that if a lower voltage is used (voltage limiter), any excess voltage  above that will generate heat to dissipate. I wouldn't use a higher voltage supply if 12V was  all that was required

 

That's sort of my thinking. If 12V is the max used internally and the process of limiting maybe could produce unnecessary noise. Dunno.

[Miska]

With switching regulators it doesn't really matter much, because those have much higher efficiency than linear ones... If the used regs don't have "boost" feature, then little bit over 12V would be good to make sure it is not too close to the regulation margin...

 

[octaviars]

Intel states in the white paper on NUC that it works with 12-19vdc.

 

I measured my NUC7i5 it has M.2 SSD for ROCK OS and second SSD for music.

This is with regular 44.1/16 no DSP

19Vdc average 0.57A (10.83W) and peak 1.5A
15Vdc average 0.69A (10.35W) and peak 2.1A
12Vdc average 0.81A (9.72W) and peak 2.8A

Average is during play to Roon endpoint. Peak was during start up.