Jump to content
IGNORED

Thiel is dead.


Recommended Posts

The new owners had no idea what they were doing. They ended production of all of Jim Thiel's wonderful designs and brought in another designer who had worked for PSB. They then threw out all of Thiel's protocols such as first-order filters, sloped cabinets, phase and time alignment. Another "me too" speaker, the new models must not have sold well.

 

IMO, Thiel made some of the best drivers available. All aluminum, they produce a very coherent sound. The coax mid/tweeter helps with time alignment - from more than one listening position - and image density. The rigid, lightweight diaphragms operate pistonically over the intended range, with the break up modes well suppressed despite the slow roll-off filters. This gives Thiels superb resolution and clarity. Soundstage's measurements of the CS2.4 are among the very best in their database - frequency response within a +/- 2 dB window from ~33-20K Hz. And very low distortion even in the mid-bass and lower midrange. Very impressive, outperforming speakers costing multiple times their price.

 

I've heard speakers from Avalon, Wilson, Revel, Vandersteen, Paradigm, Vaughn, Vivid, Aerial, B&W and many others. My CS2.4SE has nearly all of the resolution,  transparency, and neutrality of the very best I've heard (TAD Ref 1, Vandersteen 7, Avalon Ascent, Vivid Giya) - at a fraction of the price. If Jim Thiel had tweaked his passive parts the way that, say, Dave Wilson does, his designs would probably be among the best ever. The Clarity caps in the SE version of 2.4 makes a nice improvement. I plan to upgrade the other passive parts at some point. I'm pretty sure these are my last speakers. Fully tricked-out, I suspect they'll sound as good as anything new up to $20K or, even, $30K.

 

Folks reporting "cool" or "bright" sound from Thiels have probably not heard them properly set-up or with poorly-matched electronics.

 

RIP Thiel.

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

Link to comment
On 27/01/2018 at 5:32 PM, beetlemania said:

The new owners had no idea what they were doing. They ended production of all of Jim Thiel's wonderful designs and brought in another designer who had worked for PSB. They then threw out all of Thiel's protocols such as first-order filters, sloped cabinets, phase and time alignment. Another "me too" speaker, the new models must not have sold well.

 

IMO, Thiel made some of the best drivers available. All aluminum, they produce a very coherent sound. The coax mid/tweeter helps with time alignment - from more than one listening position - and image density. The rigid, lightweight diaphragms operate pistonically over the intended range, with the break up modes well suppressed despite the slow roll-off filters. This gives Thiels superb resolution and clarity. Soundstage's measurements of the CS2.4 are among the very best in their database - frequency response within a +/- 2 dB window from ~33-20K Hz. And very low distortion even in the mid-bass and lower midrange. Very impressive, outperforming speakers costing multiple times their price.

 

I've heard speakers from Avalon, Wilson, Revel, Vandersteen, Paradigm, Vaughn, Vivid, Aerial, B&W and many others. My CS2.4SE has nearly all of the resolution,  transparency, and neutrality of the very best I've heard (TAD Ref 1, Vandersteen 7, Avalon Ascent, Vivid Giya) - at a fraction of the price. If Jim Thiel had tweaked his passive parts the way that, say, Dave Wilson does, his designs would probably be among the best ever. The Clarity caps in the SE version of 2.4 makes a nice improvement. I plan to upgrade the other passive parts at some point. I'm pretty sure these are my last speakers. Fully tricked-out, I suspect they'll sound as good as anything new up to $20K or, even, $30K.

 

Folks reporting "cool" or "bright" sound from Thiels have probably not heard them properly set-up or with poorly-matched electronics.

 

RIP Thiel.

 

In my opinion mixing aluminium drivers and first order crossovers is a recipe for disaster. And the audible advantages of phase coherence, which is only possible in a single point, are not considered relevant for the largest majority of designers.

 

It would be interesting to know if the new designer was the real reason for the downfall of the company.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, semente said:

 

In my opinion mixing aluminium drivers and first order crossovers is a recipe for disaster. And the audible advantages of phase coherence, which is only possible in a single point, are not considered relevant for the largest majority of designers.

 

It would be interesting to know if the new designer was the real reason for the downfall of the company.

 

Quite the opposite of a disaster in my room, thanks.  As I wrote, I'm getting nearly all of the neutrality and resolution of the very best I have heard, and without any apparent coloration. My CS2.4s have no audible bass below ~30 cycles but I've only sampled one song - with organ tones - wherein that limitation was apparent. Image density is not on par with the very best I've heard. But those are the only weaknesses I'm hearing.

 

Have you heard Thiels? If yes, which model and with what electronics. Did you think the room was appropriately set-up?

 

Yes, most designers do it differently. There are many approaches, all with trade-offs. There is no "right" way to do it. If there were, all speakers would share that recipe.

 

IMO, the decision to throw out Thiel's recipe was a poor one. Why even keep the Thiel name a that point? Just another "me too" product and Thiels customer base was kicked to the curb.

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

 

Quite the opposite of a disaster in my room, thanks.  As I wrote, I'm getting nearly all of the neutrality and resolution of the very best I have heard, and without any apparent coloration. My CS2.4s have no audible bass below ~30 cycles but I've only sampled one song - with organ tones - wherein that limitation was apparent. Image density is not on par with the very best I've heard. But those are the only weaknesses I'm hearing.

 

Have you heard Thiels? If yes, which model and with what electronics. Did you think the room was appropriately set-up?

 

Yes, most designers do it differently. There are many approaches, all with trade-offs. There is no "right" way to do it. If there were, all speakers would share that recipe.

 

IMO, the decision to throw out Thiel's recipe was a poor one. Why even keep the Thiel name a that point? Just another "me too" product and Thiels customer base was kicked to the curb.

 

When I lived in Macau I used to listen often to a friend's system which consisted of Proceed digital source, Mark Levinson amplification and a pair of CS3.6s. More recently I have listened at shows and a distributor who stocked EMM, ML and Revel. I can't remember if I ever listened to the 3.7.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

 

HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...