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iZotope vs SoX Upsampling in Audirvana Plus 3.2


buonassi

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I am trying out some of these settings to see what is the best and decided to give converting to DSD a go.  I have a PS Audio Direct Stream. When I select auto detect DSD the DSD grays out as an option to send to the DS. If I select send packed as USB 1.0 or USB 1.1 you get the option, but it doesn’t work - instead the DAC says PCM 176 and nothing comes out.

 

On the DS forum they say go to the Audirvana forum - isn't that just maddening.   Who knows whats going on but if you ask the DAC maker - its Audirvana's fault.  Hopefully here wont do - its your fault - no its your fault type rubbish.  One even said - download the Windows drivers ?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks
Bill

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Try chosing dsd over pcm 1.1 and not auto detect

If You Got Ears, You Gotta ListenCaptain Beefheart

 

MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin >

Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series >

Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13

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9 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

Try chosing dsd over pcm 1.1 and not auto detect

Think that was tried, as per above?

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

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10 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

Those are with Izotope, not SoX ?

 

I selected SoX in the Converter field (see image), is there another setting I missed that I need to set?

2012 Mac Mini, Mac Sierra OS, Audirvana 3.x, WireWorld Ultraviolet 7 USB Interconnect, Benchmark DAC2 L, Wireworld Equinox 7 Balanced XLR Interconnect, Belles 350A Amp, DIY Speaker Cables (18 strands of 22awg wire in circular array), DIY Carver Ribbon Speakers & Dayton Woofers

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9 minutes ago, audiocanyon said:

 

I selected SoX in the Converter field (see image), is there another setting I missed that I need to set?

 

Yes, select Izotope in the converter, not SoX

If You Got Ears, You Gotta ListenCaptain Beefheart

 

MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin >

Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series >

Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13

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10 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

Those are with Izotope, not SoX ?

 

Oh, you meant the settings i was trying to replicate were Izotope, not SoX.  Not sure how I missed that in Hoshi's comment.

2012 Mac Mini, Mac Sierra OS, Audirvana 3.x, WireWorld Ultraviolet 7 USB Interconnect, Benchmark DAC2 L, Wireworld Equinox 7 Balanced XLR Interconnect, Belles 350A Amp, DIY Speaker Cables (18 strands of 22awg wire in circular array), DIY Carver Ribbon Speakers & Dayton Woofers

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10 hours ago, RunHomeSlow said:

Try chosing dsd over pcm 1.1 and not auto detect

 

Sure that lets me select DSD up-sampling but it doesn't work.   The DAC displays PCM 176 and at 100% volume you get a very low level very highly distorted sound - but at normal volume level you get nothing.

 

Thanks

Bill

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46 minutes ago, bhobba said:

Sure that lets me select DSD up-sampling but it doesn't work.   The DAC displays PCM 176 and at 100% volume you get a very low level very highly distorted sound - but at normal volume level you get nothing.

That's what DoP sounds like if played as PCM. For some reason, the DAC isn't detecting the DoP signal.

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3 hours ago, mansr said:

That's what DoP sounds like if played as PCM. For some reason, the DAC isn't detecting the DoP signal.

 

Since it was displaying PCM 176 I sort of figured that.

 

I think some kind of control information is being mucked up somehow - I suspect the DAC is not recognizing it from Audirvana.   But since others have got it working - see post Bybuonassi something is wrong with somewhere.

 

There are a number of posinilities

 

1.   I haven't upgraded to Redcloud yet - need to put into a Redcloud machine.

2.  Try it into another DAC that does  DSD and see what happens.

3.  Report it as an official fault to PS audio and see what they say. 

 

Why does it have to be this hard?

 

Anyway I also have a DS Junior but its down at my dealers right now - will see how that goes.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

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  • 6 months later...

any new comments on Sox vs iZotope sonic characteristics?  I've recently gotten back into upsampling and have decided to give linear phase / fast rolloff a good month of listening before switching back to NOS/Min phase options.

 

I like both Sox and iZotope for different reasons, and not really sure one algorithm is better than another - they both perform interpolation well. 

 

I wonder if @mansr would be willing to do some measurements for similar settings of these two converters?  Bandpass and transition zoom FR I'm not that interested in.  And since we'd keep it linear phase, no sense in measuring that.  But, which yields the lowest distortion:  Harmonic, odd order, IMD.    

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11 hours ago, buonassi said:

any new comments on Sox vs iZotope sonic characteristics?  I've recently gotten back into upsampling and have decided to give linear phase / fast rolloff a good month of listening before switching back to NOS/Min phase options.

 

I like both Sox and iZotope for different reasons, and not really sure one algorithm is better than another - they both perform interpolation well. 

 

I wonder if @mansr would be willing to do some measurements for similar settings of these two converters?  Bandpass and transition zoom FR I'm not that interested in.  And since we'd keep it linear phase, no sense in measuring that.  But, which yields the lowest distortion:  Harmonic, odd order, IMD.    

A FIR filter cannot exhibit non-linear distortion. Since you're not interested in frequency response, that leaves nothing to analyse.

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Sorry, what I meant was I wasn't interested in seeing the FR as an indicator of bandpass response (IE any ripple) or how sharply it rolls off (transition).  That's what I meant.  Should've been more explicit.  

 

I am of course interested in how the low level distortion measures in the frequency domain.  Or are you saying there's none of that that can be attributed to the FIR filter?

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5 hours ago, buonassi said:

Sorry, what I meant was I wasn't interested in seeing the FR as an indicator of bandpass response (IE any ripple) or how sharply it rolls off (transition).  That's what I meant.  Should've been more explicit.  

 

I am of course interested in how the low level distortion measures in the frequency domain.  Or are you saying there's none of that that can be attributed to the FIR filter?

Right, a FIR filter is a linear system. There can be no non-linear distortion (harmonic, intermodulation, etc). The frequency response, which is the Fourier transform of the impulse response, says all there is to know.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all, it’s a long time ago I posted on the forum. I was mainly improving the hardware of my music system and now that I have done that it’s time to work on the software again. I love A+ and look forward to the new release. 

 

I’m still using A+ 3.2.14 with OS X El Capitan (10.11.6) and thus can use direct mode without changing the OS. I wonder if I should upgrade the OS at the expense of not using direct mode anymore (I will not jailbreak the OS).

 

Does direct mode still make a remarkable difference? Is a newer OS necessary for security reasons or can I just keep on using it? I mainly use the MBP for my music, emails and internet. 

 

Thanks for your response. 

Wim

Kind regards/met vriendelijke groeten,

Wim
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the 'hack' doesn't jailbreak the OS - and it is a reversible hack.  Actually, it self corrects with each iterative OS update you do.  The only threat is if you use a audio settings kext file that is corrupt.  You can copy your current el capitan kext file and use it (knowing it's not laden with malware) when you perform the hack.  

 

It took me about 25 minutes to do and wasn't really difficult.  

 

And, yes, I believe the direct mode is worth it if you plan on transporting via USB to a bridge converter or a DAC.  Of course, just my opinion. I haven't updated my mac in over a year because I enjoy the sound so much after achieving direct mode. 

 

In terms of consequences of not updating you OS?  I'm not sure if el capitan is still supported - probably not.  There's probably not a lot of active development for patching exploits caused by holes in other software that resides on the machine. 

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1 hour ago, buonassi said:

And, yes, I believe the direct mode is worth it if you plan on transporting via USB to a bridge converter or a DAC.  Of course, just my opinion. I haven't updated my mac in over a year because I enjoy the sound so much after achieving direct mode. 

 

In terms of consequences of not updating you OS?  I'm not sure if el capitan is still supported - probably not.  There's probably not a lot of active development for patching exploits caused by holes in other software that resides on the machine. 

 

Thank you Buonassi. I recently switched from Toslink to a Berkeley Audio Design USB converter and I’m very happy with the sound. I will experiment a bit further with the USB and AES-EBU cables but even with the cheap cables I use now it’s already a huge improvement. It gave me the same experience of improvement as when I changed to Crystalspeak Reference Diamond cables for the speakers. I just don’t know how much direct mode/El Capitan adds to that experience.

 

Apple isn’t forcing me to update El Capitan yet. I assume that if there’s a major leakage they would?

 

Any other experiences from forum members?

Kind regards/met vriendelijke groeten,

Wim
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15 hours ago, Endoxx Omega said:

Apple isn’t forcing me to update El Capitan yet. I assume that if there’s a major leakage they would?

I have to believe they'd warn you about it.  I think you can check this article at minimum - it's written by folks who know a lot more about it than I do

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/350901/which-releases-of-macos-are-supported-with-security-updates/

 

hope this helps and welcome to the forum.  we need more 'signal to noise' ratio here from good posters.  be one of them PLEASE!  

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I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping your machine on El Capitan if you use it only for music... However, if you use it for other things then I would definitely upgrade the OS to High Sierra rather than Mojave at this point for the security.

 

The hack is super simple and as mentioned above, reversible. In my experience it makes a significant positive difference in the sound quality.

No electron left behind.

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10 hours ago, buonassi said:

 

According to that article and the Apple security information they guide you to the last updates for El Capitan were 9 July 2018 which seems to make sense since after that date Mojave came out and apparently they only support the latest three versions which is now Sierra, High Sierra and Mojave. So unfortunately EL Capitan is not supported anymore. 

 

8 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

However, if you use it for other things then I would definitely upgrade the OS to High Sierra rather than Mojave at this point for the security.

 

The hack is super simple and as mentioned above, reversible. In my experience it makes a significant positive difference in the sound quality.

 

I think you are right that I have to upgrade. Why High Sierra and not Mojave?

 

I will need to find out first how to do the hack if it makes such significant positive difference. I don’t like doing that though since (i) Apple didn’t close that access for nothing I assume, so malware may take advantage of that hack too and (ii) I’m afraid of messing up with my system. But the significantly better sound is tempting. 

Kind regards/met vriendelijke groeten,

Wim
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High Sierra has the bugs worked out, Mojave is still maturing, that's the only reason.

 

The hack, done correctly, does not nor can it be used to, create a vector for malware. All you are doing is replacing one apple kext with another apple kext.

 

Read the directions, read them again, and follow them exactly.

No electron left behind.

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Search for content posted by @RunHomeSlow  .  He has by far the most experience and awesome detail outlining how to do direct mode hack

 

Actually I have invoked his name many times now and hate to keep bothering him. If he can supply the link to the instructions I’ll make sure to bookmark it this time I promise

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Hi RunHomeSlow,

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

Have tried downloading the file you posted for high Sierra (https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/AudirvanaHighSierraDirectMode.zip?role=personal) but I keep getting the following message "The folder /public/.... does not exist" and there is no option to download the file. 

 

Thanks

Hardware / Mac mini 2012 > Wadia di122 > Arcam FMJ A22 (upgraded) > Tannoy XT8

Software / Audirvana and ROON

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