Innuos Zenith SE MkII

[limniscate]

@austinpop and I haven't been able to get that configuration to work yet.

[rickca]

7 minutes ago, limniscate said:

@austinpop and I haven't been able to get that configuration to work yet.

What problems have you encountered?  And what modes have you tried (Roon, DLNA/MPD, LMS).

[limniscate]

We can't see the DAC when we try using the Innuos SE to sMS-200.  We were trying it on Roon.  I'm don't think we've tried it on the internal player.  However, we have tried the internal player in other configurations.

[austinpop]

It's a connectivity issue of some kind. Whenever we've tried attaching anything to the "streamer" ethernet port of the SE, we've not been successful getting music to flow. 

 

I'm sure it's a solvable problem, and probably isn't helped by the extra switches we're playing with - Netgear for shunting, and the reclocked switch. At some point, I might circle back and troubleshoot it, but it's not high on my list.

 

I'd rather see how the SE can simplify the chain compared to a trifecta, while elevating SQ. A tall order? Yes - but for a component of this price, a reasonable expectation.

[ElviaCaprice]

Or cheaper yet, the sCLK-EX server, you pick the mobo.  For about 1/4 to 1/3 the price, depending on quality power source.  I must be beginning to sound like a broken record.  LOL

 

So what did Roy think of the comparison between the two, sCLK-EX server and Innuos SE?  He must have liked the Innuos to get you to spend so much for it.

[ADCO]

On 1/20/2018 at 1:08 PM, austinpop said:

Yes, there are some minefields in getting Roon up and running on the Zenith. There are actually 3 logical stages to this:

1. Physically copy music over to the Zenith SE's internal SSD
2. Bring up Roon correctly on the Zenith SE, by restoring from a database backup of your existing Core
3. Fixup the music location under Roon > Settings > Storage

Do the following first, on your existing Roon Core server:

• Make a backup to something you can access on the SE - a network share, or even a USB stick.
• Go to Roon > Settings > Storage and note down where your music is currently stored.
• Let's assume your current Roon Core is on a Windows machine named WinRoon, and your music is in E:\MyMusicLib

Let't take each in turn.

1. Physically copy music over to the Zenith SE's internal SSD
   • The key pitfall here is to avoid the Auto-Import at all costs!
   • On the machine WinRoon, open the Zenith network share, and copy the folder MyMusicLib into the Music folder on the Zenith
2. Bring up Roon correctly on the Zenith SE, by restoring from a database backup of your existing Core
   • See https://kb.roonlabs.com/Migration
   • It's really useful to do it this way
3. Fixup the music location under Roon > Settings > Storage
   • You'll see the previous location you had there - [E:] MyMusicLib is broken. Right click and "Disable" it.
   • The Roon Core on Zenith will already have the Music folder enabled by default.
   • This should work. I say should, because in my case, my music was on a NAS. This was much cleaner and easier to bring up.
   • After the restore, I went to the NAS link in Storage, and selected Edit, then Browse. Since my NAS requires login creds, I had to essentially recreate the storage path to my music folder on my NAS.
   • Since then I have been selectively moving a few albums over into the Music folder, to assess "local vs. NAS" performance, but I have not yet done a wholesale copy of my (1.7TB) library over.
   • Advanced tip: by default Innuous locks you out of setting any other local storage location in Roon, but upon request, they can open up other folders for you.

In summary, don't be afraid to start over, using the steps above. It should go a lot cleaner.

 

Sorry for the slow reply on this and thank you BTW....

 

I did a remote service with Nuno ( the main man at Innuos) and he sorted it out in his code not in Roon...appears to be flawless now

     I tell you what to a computer illiterate like myself these guys have champion service.....I say this in response to the poster who feels compelled to assert that he could build this for 1/3 the cost....thats maybe true ,maybe not but I can say for certain that I cannot...nor would I commission someone to do so and forgo the service guarantee ....

   I can say with absolution that I can build him a house for roughly a half of what it would cost him off the same blueprints but I have seen so many people try and ultimately fall on their face....and then call me, a builder . Those people needed a pro...not to say everyone does but I wouldnt go on a DIY board and say how easy it is to build a home/addition/reno and that if you do it yourself you save 50%....

just saying

 

[yellowblue]

It´s possible that all of the MK2 SE are sold now. I just ordered one and my dealer told me that he got the last one for me. I need to wait until end of february to get it shipped to me. Should be fun - with tx-USBultra and DAVE.

[BigAlMc]

10 minutes ago, yellowblue said:

It´s possible that all of the MK2 SE are sold now. I just ordered one and my dealer told me that he got the last one for me. I need to wait until end of february to get it shipped to me. Should be fun - with tx-USBultra and DAVE.

 

Congrats on your purchase!

 

I'm 62/100 and loving mine! Should be worth the wait.

[yellowblue]

Even if it crazy much money for a server - it was impossible for me to find a better one-box-solution with Roon, Ethernet and USB-out (futureproof) and harddisk. 

[austinpop]

My review of the Zenith MkII SE is over on this thread.

[BigAlMc]

Thanks @austinpop for the great review and that comparison with the SoTM Trifecta we're all been so interested in. Slightly less thanks though for adding substance to the theory that I might need a TX-USBultra too in order to really hear what the SE can do with USB! Dagnabbit!

[BigAlMc]

So I found myself in the unusual position of having both Zenith MKII and a Zenith SE in the home and naturally I was curious to hear how they compared.

 

 

The backstory is that my previous server died on me and at the time I was already following Romaz's experience with the SE and Darkos review which had the SE on my wishlist. I took it as an omen, tried to pull the trigger but was told at the start of December that it would be late January before my SE arrived. This was not an acceptable situation so after pondering and discussing with a couple Innuos dealers I arranged a deal where I'd effectively get an MKII as a loaner until the SE arrived. I'm taking a small hit on returning the MKII but that was worthwhile to me.

 

Anyway the SE arrived earlier than expected and after giving it a few hundred hours burn-in I tackled A-B-ing them on Thursday. But this raised a few methodology questions.

 

1. I'm a Roon user normally but my license and setup would not allow me to have Roon Core running on two servers at the same time.
2. The MKII & SE sound best when plugged directly into the DAC by Ethernet or USB. But swapping cable continuously and the lengthy gaps make it harder to hear the differences.

I therefore settled on this configuration:

 

Both the MKII and SE running Upnp server. Both connected to my AQVOX switch via their LAN ports. The AQVOX switch then connected to my Directstream DAC via the Bridge II ethernet connection. Both servers plugged into my IsoTek Sigmas power conditioner. And Ghent 'JSSG' 1 metre ethernet cables for all three connections to/from the switch. I hoped that this was the most level playing field I could manage.

 

Then using BubbleUpnp app on my phone I was able to select the server I wanted and flip between each to play the same track.

 

 

Thursday conclusion: The MKII is very, very good but the SE is just better. Better how is hard to describe. The both have a very similar sound profile. The 'Dynamism', 'calmness' and 'richness' that Rajiv so eloquently describes on his review is present in the characteristics of both players sound. Likewise the 'grip and authority' that Romaz describes over at Head-fi is also evident. The SE is just more - I struggle for a word that does it justice but am going to settle on - delicious. There is more gravel and breath in the vocals, more timbre in the strings and a darker background. I'm not doing it justice. But the SE just sounds more delicious.

 

But here is the rub. The MKII (at a very more reasonable price point) is also delicious. Just not as delicious as the SE.

 

Part two - Friday & Saturday conclusions.

 

I then started worrying that both servers connected to the switch and the switch connected to the DAC was not the ideal way to really compare them. Because even the highly rated AQVOX switch might be impacting the SQ. So I bit the proverbial bullet and decided to test by removing cables and plugging each server directly to the DAC.

 

Side note - does anyone else find those Ghent cables a pain (literally) to detach. My thumb is still throbbing! 

 

The conclusion was the same but more so. The Zeniths defo sound better going directly into my Directstream via ethernet rather than via a switch. As Romaz said in his review he thinks this is essentially the same 'bridged' trick that instigated his epic post where Austinpop put his review. The MKII was still very, very good. The SE was just more delicious. 

 

Ditto for swapping the USB cable. In the case the Phasure Lush cable from MKII to SE. This was harder to test as my DS didn't seem impressed and I kept having to power-cycle it as it kept refusing to play the next track when connected to a new server. But the results were the same. The MKII was great. The SE was greater 

 

Final conclusions:

 

A> If I had not heard or heard of the SE then I would be very happy with my MKII

B> For the money the MKII is stonkingly good value and well worth consideration

C> For those less concerned about their wallets and wanting a simple TOTL setup then the SE is well worth consideration.

 

I guess the caveat to C is that it looks like they are all sold. But given the stellar reviews and reception it's hard not to imagine Innuos doing something similar in the near future. MKIII, differently configured SE etc.

 

For me, mine is defo a keeper and I need to arrange for UPS to collect and return the MKII to the dealer.

 

Anyway - I hope this long ramble is helpful. I'm hoping that I'm nearing my end-game for the next few years at least because the SQ I'm getting now is terrific and digital is finally sounding how it should.  Famous last words obviously!!

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

 

[firedog]

8 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

I guess the caveat to C is that it looks like they are all sold. But given the stellar reviews and reception it's hard not to imagine Innuos doing something similar in the near future. MKIII, differently configured SE etc.

Yes, if they really plan on limiting production to 100,  and they feel that it was worthwhile economically, then they can come out with a new "flagship" - The Zenith Mk III or Zenith Ultimate SE.  I'd guess it depends on whether they feel the 100 pieces made enough profit to have a new item in the line, and if they get feedback that there's still a market for a significant number of expensive pieces (sounds like there is). 

 

Of course, they can also do what many companies do: just decide that it was such a success they "have to" make more.

[BigAlMc]

Back by dope demand! 

[yellowblue]

It´s a bit ironic that the SE sold out just some hours before the very positiv reviews of @austinpop and @BigAIMC. But I am very sure that Innuos has something in their pipeline to meet the expectations coming up after the SE. By the way - I decided to order the (last available) SE after contacting Sean about a possible way to upgrade the MKII.  We couldn´t find a valid way to do that by now (even if it would not be impossible to do). I was also asking him about an off-board PSU, but he wrote that this would compromise the performance of the MKII.

[BigAlMc]

23 hours ago, yellowblue said:

Even if it crazy much money for a server - it was impossible for me to find a better one-box-solution with Roon, Ethernet and USB-out (futureproof) and harddisk. 

 

Hi Yellowblue, 

 

Your latest post caused me to revisit your last couple and I'm going to agree and disagree. 

 

Agree - 5k+ (I'm dealing in sterling and given its a European product the American cousins can do the math as they say (it's not math by the way, it's mathematics but I digress)). 5k+ is crazy for a server. No doubt. 

 

BUT. 

 

When I spent 5k on my Directstream DAC (which according to all the reviews was amazing. And really is) I discovered there was still something missing. 

 

I've been on a long complicated journey since then but here is my main item of wisdom earned:

 

There is only so much that the DAC, whatever DAC it is,  can do. It might be a truly wondrous but of technology but it's not immune to the source. 

 

I'm not for a second advocating that everyone needs to spend 5k each on DAC and Server. I am however suggesting that ratio of DAC:Server spend of 10:1 or even 5:1 deserves much closer scrutiny 

 

Just my biased 2 cents. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[Advieira]

How do you guys compare SQ from Innuos Zenith MkII or MkII SE to a proper Mac Mini Mod (MMK, Good LPS, running system from 300mb/s SXDC Card, internal SSD) serving as Roon Core to a SMS-200Ultra or Ultra Rendu?

[noel.gregoire]

Hi all, 

after reading all the comments about Innuos a MK II is ordered... the supplyer will install ROON on it ... and all will be connected to a Bricasti M5 ... 

no doubt it 'll be a real enthousiam listening music.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, noel.gregoire said:

Hi all, 

after reading all the comments about Innuos a MK II is ordered... the supplyer will install ROON on it ... and all will be connected to a Bricasti M5 ... 

no doubt it 'll be a real enthousiam listening music.

Good for you. Will be interested if you do a comparison of it with and without the Bricasti. Innous seems to think it is better without the streamer there, direct from the HD. 

[noel.gregoire]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

Good for you. Will be interested if you do a comparison of it with and without the Bricasti. Innous seems to think it is better without the streamer there, direct from the HD. 

well it'll be difficult cause i can't go directly with USB into the dac as there is a room corrector (Trinnov ST2 hifi) in between and i can only go through SPDIF or AES .... so only 3 possibilities 

 

1- remove the trinnov and go to the DAC through USB ( no way the trinnov is doing so good job)

2- go to the trinnov through  USB-SPDIF interface

3-use a streamer connected to the trinnov .

 

i do believe 3 will give better results than 2 (no consideration of costs...)

 

 

[MarkS]

On 1/29/2018 at 9:55 PM, Advieira said:

How do you guys compare SQ from Innuos Zenith MkII or MkII SE to a proper Mac Mini Mod (MMK, Good LPS, running system from 300mb/s SXDC Card, internal SSD) serving as Roon Core to a SMS-200Ultra or Ultra Rendu?

 

I’ve been wondering the exact same thing. 

[onlychild]

For anyone interested, I needed to cancel my Innuos Zenith SE order so my dealer, Audio Doctor, has one left with no wait time (actually just received it today from Innuos). He is one of the authorized dealers in the U.S. found on Innuos's website.

You can reach him at http://www.audiodoctor.com/index.html

[mikicasellas]

11 hours ago, noel.gregoire said:

Hi all, 

after reading all the comments about Innuos a MK II is ordered... the supplyer will install ROON on it ... and all will be connected to a Bricasti M5 ... 

no doubt it 'll be a real enthousiam listening music.

 

Funny i am demoing the Bricasti M5 right now and i am wondering if getting the MKII would be a better than the M5, iam between one of those two choices, never thought the option of combining them only compare them to see which one is better..

[BigAlMc]

On 1/30/2018 at 2:55 AM, Advieira said:

How do you guys compare SQ from Innuos Zenith MkII or MkII SE to a proper Mac Mini Mod (MMK, Good LPS, running system from 300mb/s SXDC Card, internal SSD) serving as Roon Core to a SMS-200Ultra or Ultra Rendu?

 

In the absence of a more relevant data point I'll offer mine. Alas no experience of Mac Mini, SMS-200Ultra or Ultra Rendu.

 

Closest I can offer is to my MicroRendu (1.4 upgrade) so almost the UltraRendu but not quite. Which I further enhanced with ISO Regen and an SU-1. And the MKII versus these three combined (all powered by LPS-1s) is no contest in favour of the MKII. The SE is obviously even further ahead.

[firedog]

1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

 

Funny i am demoing the Bricasti M5 right now and i am wondering if getting the MKII would be a better than the M5, iam between one of those two choices, never thought the option of combining them only compare them to see which one is better..

What do you think of the M5? Compared to your present source chain?