ElviaCaprice Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 hours ago, LarryMagoo said: When you add what you can learn from the Roon community....nothing else compares.....Their staff is incredibly helpful with getting the best from Roon. Plus they don't rest on their laurels either....always looking to make improvements to their technologies as well as incorporating many suggestions from their customers. Sounds the same as JRiver to me. Same, but not hosing you for $$$$. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
Popular Post ednaz Posted January 5, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2018 On the cost of Roon... I admit that was one issue for me - one among many initially and one now when I was listening to the free trial and thinking, damn this is good. My extremely significant other leaned hard on me about that by running me through other things we "subscribe" to... Adobe takes $20 a month out of my pocket for use of their photo editing software. I pay another imaging software vendor about $140 a year. Linked In hits me each month. Netflix takes their monthly bite, Amazon Prime their annual bite. My Roku is full of ways to hand over $10-20 a month to someone. I send money to NPR, PBS, Radio Paradise a couple times a year. Then there's the backup service for my music library, and another for my phone. When she then started to pull up the bank accounts to look at what I spend on HD downloads... I ran screaming from the room with my fingers in my ears... and bought Roon for the year, along with Tidal. If that combo cuts my HD downloads in half, it's a hell of a deal. I'm still keeping JRiver, and keeping it current. It's just so convenient for my laptop traveling (four different laptops), and it's my fall back if some day I have to choose between Roon and dog food for dinner. DuckToller, Walcascar, The Computer Audiophile and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment
vortecjr Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Did you vote for JRiver? SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | endPoint | opticalModule DX | Power Supplies | Link to comment
Summit Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 2018-01-05 at 5:36 PM, ElviaCaprice said: The media player, via bit perfect stream, should never sound different SQ wise regardless of choice of software. If it is then you got other server/streaming issues. So your really paying for features in Roon. Which is fine, I get it. For myself, JRiver has all the features I desire and then some over Roon at a far more reasonable cost. Bit perfect is by itself no guarantee for good sound. If you can’t hear any sound different between different software your ear or setup is not very revealing IMO. Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Summit said: Bit perfect is by itself no guarantee for good sound. If you can’t hear any sound different between different software your ear or setup is not very revealing IMO. If you have poor clocking/power, thus not very revealing, then yes, you can notice slight differences in software. Superior clocking/power means very revealing. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
Summit Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said: If you have poor clocking/power, thus not very revealing, then yes, you can notice slight differences in software. Superior clocking/power means very revealing. Do you mean that it’s easier to hear difference with poorer clocks and power? Your reasoning is very strange. Link to comment
One and a half Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 06/01/2018 at 12:36 AM, ElviaCaprice said: The media player, via bit perfect stream, should never sound different SQ wise regardless of choice of software. If it is then you got other server/streaming issues. So your really paying for features in Roon. Which is fine, I get it. For myself, JRiver has all the features I desire and then some over Roon at a far more reasonable cost. What you need to remember that bit perfect comes with a caveat of signal integrity. The bits get through but what else rides on those bits is what affects what you hear from an electrical perspective. JRiver has towed that line long enough bit perfect yadayada, their DSP has misgivings that alter what you hear, compared to Roon or HQplayer. ive listened to JRiver for close to 2 years and recently tried Roon and enjoy what I hear. The option is open to use HQplayer for directly connected DACs that aren’t networkable which the closed mind of JRiver could not accomplish. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, One and a half said: What you need to remember that bit perfect comes with a caveat of signal integrity. The bits get through but what else rides on those bits is what affects what you hear from an electrical perspective. JRiver has towed that line long enough bit perfect yadayada, their DSP has misgivings that alter what you hear, compared to Roon or HQplayer. ive listened to JRiver for close to 2 years and recently tried Roon and enjoy what I hear. The option is open to use HQplayer for directly connected DACs that aren’t networkable which the closed mind of JRiver could not accomplish. I am fully aware that bit perfect is basically no more than saying, no resampling. What you need to understand is that it's not the media player that is the problem. It's as you say from an electrical/timing perspective in the stream caused by the hardware, not the software. The more noisy the system hardware, the more the software tweaking makes a different coloration. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
Popular Post skatbelt Posted January 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2018 I really don't get al the whining about the costs of Roon. We spend thousands of dollars on hardware (even on cables alone) but when it comes to something intangible as software or digital music files, everyone seems to want a cheap ride. Roon is an important element in my music chain and I think it's price is really, really fair. It brings me unsurpassed SQ, very good music management, multi-device usage, seamless Tidal integration and all the DSP functions I need. And - not unimportant - it always works! So, for me, a rightful winner. R1200CL, LarryMagoo, jhwalker and 1 other 4 Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, balanced) | Uptone Audio EtherREGEN + Ferrum Hypsos | Sonore OpticalModule + Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 | Jensen CI-1RR Cables Jorma Digital XLR (digital), Grimm Audio SQM RCA (analog), Kimber 8TC + WBT (speakers), custom star-quad with Oyaide connectors (AC), Ferrum (DC) and Ghent (ethernet) Software dCS Mosaic | Tidal | Qobuz Link to comment
RussL Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 You’re in the wrong hobby if $10 per month is too much money. LarryMagoo 1 Link to comment
Johnseye Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 7:51 AM, The Computer Audiophile said: Products didn’t have to be originally released in 2017. For example Roon was originally released years ago, but that shouldn’t stop people from making it product of the year. Was this clarified in the poll? I don't recall. If year of release doesn't matter then Roon could win every year. Had I known year didn't matter I would have voted for the PC or personal computer. TCP/IP and ethernet would have been a close second. Actually, now that I think about it, the Internet would have been my #1 vote...or electricity. This may sound cheeky but I'm serious and just pointing out that the poll should be limited to products released in that year, and Bob's your uncle. Audio System Link to comment
Johnseye Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/5/2018 at 11:33 AM, firedog said: It's all a matter of perspective. With JRiver you pay small amounts incrementally to upgrade. Over time that will also add up. I really like Roon, paid for the lifetime, and every year it "gets cheaper" and adds more features etc. If it stays around for 10 years it will have cost me $50 a year, which seems reasonable to me. I have weeks where I spend that much on downloads. I have both as a disclaimer. For the $500 cost of Roon I could have the latest version of JRiver for 17 years. To me it's not about the money, it's about functionality. Both applications serve different purposes. Audio System Link to comment
Johnseye Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 1:28 PM, One and a half said: What you need to remember that bit perfect comes with a caveat of signal integrity. The bits get through but what else rides on those bits is what affects what you hear from an electrical perspective. JRiver has towed that line long enough bit perfect yadayada, their DSP has misgivings that alter what you hear, compared to Roon or HQplayer. ive listened to JRiver for close to 2 years and recently tried Roon and enjoy what I hear. The option is open to use HQplayer for directly connected DACs that aren’t networkable which the closed mind of JRiver could not accomplish. There are pros and cons of each. For one, it is possible to use HQPlayer with JRiver. There's a thread about it here somewhere. I don't find the folks at JRiver being closed minded. They have their own priorities just like Roon. For example, I can stream my music library from JRiver anywhere because they provide the ability to assign a TCP port and an app which will connect to the server. I can be listening to my library in my car and at work through JRiver. Not through Roon. Roon chokes on the large number of albums I have. An artist with several hundred albums causes Roon to stutter and freeze. This doesn't happen with JRiver. I can easily mass edit metadata with JRiver. I wouldn't waste my time with metadata in Roon, it's incredibly cumbersome. All that said, I use Roon because I like the interface and reading lyrics or info about the music or band. JRiver has some catch up work to do there, but if it does it would be better than Roon for the reasons I listed. Audio System Link to comment
Popular Post Johnseye Posted January 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 12:17 AM, austinpop said: Given the number of first (and only) post voters, and the shenanigans you detected from manufacturers, you’ll forgive me for being highly skeptical of these results. In any case, does anyone really trust internet polls? I'm disappointed no SOtM products won. This was very surprising to me, but I think I know why. Despite SOtM products having a more positive impact on my SQ than anything else that won, they are not as well advertised and maybe a little more niche. For example, the SR7 will never win, but it is hands down the best PSU I've used. Not only does a product have to be good, it has to be widely adopted. ElviaCaprice and LTG2010 2 Audio System Link to comment
One and a half Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Johnseye said: For example, I can stream my music library from JRiver anywhere because they provide the ability to assign a TCP port and an app which will connect to the server. I can be listening to my library in my car and at work through JRiver. Not through Roon. Roon chokes on the large number of albums I have. An artist with several hundred albums causes Roon to stutter and freeze. This doesn't happen with JRiver. I can easily mass edit metadata with JRiver. I wouldn't waste my time with metadata in Roon, it's incredibly cumbersome. The Roon remote like listening in the car from your own server is coming according to @Em2016. For the large number of albums, the maximum number I have for the Beatles is 26, Roon lists all of them without a problem. JRiver's editing stays with Jriver's database, it doesn't update the file's metadata, unless there's a command that's obscured somewhere in the labyrinth. Anyway there's a thread on Jriver vs Roon. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Popular Post asdf1000 Posted January 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, One and a half said: The Roon remote like listening in the car from your own server is coming according to @Em2016. According to Roon not me :-) Public information https://community.roonlabs.com/t/mobile-music-sync-and-streaming-on-roadmap/15249/2 Mobile solution is confirmed to be on their roadmap. On the roadmap means just that and nothing more, i.e. no timeline. Maybe this year? Maybe next year? No one knows. One and a half and R1200CL 2 Link to comment
One and a half Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, Em2016 said: According to Roon not me :-) Public information https://community.roonlabs.com/t/mobile-music-sync-and-streaming-on-roadmap/15249/2 Mobile solution is confirmed to be on their roadmap. On the roadmap means just that and nothing more, i.e. no timeline. Maybe this year? Maybe next year? No one knows. RealVnc, JRiver could use the same system of authentication, it’s painless from an end user perspective. If you have the bandwidth JRiver streams lossless, but RAAT would have to change their protocol somewhat to fit and maintain the remote connectivity while negotiating tunnels, the real ones with trucks and trains. Thanks for the link! asdf1000 1 AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Johnseye Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 7 hours ago, One and a half said: The Roon remote like listening in the car from your own server is coming according to @Em2016. For the large number of albums, the maximum number I have for the Beatles is 26, Roon lists all of them without a problem. JRiver's editing stays with Jriver's database, it doesn't update the file's metadata, unless there's a command that's obscured somewhere in the labyrinth. Anyway there's a thread on Jriver vs Roon. I'd love to see remote access but that's been on the roadmap for a long time. What I'm happy to see is that Roon is hiring. Hopefully that means these things get implemented faster. I don't have many bands with albums more than 30 or so, but the few I have with hundreds I listen to all the time. If you listen to live music recordings you will get into this number of albums. As I mentioned I use and like both for different reasons. Not looking to get into a long discussion, but wanted to point out that while Roon is great, it isn't a one stop shop. I'd like it to be and I invested in it in hopes it will. Audio System Link to comment
Johnseye Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 6 hours ago, One and a half said: RealVnc, JRiver could use the same system of authentication, it’s painless from an end user perspective. If you have the bandwidth JRiver streams lossless, but RAAT would have to change their protocol somewhat to fit and maintain the remote connectivity while negotiating tunnels, the real ones with trucks and trains. Thanks for the link! My understanding is that streaming to the JRiver remote app is at 320, not lossless. If Roon could improve upon that I would be a happy man. Audio System Link to comment
jay Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I own and really enjoy all 3 of these products, so I suppose I'm content with the results. But perhaps just surprised and maybe even a little disappointed that I didn't get any new "leads" out of this voting. I guess I'd hoped for a DAC to make the list? As for the comments on the cost of Roon, everyone is making fair and subjective points. If income is limited, I can see where $500 is a lot (perhaps too much to justify). It's an absolutely superb product, however (much more so in the last 18 months), so I would strongly recommend a demo if you haven't tried it of late. Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 On 1/12/2018 at 1:40 AM, One and a half said: JRiver's editing stays with Jriver's database, it doesn't update the file's metadata, unless there's a command that's obscured somewhere in the labyrinth. There is. You can set it as a default (as I do) or invoke it manually (for compulsives). Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
chryses Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 On 1/12/2018 at 8:13 AM, Johnseye said: I don't have many bands with albums more than 30 or so, but the few I have with hundreds I listen to all the time. If you listen to live music recordings you will get into this number of albums. What's the number of albums where things start to break down for an artist? I think the most I have for a single artist is about 180 "albums" (as Roon counts them) for Bach and everything seems to work fine. Is there a particular view where things break down? For me, the only problem I have in Roon with too many discs relates to how it handles box sets. All of my big classical and jazz box sets are a huge pain to access; something like Mozart 225 can't really be navigated in Roon (as currently implemented). Link to comment
michaelD Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I’m completely blown away that Roon took the top honor. I have had the Aurender Conductor app for a couple years. It was not bad to start with but it has blossomed into an incredible experience in my opinion. In the last few months I have been trying Roon and although I have heard a lot about it once I finally got to experience it it was a total let down. The only thing that Roon does better is the Lyrics (which by the way is not for all tracks on Tidal and none on a local library ) and I do like the that you can control with your iPhone and don’t need a iPad all the time. But just name any other function and the Conductor app blows the Roon app away in easy of use , searching and you name it. Also their support sucks as it’s a web based community thing. Aurender has real people answering your concern quickly. They are also open to suggestions where I tried with Roon and they have the attitude that they have the best ideas. Ya right! i know the host of this web site has a W20 so he should have good experience with the Conductor app. Please list what is so much better about Roon it baffles me. 2 Channel: Bricasti M20, 21 & M28 SE /Aurender N30SA and MC10 Master clock Treatments: Acoustical panels(F, S & R walls) Misc.: SR Master Fuses Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (Dark Cherry) w/30# weights / 2-ML 212's Grounding: QKore 1&6 / Networking: SOtM switch, clock and Pwr Supply / AQ Diamond /SR Router Power: Furutech GTX-DNCF / Oyaide inwall wire Nordost: 2-QB8 III, QV2's, QK1's, QSine, QWave, QX4, TC Kones, Sort Fut & LIft / Full OG Loom / 3-QSource & 12-QPoints, QNet, V2 Network Misc.: iPad 6 /Custom Rack Media Rm: ML: 13A's, 2-Descent i's, 6- Vanquish, Focus / 3-Parasound A23 / Legacy iV-3 Ultra / 77" LG 4k OLED / Anthem AVM90 / Pioneer Elite DVD Nordost: Odin/T2/H2, BC Kones, H2 Network, V2 HDMI Link to comment
ShawnC Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, michaelD said: I’m completely blown away that Roon took the top honor. I have had the Aurender Conductor app for a couple years. It was not bad to start with but it has blossomed into an incredible experience in my opinion. In the last few months I have been trying Roon and although I have heard a lot about it once I finally got to experience it it was a total let down. The only thing that Roon does better is the Lyrics (which by the way is not for all tracks on Tidal and none on a local library ) and I do like the that you can control with your iPhone and don’t need a iPad all the time. But just name any other function and the Conductor app blows the Roon app away in easy of use , searching and you name it. Also their support sucks as it’s a web based community thing. Aurender has real people answering your concern quickly. They are also open to suggestions where I tried with Roon and they have the attitude that they have the best ideas. Ya right! i know the host of this web site has a W20 so he should have good experience with the Conductor app. Please list what is so much better about Roon it baffles me. Your talking about an app that comes with the purchase of a product the can be 10X the cost of Roon's lifetime membership. Simply put, more people have experience with Roon and voted for it. I didn't vote but I have Roon, a Dragonfly Red and the MicroRendu in my arsenal. All are very affordable products that have improved my listening experience. I'm not saying there the best, but all those products have made significant advances in audio compared to what was available just a few years ago. Remember Roon is still in its infant stages. There hiring, adjusting there software and listening to their customer base to create the best possible product. I'm in it for the long haul. If/when they add streaming away from the home like JRiver, I'll stop using Jriver. The only reason I still use Jriver is so I can stream music to work, or in the car or outdoors exercising. Next year you just need more Aurender supporters to vote. Remember most people who come to this site don't interact. It's all good Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel R-528 Sub Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 3:30 PM, Em2016 said: But it really is that good. The experience gets even better in a multi zone setup, i.e. more than one endpoint - grouping multiple zones, transferring playback from one zone to another so slickly, specific DSP with any/all zones etc. On 1/4/2018 at 3:22 PM, gmgraves said: Roon is much too expensive. $120/year and $500 for a lifetime "lease" is simply ridiculous no matter how good the software is. I would consider $120 to BUY the software to be exorbitant. I say that if you're gonna f*** me, kiss me first, and for that price it's had better be a damned good f***! +1 AGree! $600 lifetime is ridiculous and i won't subscribe to a software program. They should follow models like other software vendors (e.g. jriver) with a realistic price and option to upgrade with new releases as the consume so desires. Plus Roon won't let you play by directory structure. Too many things against it. If someone wants to pay $100+/year to see history that you can find on google, thats fine. The biggest supporters of it are ones that got big discounts for lifetime. Alexa will win with me in long run....although they aren't quite there yet...give it a couple more years. I would rather tell alexa what to play... Alexa: play track, album, genre, playlist, artist, similar artists, make a suggestion, play something to sleep, dance, party to, etc.... will eventually include videos too go with all your music selections too....and if you want to know what artists are similar, or history of biography of music, just ask. You can also tell it to mute, volume up, volume down, next track, etc without having to reach for a remote.....roon will be dead, once alexa automation wins over. Roon tried to get it to work with Alexa, but hey failed in many attempts and ultimately gave up....they will ultimately pay for that mistake. Link to comment
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