Operating systems and their sound signatures

[zackthedog]

29 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Unfortunately, they are DIY only, and there are no more PCBs currently available.

I can  however provide a link to the original artwork if somebody wished to get a PCB maker to make a batch of at least 10  PCBs as well as provide full details including component types etc.

You would however need to be a fairly experienced DIY person.

It does however show the advantages of using lower noise PSUs than the HDPlex.

 

Yes, the HDPlex would still be preferable to most internal SMPS.

What voltage rail are you using in the HDPlex to power the SSD, is it the +5V rail or the Adjustable Output rail ? 

Alex

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/gerskine/greg/default.htm 

Click on Power Supplies and you will find full details including a copy of the original article in Electronics Today International by John Linsley Hood. 

 

Well, I'm a pretty experienced DIYer, though tiny solid state bits aren't my strong point.   Big honking tubes are more my line but I have a friend who's expert at the smaller stuff and is always game for a project.  I'll take a look at the link, thanks.

 

The USB card is powered off the adjustable tap, and thwe SSD from 5V.

[zackthedog]

22 minutes ago, esldude said:

For the kind of money and aggravation being discussed why not try a Dante interface?

 

Well, I wouldn't call it aggravation. ;-)  I've quite enjoyed putting together my own server.  The learning curve wasn't all that steep.  The Dante system certainly avoids a lot of issues.  But you still have a to use a server, don't you?  And won't the sound still be affected to some degree by the OS/playback software combo?

[sandyk]

32 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

Well, I'm a pretty experienced DIYer, though tiny solid state bits aren't my strong point.   Big honking tubes are more my line but I have a friend who's expert at the smaller stuff and is always game for a project.  I'll take a look at the link, thanks.

 

If you decide to go ahead with this, send me a PM and I will supply full details, including more recent improvements, and also how to convert the Current Limiter section of the PCB to take a LM317T set for +5V out into the Capacitance multiplier section.

This means it can convert from +12V to +5V for powering 2 SSDs separately.

The copy of the original article came from me, as well as all of the changes to the original published article which was only capable of use to 100mA  (as published) .The modified version  with the Current Limiter section bypassed can be used at currents of >2A at > +12V. This dual PCB can be configured for use with + and -  supply rails, as well as 2 +VE outputs.

 Incidentally, if your friend is able to photo etch a PCB, the artwork is suitable for this. It is a single layer PCB.

[esldude]

2 hours ago, zackthedog said:

 

Well, I wouldn't call it aggravation. ;-)  I've quite enjoyed putting together my own server.  The learning curve wasn't all that steep.  The Dante system certainly avoids a lot of issues.  But you still have a to use a server, don't you?  And won't the sound still be affected to some degree by the OS/playback software combo?

As Dante works over ethernet, how would the OS effect the sound?

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, esldude said:

As Dante works over ethernet, how would the OS effect the sound?

 

Yeah, we know, "bits are bits" and that's all that matters according to some.

It shouldn't matter with Coax SPDIF or USB either after making changes to PSUs ,RAM, Clocks, installing SATÂ Filters  etc. provided that there have been no changes made after the port that it leaves from, but a large number of members will now tell you that it does matter !

[esldude]

13 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Yeah, we know, "bits are bits" and that's all that matters according to some.

It shouldn't matter with Coax SPDIF or USB either after making changes to PSUs ,RAM, Clocks, installing SATÂ Filters  etc. provided that there have been no changes made after the port that it leaves from, but a large number of members will now tell you that it does matter !

So if the OS in use effects sound quality upon playback, I would assume you'll think it effects sound quality during recording/mastering.  If that is the case, then it seems likely there could be interactions where playing back a Windows mastered digital file might respond to Windows playback differently than Mac playback.  So with all the trillions of possible permutations how likely is it that one OS simply has better sound than another?  And that is ignoring how OS activity varies tremendously depending upon the thousands of possible permutations of hardware it runs upon?  

 

Things that make you go.................................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[semente]

6 minutes ago, esldude said:

So if the OS in use effects sound quality upon playback, I would assume you'll think it effects sound quality during recording/mastering.  If that is the case, then it seems likely there could be interactions where playing back a Windows mastered digital file might respond to Windows playback differently than Mac playback.  So with all the trillions of possible permutations how likely is it that one OS simply has better sound than another?  And that is ignoring how OS activity varies tremendously depending upon the thousands of possible permutations of hardware it runs upon? 

 

I wouldn't lose too much sleep, I'm sure that MQA will be able to solve all those OS interaction problems with its magical filters...

[esldude]

18 minutes ago, semente said:

 

I wouldn't lose too much sleep, I'm sure that MQA will be able to solve all those OS interaction problems with its magical filters...

But if bits ain't bits because filtering isn't perfect, how can filtering (which is by its nature imperfect) make bits perfectly bits??

 

MQA-Many Questions Abound

[semente]

23 minutes ago, esldude said:

But if bits ain't bits because filtering isn't perfect, how can filtering (which is by its nature imperfect) make bits perfectly bits??

 

MQA-Many Questions Abound

 

Trust.

 

[One and a half]

7 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

What would the cost of Server 2016 be?  Which you wouldn't need with the sCLK-EX.  Just use unlicensed Windows 10, free.

A Google search can reveal a full license of 2016 Server with product key for USD59.00.

 

I used a similar method to purchase Office 2016 for a similar lower than Microsoft list price, about USD99 (IIRC) and that application is activated with the in app Microsoft wizard, no crackz or serialz, the product key was delivered with the purchase detail.

[rando]

55 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Trust.

 

 

A few comments.

 

Shouldn't this person be falling on their face, technically speaking?  Or less a leap of faith than directly onto their ass?

Also I thought the wrinkle was she is catching him once again instead of the inverse?

 

Back on topic.  I had purposely forgotten about the existence of Server 2016.  Would any of those with significant experience using Server 2012 and something like AO care to comment on the changes.  I seem to remember having a lukewarm perception of the initial release, of the new version, and will have to revisit exactly what the reason for it was.  I seem to remember some component or another wasn't being carried over or developed fully?

[zackthedog]

3 hours ago, One and a half said:

A Google search can reveal a full license of 2016 Server with product key for USD59.00.

 

I used a similar method to purchase Office 2016 for a similar lower than Microsoft list price, about USD99 (IIRC) and that application is activated with the in app Microsoft wizard, no crackz or serialz, the product key was delivered with the purchase detail.

 

Thank you, I'll look into that.

[zackthedog]

2 hours ago, rando said:

 

A few comments.

 

Shouldn't this person be falling on their face, technically speaking?  Or less a leap of faith than directly onto their ass?

Also I thought the wrinkle was she is catching him once again instead of the inverse?

 

Back on topic.  I had purposely forgotten about the existence of Server 2016.  Would any of those with significant experience using Server 2012 and something like AO care to comment on the changes.  I seem to remember having a lukewarm perception of the initial release, of the new version, and will have to revisit exactly what the reason for it was.  I seem to remember some component or another wasn't being carried over or developed fully?

 

I waffled between trying 2012 and 2016 because I had read that WASAPI was MIA in 2016 and there were other bugs.  But I also read that it runs leaner, so I went ahead.  I mean, it's free (for now.) ;-)  WASAPI works fine, as does ASIO and Kernel Streaming.  I haven't tried 2012, I guess I could.  I have a dual install now, why not three?

 

I tried AO several times on Win10 and was not impressed.  I thought it thinned out the sound.  With Server 2016 (you have to get the new beta version) I can now hear what it's supposed to do.  It's definitely an improvement.

[zackthedog]

5 hours ago, esldude said:

As Dante works over ethernet, how would the OS effect the sound?

 

That's a fair point.  As I said, I'm certainly willing to try it if I can get my hands on a Dante-enabled device.

[zackthedog]

38 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

 

That's a fair point.  As I said, I'm certainly willing to try it if I can get my hands on a Dante-enabled device.

 

So would something like this work?

 

http://www.zackelectronics.com/rdl-sf-dn4-digital-audio-to-network-interface.html?gclid=CjwKCAiApo3SBRA4EiwAty8i-nzQf1NplbefwOJX68N6iDxkJ8khFEb3I4Hzd3odOsvcCp07DXTKqRoCPTcQAvD_BwE

[rando]

Thanks, last time I even thought about it was close to four years ago when major details and maybe the first beta were just coming out.  It was at least a year before release.  I downloaded the trial and will see how badly they dislike their corporate customers poking around under the hood.  More I think in that direction it appears likely to have been the reasoning behind my early dismissal.  

 

@PeterSt Would it be out of place to ask why you developed XXHighend around W10 instead of Server 2016 (or Server 2012)?  

[ElviaCaprice]

7 hours ago, One and a half said:

A Google search can reveal a full license of 2016 Server with product key for USD59.00.

 

Could you be more specific where you found that price.  I'm not seeing anything that cheap for Server 2016?  Here is New Egg's pricing and it is not anywhere near that price?

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1B4-003A-00062

 

This ones a little better.

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Microsoft-Windows-Server-2016-Essentials-license/4322468.aspx

[esldude]

1 hour ago, zackthedog said:

 

So would something like this work?

 

http://www.zackelectronics.com/rdl-sf-dn4-digital-audio-to-network-interface.html?gclid=CjwKCAiApo3SBRA4EiwAty8i-nzQf1NplbefwOJX68N6iDxkJ8khFEb3I4Hzd3odOsvcCp07DXTKqRoCPTcQAvD_BwE

Don't know anything about this product, but it should work. 

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Could you be more specific where you found that price.  I'm not seeing anything that cheap for Server 2016?  Here is New Egg's pricing and it is not anywhere near that price?

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1B4-003A-00062

 

This ones a little better.

https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Microsoft-Windows-Server-2016-Essentials-license/4322468.aspx

Try this mob https://edealonlineau.com/. 

 

[Guest]

Years ago I did a comparison between Operating Systems and for these results.

 

See my web page below for the full write up.

[One and a half]

Another issue relating to the server OS instead of a 'regular' version like Win10, is that running player software is not supported, and you're on your own.

This certainly applies to Jriver, it's spelled out clearly here.

 

From what I can remember Miska is cool on the idea at one time, whether that's changed, not sure.

[Lebouwsky]

38 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Another issue relating to the server OS instead of a 'regular' version like Win10, is that running player software is not supported, and you're on your own.

This certainly applies to Jriver, it's spelled out clearly here.

 

From what I can remember Miska is cool on the idea at one time, whether that's changed, not sure.

Does hqplayer run flawlesly on Windows server 2016 like is does on Windows 10? And does Roon support Windows 10

[sandyk]

10 hours ago, esldude said:

So if the OS in use effects sound quality upon playback, I would assume you'll think it effects sound quality during recording/mastering.  If that is the case, then it seems likely there could be interactions where playing back a Windows mastered digital file might respond to Windows playback differently than Mac playback.  So with all the trillions of possible permutations how likely is it that one OS simply has better sound than another?  And that is ignoring how OS activity varies tremendously depending upon the thousands of possible permutations of hardware it runs upon?  

 

Things that make you go.................................hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Dennis

 In fact, I do believe that it could affect Recording and Mastering as well to a small degree.

 Given that Mac Minis sound better with a JS2 Linear PSU, I have often wondered if Barry Diament's recording could also improve slightly if his setup used a Linear PSU instead. I understand that his clocking has recently been improved by an order of magnitude , so I wonder if this will further improve his next recording session.

You may remember too, that some years back I reported about Silverlight from NYC and myself ripping a track from a Hybrid Norah Jones SACD,(Come Away With Me)  and him reporting that my rip sounded better than his ripped using a Mac despite our .md5 checksums being identical.

 It could very well be that the current Mac OS now outperforms W10 for audio performance though.

Alex

 

 P.S.

 If the SQ of Barry's recordings further improve after the clocking upgrade, do you REALLY believe that the 1s and 0s of the final result will be any different than they would have been without the upgrade ?

[sandyk]

9 hours ago, esldude said:

But if bits ain't bits because filtering isn't perfect, how can filtering (which is by its nature imperfect) make bits perfectly bits??

 

MQA-Many Questions Abound

 

  That may be a good question to ask Peter St. given that he manipulates bits using his XXHE software and various "engines",  and his software, as well as his DAC is highly regarded.

[zackthedog]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

Another issue relating to the server OS instead of a 'regular' version like Win10, is that running player software is not supported, and you're on your own.

This certainly applies to Jriver, it's spelled out clearly here.

 

From what I can remember Miska is cool on the idea at one time, whether that's changed, not sure.

 

Jriver MC 23 64-bit runs just fine on Server 2016.  Of course I haven't tried any of the tweakier players yet.  I know that Audiophile Optimiser "broke" Resonant's Wasapi output ability on Windows 10.