Roon + HQPlayer server (fanless, if possible)

[elan120]

9 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

I finally managed to build a PC for DSD512.

I am using AMD Threadripper 1920x and now I can easily play DSD512 with poly-sync-xtr-mp-2s filter!!

 

I don't even use CUDA offload and cpu utilization is not exceeding 15%!

 

My whole build costs less than $2000...

 

I also use the Muso for HQPlayer GUI. It works amazing! (better with older HQPlayer). It has a great UI/UX for managing album library and full integration with HQPlayer. Best solution I found so far.

 

Great news.  Glad to know 1920X will work.

 

Is it possible to list other components used for this build?  I would like to put one together as well, so this information will be very useful.

[sbenyo]

My Build is:

 

CPU: AMD Threadripper 1920x 

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH U14s TR4/SP3

Memory: 4x8gb Flare-X 3200 (Quad)

Motherboard: MSI x399 ac gaming carbon

PSU: Seasonic Prime 750W

SSD: Samsung 960 EVO 250gb

Case: Fractal Design Define R5 blackout + window

GPU: Nvidia gtx 210

 

Let me know if you need any more information. Build itself was really smooth and simple even though it was my first one.

 

[elan120]

5 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

My Build is:

 

CPU: AMD Threadripper 1920x 

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH U14s TR4/SP3

Memory: 4x8gb Flare-X 3200 (Quad)

Motherboard: MSI x399 ac gaming carbon

PSU: Seasonic Prime 750W

SSD: Samsung 960 EVO 250gb

Case: Fractal Design Define R5 blackout + window

GPU: Nvidia gtx 210

 

Let me know if you need any more information. Build itself was really smooth and simple even though it was my first one.

 

Thank you for the detailed listing, this is very helpful.  Bookmarked.

[sbenyo]

Update:

I was mistaken between -2s and non -2s. Non -2s is the better mode. Without -2s the load is much higher.

 

I  can play DSD512 (48x512) only if auto rate family is set. Some files do play without it but some get to100% CPU and stuck.

When it is set everything works properly and CPU level is ~30%

 

I also noticed that both using multicore and Cuda offload should not be fully set. They should be both grayed.

 

With these settings everything works great!

[sbenyo]

Another update, I am now using GTX 1060.

 

[seatrope]

Hi @sbenyo, agree with your findings 100%. I have a 1950x threadripper setup, and auto rate Family with multi core grayed plays all upsampled DSD512, including xtr, without any issues. 

 

As you note note I cannot do 44.1khz to dsd512x48 xtr, hqp gets pinned to 100%. 

[FatalethaL]

Hi guys, i guess i am late for the party. But i was able to follow up with this thread, as well as the 70 pages long T+A DAC 8 DSD thread.

 

I hope you don't mind that i "hijack" your thread, TS, because i intend to setup another PC server for possibly an incoming T+A DAC 8 DSD. The purpose of this PC server is to stream stereo music (upsampled DSD512), running Roon + HQP + AO, while being fanless at the same time.

 

 

Based on my idea above, what I have in mind now in terms of PC configuration would be an TOTL i7 (non-K) with windows server 2016 (GUI).

However, I have concerns pertaining to heat/temperature when playing DSD512 music for say... more than 2 hours continuously.

1. Will the Intel i7 go beyond 80 degrees Celsius in fanless casing like HDplex?
2. If I were to install heatsink + fan, how will it affect SQ?
3. Is there any other solution to work around the heating issue?
4. I also been told that i5 upsampling to DSD512 is not an issue, can some one verify?

 

Hope to hear inputs from you guys soon.

[astrotoy]

On 2/4/2018 at 11:00 AM, sbenyo said:

Update:

I was mistaken between -2s and non -2s. Non -2s is the better mode. Without -2s the load is much higher.

 

I  can play DSD512 (48x512) only if auto rate family is set. Some files do play without it but some get to100% CPU and stuck.

When it is set everything works properly and CPU level is ~30%

 

I also noticed that both using multicore and Cuda offload should not be fully set. They should be both grayed.

 

With these settings everything works great!

As far as sound quality, my experience is the same. I use -xtr without -2s for my upconversions in stereo and playing my DSD256 native files directly.  However, my DAC doesn't go up to DSD512, only DSD256.  The plain -xtr filter is too much for my computer doing 6 channel decoding, so for mch upcoverting (e.g. 5.1 DSD64 to 5.1 DSD256 I just use the plain poly-sinc -2s.  Been recently listening to some of my 600+ mch albums - Channel Classics, BIS and others. 

 

A nice source of native DSD256 albums is HDTT (High Definition Tape Transfers).  They are rips of 15ips 2 track tapes directly to DSD256 using Merging Hapi.  They also have a bunch of releases which needed a little editing and were ripped to DXD352. 

 

Larry

[ALRAINBOW]

Larry have you tried upsampling off line versus on the fly.   ??  I know your computer is super fast and very well made but there are some real advantages off line verses on the fly.  

Next have you really sat down and compared native to up sample ? 

Lastly has anyone tried to down sample dsd to pcm hi Rez ?   

If I enable turbo and hyperbole thread I can upsample to 256 on any filter 

512 as well but not all filter settings. And I agree the hq player is the best upsample sound 

but for me native is best and desabiling the above and not over clocking and not using cuda or even a gui woth roon into hq is a big leap in sound.  

Do you have an LPs or sw psu ? 

[Kal Rubinson]

29 minutes ago, ALRAINBOW said:

Lastly has anyone tried to down sample dsd to pcm hi Rez ?   

Sure.  Some of us do it out of necessity in order to implement EQ in PCM.  I downsample from DSD to 24/176.2 or 24/192 most of the time.

[jcn3]

I also down sample DSD to 24/176 for use with Dirac.

[Miska]

23 hours ago, ALRAINBOW said:

Larry have you tried upsampling off line versus on the fly.   ??  I know your computer is super fast and very well made but there are some real advantages off line verses on the fly.

 

Hmmh, like what?

 

In my opinion it is just stupid waste of disk space, making it hard to adjust settings for different DACs and update to new versions of the algorithms.

 

[Miska]

22 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Sure.  Some of us do it out of necessity in order to implement EQ in PCM.  I downsample from DSD to 24/176.2 or 24/192 most of the time.

 

Why don't you run the EQ at native DSD rate?

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Why don't you run the EQ at native DSD rate?

Running Dirac.

[astrotoy]

On 2/12/2018 at 3:01 PM, ALRAINBOW said:

Larry have you tried upsampling off line versus on the fly.   ??  I know your computer is super fast and very well made but there are some real advantages off line verses on the fly.  

Next have you really sat down and compared native to up sample ? 

Lastly has anyone tried to down sample dsd to pcm hi Rez ?   

If I enable turbo and hyperbole thread I can upsample to 256 on any filter 

512 as well but not all filter settings. And I agree the hq player is the best upsample sound 

but for me native is best and desabiling the above and not over clocking and not using cuda or even a gui woth roon into hq is a big leap in sound.  

Do you have an LPs or sw psu ? 

Al, I haven't done any offline upsampling.  Doing that would be quite daunting with my collection.  I have over 40TB of rips I did at 192/24 of my vinyl and tape collection, so offline upsampling would take probably 50+TB of additional storage.  The mch files are quite big at 7-12GB each for DSD64, increasing to 28 to 48GB for DSD256.  My mch NADAC converts everything to DSD256, its sweet spot.  Tom Caulfield who does the DSD mastering for Channel Classics recommended that a separate computer doing the upconversion using HQP would make the load easier for the NADAC and result in better sound.  I have liked to experiment with different of Miska's filters - most recently, I have been trying his closed form filter instead of the poly sinc -2s for mch files.  So that would be another argument for not converting offline. I do have a few albums which a friend ripped from SACDs in stereo DSD64.  They were converted offline to 192/24 or maybe 176/24 to playback on the Berkeley Audio DAC which doesn't do DSD.  He gave me the rips to experiment playing on my Model Two.  I haven't had time to do anything serious with them. 

 

As far as keeping everything native, my Pacific Microsonics Model Two where I ripped my 192/24 files, still sounds the best playing back 192/24.  However, it is a pain to use for playback - not at all consumer friendly.  I thought about getting an Aurender W20 which I could use with the Model Two, since it does dual wire needed for the Model Two, but have not done so.  Don't know about power supplies.  Need to ask Chris who built the computer. 

 

Larry

[sdolezalek]

7 minutes ago, astrotoy said:

I have over 40TB of rips I did at 192/24 of my vinyl and tape collection, so offline upsampling would take probably 50+TB of additional storage. 

 

Other than the time invested, I have wondered whether you gain anything ripping to 192/24, particularly if you are then going to use HQ Player to further upconvert or convert to DSd256 or DSD512?  I at first upsampled my CDs to 24/192 when I was ripping them, but have since stopped since that both took up more storage space and seemed to increase the CPU load in HQP as compared to just upsampling the 16/44 on the fly.  Presumably if you upsample one offline and again at playback you are also deploying two different filters rather than just the one in HQP. 

 

Thoughts?

[astrotoy]

11 minutes ago, sdolezalek said:

 

Other than the time invested, I have wondered whether you gain anything ripping to 192/24, particularly if you are then going to use HQ Player to further upconvert or convert to DSd256 or DSD512?  I at first upsampled my CDs to 24/192 when I was ripping them, but have since stopped since that both took up more storage space and seemed to increase the CPU load in HQP as compared to just upsampling the 16/44 on the fly.  Presumably if you upsample one offline and again at playback you are also deploying two different filters rather than just the one in HQP. 

 

Thoughts?

I started the project in 2009 and started ripping in 2010 my 10,000+ vinyl albums and tapes , all analogue to digital.  This was well before DSD was in vogue.    The best sounding ADAC that I found was the Pacific Microsonics Model Two and its highest resolution was 192/24.  Since storage was cheap compared to the cost of the equipment I was using, and since I didn't want to repeat ripping (it took well over 10,000 hours to complete the project), I thought that ripping at the highest quality possible was the best choice.  I worked the several fine mastering and recording engineers, including Paul Stubblebine who works with Keith Johnson who invented the Model Two.  They all said to rip at the highest level (since it doesn't cost any more time or effort).  That is what they do, so I did.  You can always down convert if needed (what Keith does with his Reference Recordings CD's - record at 176/24 using a Model Two and downconvert to 16/44 HDCD using the Model Two.   Fast forward to today, and I have been using Roon and HQP to play back my files on my mch NADAC.  It happens to do DSD256 really well.  However, having all my own rips at 192/24 (PCM also allows me to do declicking and decrackling and other editing as necessary), i can always play the files through my Model Two or some other PCM DAC.  Right now, the Roon/HQP gives very fine results to my ears, and is a whole lot easier to play.  If I really want the best on my 192/24 files, however, I will play through the Model Two.

 

For digital files, I don't upsample any files when I rip them. The few CD's I have I just rip to 16/44 using dbpoweramp.  I also rip SACD's using a PlayStation3, again, no upsampling, just ripping to DSD64.

 

 

[ALRAINBOW]

Have you tried linux instead of windows ? It uses less resources 

also as I get your plan by using a switching psu your loosing out on a whole anonther level of quaility 

[sdolezalek]

9 hours ago, astrotoy said:

I started the project in 2009 and started ripping in 2010 my 10,000+ vinyl albums and tapes , all analogue to digital.  This was well before DSD was in vogue.    The best sounding ADAC that I found was the Pacific Microsonics Model Two and its highest resolution was 192/24.  Since storage was cheap compared to the cost of the equipment I was using, and since I didn't want to repeat ripping (it took well over 10,000 hours to complete the project), I thought that ripping at the highest quality possible was the best choice.  I worked the several fine mastering and recording engineers, including Paul Stubblebine who works with Keith Johnson who invented the Model Two.  They all said to rip at the highest level (since it doesn't cost any more time or effort).  That is what they do, so I did.  ...

 

For digital files, I don't upsample any files when I rip them. The few CD's I have I just rip to 16/44 using dbpoweramp.  I also rip SACD's using a PlayStation3, again, no upsampling, just ripping to DSD64.

 

Larry:  thank you, very clear and helpful!

[astrotoy]

On 2/15/2018 at 10:45 PM, ALRAINBOW said:

Have you tried linux instead of windows ? It uses less resources 

also as I get your plan by using a switching psu your loosing out on a whole anonther level of quaility 

Hi Al,

Thanks for the recommendations. However I'm not a computer person. Last time I did computers seriously was punching in cards in Fortran IV on a CDC6400 mainframe (which I have read was as powerful as an iphone 5 today.)  So I discussed with Chris what I wanted to accomplish and he figured out on how to accomplish it.  I said yes, and he built it. 

 

Larry

[leftside]

Any recommended PC builders who would build one of these music PCs to some of the specs mentioned on here?

[ALRAINBOW]

4 hours ago, leftside said:

Any recommended PC builders who would build one of these music PCs to some of the specs mentioned on here?

Yes of course. 

Email me at [email protected] 

i have a builder who can make anything we do work together in concepts he builds and sells. 

 

[agillis]

20 hours ago, leftside said:

Any recommended PC builders who would build one of these music PCs to some of the specs mentioned on here?

 

We sell a pre-built solution for this.

 

No Windows only high speed low latency Linux. The a i7 (7700 Kaby Lake) it can do two channel  DSD 512 upsampling with about 50% CPU load.

 

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-roon-server-hqplayer

 

We have NAA running on our Rendu series of music players. With a small Ethernet to USB music player attached to your USB DAC you don't need a big linear supply for your server only a high quality (and small) supply for your player.

 

The sonicTransporter is running our Sonicoriber OS, A Linux based OS that is configured entirely from a web browser so you don't need to know anything about Linux or even a computers to get it working.

 

HQPlayer and Roon server and preinstalled.

[leftside]

Ok great - thanks guys. Looks like there are some good options here.

[Allan F]

17 hours ago, agillis said:

No Windows only high speed low latency Linux. The a i7 (7700 Kaby Lake) it can do two channel  DSD 512 upsampling with about 50% CPU load...HQPlayer and Roon server and preinstalled.

 

It can readily upsample to DSD512, but is limited to HQPlayer's -2s filters. On my Windows10 Sonic Transporter (i7-7700) with HQPlayer upsampling to DSD512 (with -2s filters), and using HQPDcontrol on an Android tablet as a remote interface for HQPlayer instead of Roon, the CPU load is actually below 35%.