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Ethernet help....add switch, router, or both?


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I've been sucked into the black hole that is improving my ethernet situation but the more I dig the more confused I get.  My experience with network issues is that it gets pretty deep pretty quick.

 

I have an all in one modem/router from my internet provider.  From what I read, it should sound so bad that I am surprised I get any sound at all! Ha.  I want to upgrade the router etc.

 

Brief overview of my setup:

 

I have my music library on a Synology NAS which goes into my modem/router.  

 

Another network cable goes from the router/modem across the house and through a wall plate junction, which hooks into the Mac mini I use as a server to play tunes via Audirvana.  The mini is connected via USB to my DAC.

I might end up going network direct into my DAC at some point or insert a purpose built streamer like the Bricasti M5 but that is another issue.

 

Here and elsewhere, the Netgear 7000 was recommended and I installed and tried to set it up yesterday.  It wouldn't link up with my internet connection.  After 2 hours on the phone with Netgear and an hour on the phone with my internet provider with zero results, I was about to blow a gasket so I packed the thing up and sent it back.

 

I have set up several Apple routers in the last few years that were a cinch but I hear they aren't too good for audio.

 

So...is there another router that would be good which would be easy to set up?

Second, could I just add a network switch on to my existing setup and would it eliminate any negative effects which my current router/modem are injecting into my system?

 

Thanks!

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Definitely get your own router and disable wireless on the modem (if present).  

 

Surprised you had issues with the R7000.  I had one and it works great and fairly easy/straightforward setup.  I moved to the R7800 troubleshooting what turned out to be a provider issue.  The other big brands are Asus and Linksys.  Asus has been good in the past as far as wireless range but I had reliability issues but this was several years ago.  YMMV.

 

Smallnetbuilder dot com is a great website for networking as far as mainstream routers and NAS units.  Business-class units are supposed to be very good but much more difficult to setup. 

 

I have not heard of issues with Apple Extremes other than the older ones have fewer connect ports.  I have one set up as an access point and I do nothing to it other than reboot every 6 months.  I do not know about newer units.  Airplays can be limiting so avoid unless feeding a SONOS system or similar.

 

Switches are fine but you still need to get your own router.

QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear RAX43 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBTouch ->SABAJ A10d->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: iPeng (iPad Air & iPhone); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: iPhone 12 ProMax & Radio Paradise or NAS streaming; Sony NWZ ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers  

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I doubt whether a new router is going to do much for your sound quality.  

 

Unless there is a way to totally disable the router function in your all-in-one modem/router you are going to have problems installing any new router.  The Netgear R7000 would have been easy to install if you also replaced your ISP-supplied gateway (all-in-one modem/router) with a standalone modem like the Netgear CM600.  

 

Although it sounds reasonable, asking your ISP for technical support in this situation is almost guaranteed to be a total waste of time.  You are much better off asking for help from a networking forum.

 

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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Your best option is to put in an inexpensive switch such as a Netgear GS605 or 8, plug the switch into the modem/router, and all other network connections (NAS, Mac mini etc) go into the switch. This takes the modem/router out of the LAN switching role,  and usually provides for a more stable setup with streaming audio files. Keep both the switch and modem/router physically as far away from the DAC as possible as they are electrically noisy. You may or may not get much of an improvement in sound quality but it is a good starting point.

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Quote
14 hours ago, rickca said:

Unless there is a way to totally disable the router function in your all-in-one modem/router you are going to have problems installing any new router.  The Netgear R7000 would have been easy to install if you also replaced your ISP-supplied gateway (all-in-one modem/router) with a standalone modem like the Netgear CM600.  

 

Yes, the router function was disabled at the time I was trying to install the R7000.  I know the internet was working because I could plug the ethernet straight into my Mac and it was fine, but when I plugged it into the Netgear it wouldn't work.  It did work briefly one time then gave out.

 

10 hours ago, Alvantri said:

Your best option is to put in an inexpensive switch such as a Netgear GS605 or 8, plug the switch into the modem/router, and all other network connections (NAS, Mac mini etc) go into the switch. This takes the modem/router out of the LAN switching role,  and usually provides for a more stable setup with streaming audio files. Keep both the switch and modem/router physically as far away from the DAC as possible as they are electrically noisy. You may or may not get much of an improvement in sound quality but it is a good starting point.

 

Thanks...I may give this a try.

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Router/switch shouldn't matter if your network doesn't have environment issues or traffic congestion problems. Spend $150 on 2 GigE/FE Fiber Media Converters (FMC's), and the length of fiber optic cable needed to run from your router/switch to the Mac and call it a day. That way whatever electrical "leakage" is going on with your router/switch will be electrically isolated from the Mac. And if you want to up the ante, add in an Uptone Audio ISO Regen to improve the USB connection from Mac to DAC. 

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 13/12/2017 at 12:51 AM, Alvantri said:

Your best option is to put in an inexpensive switch such as a Netgear GS605 or 8, plug the switch into the modem/router, and all other network connections (NAS, Mac mini etc) go into the switch. This takes the modem/router out of the LAN switching role,  and usually provides for a more stable setup with streaming audio files. Keep both the switch and modem/router physically as far away from the DAC as possible as they are electrically noisy. You may or may not get much of an improvement in sound quality but it is a good starting point.

Does it?  I thought that the addition of a switch (without configuration) just gave you more ports.  What you suggest is exactly what I'd like to achieve. My old switch just died, but before replacing it I'd like to understand if I can stream from NAS to renderer without bogging down my broadband router through use of a switch.

 

Thanks

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There has been a lot of research into network computer audio here on the forums.  Several things are still under heavy research.  It seems that networking does effect the sound quality upstream from whatever is putting the music into the DAC. (And so do a lot of other things).  It seems that by bridging the network between the renderer and the controller makes a big difference.  I have not tested this yet be will be soon.

 

There are also several area of discussion about DC grounding and power supplies that fold into this subject area.  An a huge section on clocking and more.

 

A good place to start looking is here: 

The index in the start of the massive thread is helpful.

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@tdimler Try this one. I used their switch and it just day and night different. replace any router isn't going to give you improve sound quality. They build audio grade router and switch. Good Luck (I purchased the TCXO switch and that is wow.)

 

 

DigitalDac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,
CASSOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router

Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono

 
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I'd

1/ add audio grade switch,

2/ use FMC (fiber media converter) pair to isolate network noise,

3/ replace mobo Ethernet card with audio grade net card,

4/ use audio grade USB card.

 

Expect much better SQ.  Just two cents.

WS2019 Core Datacenter, dualPC, JPLAY Femto, AO3, Fidelizer Pro 8.8, MC2XY, IOS app.

 

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@thuandb which audio switch and usb card have you tried or using?

DigitalDac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,
CASSOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router

Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono

 
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I've been using PPA v2, PPA v4, and the most currently JCAT USB Femto card.  As to audio switches, I started with a Cisco switch, then a PPA 100Mb TCXO, and the most currently PPA 1GB OCXO switch.  The SQ went up with each change.    

WS2019 Core Datacenter, dualPC, JPLAY Femto, AO3, Fidelizer Pro 8.8, MC2XY, IOS app.

 

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@thuandb If you need another step upgrade. try the TLS OCXO simply this is the build-in OCXO not out board. and the clock is much more accurate us military grade compare to what ppa using.

DigitalDac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,
CASSOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router

Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono

 
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