Best CPU for hqplayer

[sbenyo]

I am building a computer for HQPlayer and I wonder which is the best CPU (up to now) I should use.

 

The options I look at are either intel 7th generation (6700k, 7700k), 8th generation (8700k) or 9th generation (x series).

Is there a significant difference that makes any of them the best choice? I do want to maximize performance of up sampling to DSD512 with best modes (XTR) possible.

It should be noted a good GPU will be in use as well (either GTX 1070 or 1080).

 

BTW, if AMD has any competitive CPU that matches or even performs better it can be an option.

 

I currently plan to go with 8700k but I am not sure if this is the right choice.

 

[ted_b]

I would peruse the last several pages of this thread.  Threadrippers, 1700x, 1900x etc being mentioned for max core ultiization.

 

[sbenyo]

Thanks for the advice. I do see some forums mentioning that they could get XTR to work on 1700x or 1800x and not on 7700k but it's not definite. I still want to see if anyone tried the new 8700k and if it can  play XTR flawlessly.

 

[sbenyo]

I found this thread with more information:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-holo-audio-cyan-dac-amp-pcm-or-dsd-module.861507/page-3

 

It seems the L3 cache and # of cores are important. It seems there is a proof that 1950x works even without CUDA offload and 6950x works with CUDA. It also says that the cheaper 1920x may work but there is no proof for it.

 

Did anyone manage to do DSD512 XTR (the non 2s) on a 1920x without stuttering?

 

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, sbenyo said:

t seems the L3 cache and # of cores are important. It seems there is a proof that 1950x works even without CUDA offload and 6950x works with CUDA. It also says that the cheaper 1920x may work but there is no proof for it.

 

I have the i7-6950X and it doesn't need CUDA...

 

I just checked Ryzen 7 1700X and it can do DSD256 with xtr filter, but not DSD512 without stuttering. Maybe with overclocking or 1800X, but not 1700X as standard.

 

[jamesg11]

10 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I have the i7-6950X and it doesn't need CUDA...

 

I just checked Ryzen 7 1700X and it can do DSD256 with xtr filter, but not DSD512 without stuttering. Maybe with overclocking or 1800X, but not 1700X as standard.

 

Anyone know what they use in the current sonic transporters designed for hqp & roon 512 upsampling?

[sbenyo]

Thanks for the information Miska.

From what I can see the 1800x is similar to 1700x so I don't think it's good enough.

 

I still want to see if anyone can check the 1920x as it is probably the best cost/effective option if it works.

 

 

[danrap]

What do you think about the minimum requirements of cpu to do convolving from a dsd 128 file?

A ryzen 5 1500 can be enough?

 

 

[sbenyo]

I finally managed to build a PC for DSD512.

I am using AMD Threadripper 1920x and now I can easily play DSD512 with poly-sync-xtr-mp-2s filter!!

 

I don't even use CUDA offload and cpu utilization is not exceeding 15%!

 

My whole build costs less than $2000...

 

[pocarrie]

I wanted to point out that with my new dac T+A DAC 8 DSD, in a dual PC system, with in the PC server just an old i7-3770k and CUDA offload enabled permanently (Nvidia 660 Ti video card), Auto rate family enabled, and Fidelizer 8.0 Pro, I can play files up to DSD512 with poly-sync-xtr-mp-2s without stutter, from Roon or Muso indifferently.

The CPU utilization percentage is about 40%, from time to time there are peaks at 100%, but rarely.

 

It is not a definitive solution, I know, probably in the near future I will upgrade the PC server, but for now it works...

 

[Mogos]

On 29.01.2018 at 8:35 PM, sbenyo said:

I finally managed to build a PC for DSD512.

I am using AMD Threadripper 1920x and now I can easily play DSD512 with poly-sync-xtr-mp-2s filter!!

 

I don't even use CUDA offload and cpu utilization is not exceeding 15%!

 

My whole build costs less than $2000...

 

Good to know. How noisy is the processor vent when you upsample to DSD 512 and the highest filter.

[sbenyo]

The build I have is dead silent. You don't know the computer is on.

 

It's a combination of the case (Fractal Design R5 blackout) + Cooler (Noctua NH U14S).

My GPU (Gigabyte 1060) is also dead silent even in most demanding games.

 

It seems HQPlayer does not even start challenging this setup even at its max configuration

 

 

[sbenyo]

Update:

I was mistaken between -2s and non -2s. Non -2s is the better mode. Without -2s the load is much higher.

 

I  can play DSD512 (48x512) only if auto rate family is set. Some files do play without it but some get to100% CPU and stuck.

When it is set everything works properly and CPU level is ~30%

 

I also noticed that both using multicore and Cuda offload should not be fully set. They should be both grayed.

 

With these settings everything works great!

 

[Miska]

On 2/4/2018 at 8:57 PM, sbenyo said:

I also noticed that both using multicore and Cuda offload should not be fully set. They should be both grayed.

 

If CUDA box is grayed, then it means only convolution engine is offload. Thus if you don't use it, then CUDA is not used either. Offload status is reported briefly in the main window status bar when playback is started.

 

Multicore box grayed should automatically find optimal configuration for any core count, so in most cases it is best selection.

 

[sbenyo]

For some reason when I fully check the CUDA offload, I get 100% CPU and it hangs.

It only works for me with grayed CUDA or none at all.

 

[Miska]

23 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

For some reason when I fully check the CUDA offload, I get 100% CPU and it hangs.

It only works for me with grayed CUDA or none at all.

 

What is your filter selection and source + destination rate combination?

 

[sbenyo]

My settings are as below. I am running directly from desktop. The files are on local fast ssd disk.

 

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

My settings are as below. I am running directly from desktop. The files are on local fast ssd disk.

 

 

 

That is not going to work on GTX 1060... Because it doesn't run on GTX 1080 either.

 

[sbenyo]

What is the issue with 1060? It does have CUDA support.

 

In any case it works for the same for me with grayed or disabled so I don't really need the this option. 

[Mr Wensleydale]

I've found this thread very interesting as I too have a T+A DAC8 DSD and would like to be able to use HQPlayer at DSD512.  At present I am running Roon on my desktop i5 which can do DSD256 albeit without the nice filters that HQPlayer offers.

 

So, I've decided to buy / build a PC that is capable of running HQPlayer.  The former option seems expensive and I have no experience of the latter, so @sbenyo your efforts have been very helpful.

 

It would seem that the 1920x Threadripper is a good place to start, but I have a couple of questions:

 

1) How easy did you find it to build your own machine?  Do you perhaps have a link to a useful guide on how to set about it?

 

2) I'm not interested in gaming, so do you think it would be possible to use cheaper components?  For example, would 2 x 8GB RAM be sufficient?  Do I need an expensive graphics card?  Are there any other areas where I could economise without affecting performance?

 

Any suggestions / help gratefully received!

[sbenyo]

This was my first build so it does take a bit more time to understand everything and have the confidence doing it.

After I did it, I can say it is not complex at all.

 

Components comments/tips:

1. If you don't need it for gaming you can put a very cheap GPU. I can play DSD512 without using CUDA at all.
 

2. You can definitely don't have to use a lot of memory. Saying that I would not go with only 8GB (I do think it will work). Try to have 16GB. You can always start with 8GB and if things don't work buy more. Please note you need them in pairs so plan carefully. If you are not gaming you will probably don't need overclocking so you can also settle with cheap memory that does not need high speeds. You should be aware that Threadripper is built for quad memory channels so it's best to have 4 dimms but it's definitely not a must.

I also recommended using memory approved by your motherboard vendor. Memory can be tricky and do all sorts of problems if not selected properly.
 

3.  If you don't plan gaming in the future as well you can also compromise on the power supply and have one of 500W-650W. The lower watts are cheaper. You should of course get a modular PSU (attach cables only as needed) to make the build simpler and cleaner.

 

4. I do recommend using SSD. I am converting my music files from network drive to my local SSD and from there I play them. You can definitely settle with cheaper SSD like 850 evo or something similar. Please note that the x399 motherboards do support m.2 ssd options but if you are not planning to do gaming or large file manipulations you don't really need it.

 

5. You can try to find the cheapest x399 motherboard. The more expensive ones are for overclocking or gaming and you don't really need it.

 

6. I use a Noctua NH U14S cooler. It is cheap and does the job perfectly. It's a bit bulky but very good and very quiet.

 

7. Case - cases are not expensive. I have Fractal Design R5 blackout + window. It is deadly silent which is very important to me. I am very pleased with it.  Any mid-ATX case is good. Make sure it has enough space to accommodate the CPU cooler you choose. Noctua cooler does need the space.

 

Build tips:

1. Attaching the CPU is the only risky part. It goes on top of ~4000 very small pins. To avoid issues, you should just read the instructions and watch videos of how to do it before. It has to be done exactly as described.

 

2. Learn all connections on the PSU and motherboard according to the manuals. Know exactly which ones you need to attach and how before you start. Attaching all cables to the motherboard takes a bit of a time but if you learn it properly you should be fine.

 

3. If you do use the Noctua cooler, just follow the instructions exactly or watch video how to do it. There is nothing difficult about it.

 

4. Install the PSU before you install the motherboard in the case. Learn what cables are needed and attach only those.

 

5. When you install the motherboard in the case follow the exact instructions. Don't forget to put the motherboard connections cover at the back of the motherboard.

 

6. I had many cables, and screws left. Don't worry about it. Use only what you need. I guess there are many spares.

 

6. I used this video as reference to my build. It is similar case, same motherboard and CPU. It does not show all but it is helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83mA2TGNRCU

 

7. Allocate 2-3 hours for it after reading the instructions. It should take much less but be on the safe side. If I had to build it again today, it would probably take me 30-45 mins from start to end.

 

All in all I think it's a fun and rewarding project. Once you hit the power button and see the system load you will feel very good.

Once you see HQPlayer play DSD512 with the xtr filters you will be thrilled.

 

Here is a link to my build list in pcpartpicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/zfxG3C

I think it is a good site to see other people's builds and learn from them.

 

[MirinStereo]

I honestly don't know why people are writing about severe hardware requirements. My Xeon E3 1231v3 can do DSD512 poly-sinc-ext (non -2s) perfectly fine (at max. 47% cpu utilization, no CUDA offload). It can, however, not do DSD 512 xtr, but it can do xtr-2s at mentioned frequency.

 

It's a mid to low tier Xeon from 2014 (Haswell). It has four Cores (with HT) and runs at 3,6GHz continuously on all cores if sufficent heat can be dissipated, the L3 Cache Size is 8MB. You can buy them used for around 180€ and since you will not be overclocking that CPU, a H97 Motherboard is fine, which can be found used for around 80€. I only run my RAM at 1600MHz CL10 and HQ-Player doesn't use more than 250MB of it. So 8GB is plenty (buy used for around 50€, dual sticks for dual channel). There might be even cheaper ways of achieving mentioned presets, I am almost sure of that.

 

However, I am thinking about upgrading to do DSD512 with poly-sinc-xtr and therefore, I am looking at used Xeons since they present a much better value than new CPUs. The E5-2690V2 seems to be a good option since it has a very large Cache of 25MB and 10 cores (and HT for 20 Threads) at 3GHz (Ivy-Bridge though, so lower IPC). They go for around 350€ + MoBo. A 2667v2 (8 cores at 3,3GHz, Turbo to 4GHz, 25MB Cache) costs about the same and might be even better. Some of the used Xeons even have warranty for a year or so. They do however not have an integrated GPU (iGPU) so you would need a dGPU (dedicated GPU) to get a Display output.

 

@Mr Wensleydale: 1) Building a PC is VERY easy. You only need a screw driver:

 

2) 8GB is plenty. You can cheap out on other components, such as the case or the motherboard, however, a case is what you build in and what you touch and does insulate from sounds. I would go with the fractal design define series (buy a used r4 or something like that if you want to save money or a new defince c) or a be quiet silent base or pure base, ... A Motherboard is what connects your components and they do fail more often than cpus. I would pick something from a well known brand such as ASUS, Gigabyte, ASRock or MSI. Some of them, though usually the higher end boards, have special DAC features such as USB DAC-UP from Gigabyte, which you might want to take a look at. The Power Supply is important for audio applications, so do not cheap out here, but don't overestimate how much power your system needs.
Look here to calculate the potential power requierement for a pc: http://enermax.outervision.com/

Look here to see, what PSU to buy (go for tier 1 if you can): https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/

and if you want to make an educated buying decision, look for the reviews on http://www.jonnyguru.com

I have had no trouble running my files from a HDD, but you might prefer a SSD for it's reduced noise. Go for a 2,5" SATA based SSD, there is no need for a M.2 based.

 

I hope this helps. Sorry for the long post.

[MirinStereo]

If anyone is interested, my Xeon E3 1231v3 does DSD to DSD Oversampling of DSD64 and above to DSD512 with poly-sinc-xtr (non -2s) no problem.

[sbenyo]

12 minutes ago, MirinStereo said:

This is all about XTR filters with DSD512.
 

We still need to see a Xeon build handle it before we can say it's the cheapest option that works.

Until now there are only the new higher end CPUs with have large L3 cache that are proven to do it.

 

 

[Mr Wensleydale]

Thank you @sbenyo and @MirinStereo   

 

You have both given me plenty to think about and research and I appreciate your feedback. 

 

I think I will try and build my own computer. Sounds like a fun project!