beerandmusic Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 SEXY http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-d2.html Link to comment
GUTB Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Encapsulated transformers, good (assuming it's not hiding a SMPS in there). Appears to be sharing one power source, bad. Clean signal paths, good. Can't see the oscillator so it's probably some tiny budget junk. Balanced topology, good. Wolfson 8741s, good. Output stage seems kind of anemic, but it's a real output stage so overall good. Reasonably priced ($2,200), good. MQA decoding, good. Link to comment
mav52 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, GUTB said: Encapsulated transformers, good (assuming it's not hiding a SMPS in there). Appears to be sharing one power source, bad. Clean signal paths, good. Can't see the oscillator so it's probably some tiny budget junk. Balanced topology, good. Wolfson 8741s, good. Output stage seems kind of anemic, but it's a real output stage so overall good. Reasonably priced ($2,200), good. MQA decoding, good. have you ever heard a Lumin ? The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 why not one PS? You don't have confidence in Lumin's engineering? Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 12 hours ago, beerandmusic said: SEXY for jazz, I prefer one that is Saxy Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: for jazz, I prefer one that is Saxy like i always say...different strokes for different folks.......i would prefer sexy and saxy Link to comment
PeterSt Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 4 hours ago, beerandmusic said: like i always say...different strokes for different folks.......i would prefer sexy and saxy But that is suxy. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 I contacted LUMIN support and asked them what kind of clock they use and if they have galvanic isolation...and this is what they responded.... Does this mean anything to anyone...it's gobley-gook to me.... They are not a consumer electronics company. They are a commercial grade broadcast reception company in both audio and video. From on line sources: To support 44.1–384kHz PCM/DXD and DSD, the Lumin runs four separate ultra-low phase-noise clock crystal oscillators from Japanese maker Nihon Dempa Kogyo. One NZ2520S Series clock is for 44.1/88.2kHz, one for 48/96kHz, one for 176.4/352.8kHz/2.8MHz and one for 192/384kHz. Since LUMIN plays PCM audio files from 44.1khz to 384khz and DSD files, LUMIN uses 4 units of NZ2520S Series Clock Oscillator. 1 for low frequency 44.1khz and multiples, 1 for low frequency 48khz and multiples, 1 for high frequency 44.1khz multiples, and 1 for high frequency 48khz multiples. The NZ2520S Series Clock Oscillator is used due to their ultra-low phase noise property. Together with a circuit board designed specifically for audio application, we believe the combination gives the best audio performance. Lumin power supplies are so quiet (broadcast grade), and their board designs and architecture are “closed end systems,” therefore eliminating the need to use any type noise suppression. That would defiantly add noise to the system, not reduce it. If you want clarity, you do it in proper design and systems engineering, not through filters or suppression. The M1 and D1 are completely different architectures for different application use. The M1 uses a TI architecture for D/A conversion and the D1 uses Wolfson. Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 The power supply is internal now, thus avoids all the complicated questions and compliance for external power supplies, would have driven Lumin nuts fielding the questions. Heh, it's a switch-mode, SPS (switching power supply). To enclose the PSU in a box, certainly stops the crud getting out and really, there's not much load and therefore power needed for an all in one like the D2. DSD128 over Ethernet is very welcome. Suits me fine, since I don't have any music files higher than this. Impressive enclosure, and welcome in black. At least 4 stars even without listening AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 51 minutes ago, beerandmusic said: I contacted LUMIN support and asked them what kind of clock they use and if they have galvanic isolation...and this is what they responded.... Does this mean anything to anyone...it's gobley-gook to me.... They are not a consumer electronics company. They are a commercial grade broadcast reception company in both audio and video. From on line sources: To support 44.1–384kHz PCM/DXD and DSD, the Lumin runs four separate ultra-low phase-noise clock crystal oscillators from Japanese maker Nihon Dempa Kogyo. One NZ2520S Series clock is for 44.1/88.2kHz, one for 48/96kHz, one for 176.4/352.8kHz/2.8MHz and one for 192/384kHz. Since LUMIN plays PCM audio files from 44.1khz to 384khz and DSD files, LUMIN uses 4 units of NZ2520S Series Clock Oscillator. 1 for low frequency 44.1khz and multiples, 1 for low frequency 48khz and multiples, 1 for high frequency 44.1khz multiples, and 1 for high frequency 48khz multiples. The NZ2520S Series Clock Oscillator is used due to their ultra-low phase noise property. Together with a circuit board designed specifically for audio application, we believe the combination gives the best audio performance. Lumin power supplies are so quiet (broadcast grade), and their board designs and architecture are “closed end systems,” therefore eliminating the need to use any type noise suppression. That would defiantly add noise to the system, not reduce it. If you want clarity, you do it in proper design and systems engineering, not through filters or suppression. The M1 and D1 are completely different architectures for different application use. The M1 uses a TI architecture for D/A conversion and the D1 uses Wolfson. These aren't OXCO types, and given the quantities Lumin use the price would be well into the 5 figures. Doesn't mean to say the SQ is lousy, would be far from it. On the question of galvanic isolation, the main input here is over Ethernet, so long as you don't use shielded Ethernet cables, it's all good. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
GUTB Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 1 hour ago, beerandmusic said: I contacted LUMIN support and asked them what kind of clock they use and if they have galvanic isolation...and this is what they responded.... Does this mean anything to anyone...it's gobley-gook to me.... They are not a consumer electronics company. They are a commercial grade broadcast reception company in both audio and video. From on line sources: To support 44.1–384kHz PCM/DXD and DSD, the Lumin runs four separate ultra-low phase-noise clock crystal oscillators from Japanese maker Nihon Dempa Kogyo. One NZ2520S Series clock is for 44.1/88.2kHz, one for 48/96kHz, one for 176.4/352.8kHz/2.8MHz and one for 192/384kHz. Since LUMIN plays PCM audio files from 44.1khz to 384khz and DSD files, LUMIN uses 4 units of NZ2520S Series Clock Oscillator. 1 for low frequency 44.1khz and multiples, 1 for low frequency 48khz and multiples, 1 for high frequency 44.1khz multiples, and 1 for high frequency 48khz multiples. The NZ2520S Series Clock Oscillator is used due to their ultra-low phase noise property. Together with a circuit board designed specifically for audio application, we believe the combination gives the best audio performance. Lumin power supplies are so quiet (broadcast grade), and their board designs and architecture are “closed end systems,” therefore eliminating the need to use any type noise suppression. That would defiantly add noise to the system, not reduce it. If you want clarity, you do it in proper design and systems engineering, not through filters or suppression. The M1 and D1 are completely different architectures for different application use. The M1 uses a TI architecture for D/A conversion and the D1 uses Wolfson. Okay, so these appear to be teensy-tiny baby simple oscillators with no form of accuracy/stability control (VC, TC, OC, etc). I don’t disbelieve them when they say that they’re low phase noise and that’s good....but the real reason why they chose them was because they appear to cost $1 a piece lol. A Crystek 957 runs $25. A Vectron OCXO can run over $100. They are using two clocks, one for each rate family (44.1 and 48 kHz). That’s the proper way to do it, too bad they cheaped out monster-style on the silicon. Link to comment
GUTB Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 1 hour ago, One and a half said: The power supply is internal now, thus avoids all the complicated questions and compliance for external power supplies, would have driven Lumin nuts fielding the questions. Heh, it's a switch-mode, SPS (switching power supply). To enclose the PSU in a box, certainly stops the crud getting out and really, there's not much load and therefore power needed for an all in one like the D2. DSD128 over Ethernet is very welcome. Suits me fine, since I don't have any music files higher than this. Impressive enclosure, and welcome in black. At least 4 stars even without listening SMPS....and into the trash it goes. Seriously they did a lot right from what I can tell, would it have murdered them to put a linear power supply in there? Link to comment
rickca Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 7 hours ago, GUTB said: SMPS....and into the trash it goes. Not all SMPS are cheap and bad. My $10K Aeris DAC comes with an outboard SMPS. The only available upgrade is an $8K ultracapacitor PS. Oh, it also has a VCXO which you said was bad. I guess you think Jeff Rowland doesn't know how to make good design decisions. I think implementation is important. Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
matthias Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 On 17.11.2017 at 12:19 PM, beerandmusic said: SEXY http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-d2.html Not at all. From an exterior design perspective (maybe interior too?) Lumin tries to copy Linn Akurate gear. I never liked this design. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 Regardless of any of this, I know the D1 gets really good reviews..... Still at the top of my list until something better comes around for less? For those that bash it, any suggestions of a streamer/dac for less? Do you think an oppo 205 would best it? Link to comment
Norton Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 9 hours ago, GUTB said: SMPS....and into the trash it goes. Seriously they did a lot right from what I can tell, would it have murdered them to put a linear power supply in there? SMPS don't seem to have done Chord much harm, as Rob Watts elaborates here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-270 and please don't bother making any comments unless you can back it up with your own listening experience, with DAVE for example... Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 Support also stated this about their ps ....for whatever it is worth.... Lumin power supplies are so quiet (broadcast grade), and their board designs and architecture are “closed end systems,” therefore eliminating the need to use any type noise suppression. That would defiantly add noise to the system, not reduce it. If you want clarity, you do it in proper design and systems engineering, not through filters or suppression Link to comment
GUTB Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 BTW I have no idea what a “closed system” is in relation to power supplies. Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 2 hours ago, GUTB said: BTW I have no idea what a “closed system” is in relation to power supplies. Perhaps that no noise escapes or is let in as the most optimistic reply, reality of course can be radically different. The Lumin is remarkably well sealed physically , so emitted noise shouldn’t leak, so that only leaves conducted noise to worry about. If there are HDD directly attached, there’s another issue altogether. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 11 hours ago, matthias said: Not at all. From an exterior design perspective (maybe interior too?) Lumin tries to copy Linn Akurate gear. I never liked this design. Matt I don’t mind the design, could live with it. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 1:30 AM, GUTB said: SMPS....and into the trash it goes. Seriously they did a lot right from what I can tell, would it have murdered them to put a linear power supply in there? LOL. Where is your trash can located? "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
GUTB Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, rodrigaj said: LOL. Where is your trash can located? Seriously, would it have killed them? Did they have to cheap out on that too? Well, considering the price, maybe they felt they had to. Link to comment
rodrigaj Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 FWIW... I had a long conversation with a knowledgeable dealer yesterday (Ciamara - as a sponsor of CA, I will mention his name) about Lumin and the Lumin product line. The T1, A1 and U1 were all included in the conversation as well as the D2. Do you know which product was recommended? The D2. The only mention of $$ was when I said that the S1 was out of my price range. I think that speaks volumes for the D2. The D2 is definitely on my short list for an upgrade to my digital kit. "The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought", Sir Thomas Beecham. Link to comment
randyhat Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I wonder if the D1 with an aftermarket external PS (like the SBooster) sounds better than the D2 with it's internal PS? Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, randyhat said: I wonder if the D1 with an aftermarket external PS (like the SBooster) sounds better than the D2 with it's internal PS? The D2 has a processor that can cope with DSD128, so it will easily work with PCM at least 'a little better', less overhead less noise doctrine. At the lower end of the model line up, the D2 has to work, since it pays the bills. I daresay the other Lumin models will also be revamped, eg the T1 to decode DSD128 to fill the gap. For the size of the microrendu and others like it that can handle DSD512, it seems the Lumin is lagging in the processor front, so this is dependant on the layout and software that runs the device. So maybe a renderer and a conventional DAC would win over the Lumin keeping in mind, there's a lot more hardware to support the outboard renderers and the spaghetti that goes with it, which a lot of people will have resistance to. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now