Beginner's Guide to Digital Audio Playback System

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

the most important thing for SQ is the speaker - some small $3k box is not going to give you audiophile sound

 

OTOH, a high-end vs. a decent amp or pre-amp will make a smaller difference

 

Not necessarily.

 The room and the listening position also matters with less expensive speakers too.

There may also be a marked difference between higher performing DACs , preamps, Power Amplifiers etc. especially when used in combination. You don't need to spend huge amounts of money either, just wisely choose a better than average sample of each item.

Have you ever heard a Nelson Pass 100W/Ch. Class A amplifier into decent speakers ?

[GUTB]

The difference in importance between components isn’t a simple sliding scale, and it’s also not as a simple as achieving “balance”.

 

What it boils down to is this: Up until a certain minimum point, every component can impose a killer limitation on the system as a whole. For example, Focal Diablo Utopia IIIs will sound like trash if you run them off an Emotiva. No matter what you do, no matter if you pay 100k to have a perfect listening room renovated by pros, you will NEVER get that system to sound good. The amp doesn’t meet the minimum quality requirement. Moving up to, say, a McIntosh amp would result in a total transformation of the system — would a Pass amp sound a lot better? Yup — but the point is, you’ve successfully crossed the boundary from junk to good, where the system can operate at something approaching its full capabilities by eliminating the critical bottleneck.

 

The traditional wisdom is to max out on the speakers — but that experienced audiophiles know that’s bull. When it comes to speakers, though, the better the better; they will always work to maximize the performance of your chain while being there show greater improvements as you move up. But if you go in with an Emotiva and Schiit being fed from your laptop while spending 5K on speakers, your system is going to suck. The amp and source, up to a certain level, CAN’T be ignored.

[Ralf11]

The traditional wisdom is to spend half or more of the budget on the speakers — because experienced audiophiles know that’s best.

[Norton]

18 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

 

 But if you go in with an Emotiva and Schiit being fed from your laptop while spending 5K on speakers, your system is going to suck. 

 

The "GUTB suck" strikes again!  Quite a brave statement, especially  on this site.  Care to back it up with your own listening experience of these products?

[GUTB]

3 minutes ago, Norton said:

 

The "GUTB suck" strikes again!  Quite a brave statement, especially  on this site.  Care to back it up with your own listening experience of these products?

 

Sure. I gave the Emotiva BasX 300 an audition. Big transformer, class A/B how bad could it be?? Actually, VERY bad. Trash. Only the god-awful class D Teac integrated from Amazon was worse. A cheesy $600 SET from China crushed it. My current LinnenberG Allegros turns the Emotiva into a laughing stock. I used to have the incorrect opinion that if it had a big linear power supply and was A or A/B it would be good.

[Norton]

13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

Sure. I gave the Emotiva BasX 300 an audition. Big transformer, class A/B how bad could it be?? Actually, VERY bad. Trash. Only the god-awful class D Teac integrated from Amazon was worse. A cheesy $600 SET from China crushed it. My current LinnenberG Allegros turns the Emotiva into a laughing stock. I used to have the incorrect opinion that if it had a big linear power supply and was A or A/B it would be good.

 

And how about the Schiit you identified as contributing to your "sucking system"?

[GUTB]

Just now, Norton said:

 

And how about the Schiit you identified as contributing to your "sucking system"?

 

For example if they paired the cheap amp to an el-cheapo Schiit DAC like the Modi which is a pretty low-performance DAC.

[Norton]

14 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

For example if they paired the cheap amp to an el-cheapo Schiit DAC like the Modi which is a pretty low-performance DAC.

 

You still haven't backed up your claims re. Schiit with listening experience.  I've never heard Schiit gear, but it seems pretty popular with a decent cross section of the community.

[Johnseye]

19 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

Sure. I gave the Emotiva BasX 300 an audition. Big transformer, class A/B how bad could it be?? Actually, VERY bad. Trash. Only the god-awful class D Teac integrated from Amazon was worse. A cheesy $600 SET from China crushed it. My current LinnenberG Allegros turns the Emotiva into a laughing stock. I used to have the incorrect opinion that if it had a big linear power supply and was A or A/B it would be good.

 

It's a $400 amp... 

[GUTB]

11 minutes ago, Norton said:

 

You still haven't backed up your claims re. Schiit with listening experience.  I've never heard Schiit gear, but it seems pretty popular with a decent cross section of the community.

 

I own the Modi 2 Uber, and it’s the weakest DAC I own, beaten by the DragonFly Red and a Chinese custom unit from eBay. It’s not even remotely competitive with the Gustard X20U. 

[beerandmusic]

On 11/20/2017 at 3:46 PM, GUTB said:

 Moving up to, say, a McIntosh amp would result in a total transformation of the system — would a Pass amp sound a lot better? Yup —

 

Hogwash on general statements like this.....Depends on model....

 

Example:

One of pass's most prized amps (threshold S200) didn't hold a candle to my MA6500....just one of 100s of comparisons to disprove such ludicrous "general statements". 

 

Suggest you try not to generalize or offer opinions of equipment you haven't heard.

[Ralf11]

7 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

It's a $400 amp... 

 

ok, so the $600 Chinese SET amp sounded better than the $400 amp ???

 

underwhelming news

[Johnseye]

7 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

ok, so the $600 Chinese SET amp sounded better than the $400 amp ???

 

underwhelming news

 

I'm underwhelmed by the comparisons, opinions and facts. 

[davide256]

On 11/20/2017 at 7:02 PM, Ralf11 said:

The traditional wisdom is to spend half or more of the budget on the speakers — because experienced audiophiles know that’s best.

Wow... flashback to the audio store pirates of the 60's  and 70's   It's how some very bad systems were sold.

 

I'd flip that around. Buy some Zu Omen's or some Magnepan 1.7's  based on your preference. Speakers are very much an individual preference,  but these are excellent

and hopefully will satisfy  most for around $2300. Now that you have made a speaker choice, the speaker efficiency is going to affect the rest of your budget allocation, your going to need more amp for the less efficient Magnepans. Plan on spending around $4000 for a source solution ( digital server solution +DAC or vinyl rig + separate phone pre-amp) Spend the remainder on tube or solid state amplification based on your preference but make sure the amp wattage is appropriate. Think of your audio system as a whisper chain where the last element in the chain has a regional accent...you want to order the best whisperer source solution you can up front  vs a lesser component where the information won't even get into the chain. And you really need that last whisperer to be an accent you can easily understand.