MAC USERS

[Ralf11]

Yes, I can go back.

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

You can fix all your problems with Windows! 

 

That's right, you can trade all your Mac problems for Windows problems and at the same time, get to experience the clunkiest mishmash of borrowed features, poorly integrated GUI concepts, and poorly designed software on the planet! Yeah, that's what I want!

[Ralf11]

3rd Senior Advisor has finally escalated both problems to engineering

[elcorso]

46 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

That's right, you can trade all your Mac problems for Windows problems and at the same time, get to experience the clunkiest mishmash of borrowed features, poorly integrated GUI concepts, and poorly designed software on the planet! Yeah, that's what I want!

 

+100

 

But Mac OS X look to me like going the Windows way ...

 

I'm still on 10.10 Mavericks for my Mac dedicated music server.  I don't need more OS X upgrades for this job.  For my others Macs I wait until some of the big bugs are solved to make the OS X upgrade.  But I only can see gadgets and some better integration with iOS devices, but nothing extraordinary.

 

Roch

[lucretius]

13 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 

That's right, you can trade all your Mac problems for Windows problems and at the same time, get to experience the clunkiest mishmash of borrowed features, poorly integrated GUI concepts, and poorly designed software on the planet! Yeah, that's what I want!

Seems like Mac users have a lot of "Windows" problems.  Over the years, the few Windows problems I've had were easily fixed.

[Ralf11]

I agree.  It could be a shift or engineering resources to phones - or magic speaker dots.

 

Or it could be related to an accumulation of historical code needed compatibility - something akin to junk DNA in organisms (there is a great essay on this by the late Stephen Jay Gould).

 

or it could be bit rot...

[gmgraves]

7 hours ago, lucretius said:

Seems like Mac users have a lot of "Windows" problems.  Over the years, the few Windows problems I've had were easily fixed.

 

So, you're saying that Windows system upgrades don't have teething problems? You've never had applications die when you upgrade to a new OS release? Or had Windows ask you to re-install some mission critical apps from their source? Gimme a break and lighten up. I was just being sarcastic!

[gmgraves]

20 hours ago, elcorso said:

 

+100

 

But Mac OS X look to me like going the Windows way ...

 

I'm still on 10.10 Mavericks for my Mac dedicated music server.  I don't need more OS X upgrades for this job.  For my others Macs I wait until some of the big bugs are solved to make the OS X upgrade.  But I only can see gadgets and some better integration with iOS devices, but nothing extraordinary.

 

Roch

I've stopped at El Capitan for my MacBook Pro. All I use it for is music, and that's all I need. I would like to upgrade my home office Mac with High-Sierra and will probably do so.

[mjb]

One thing thats improved a lot in High Sierra is SMB file sharing. It’s noticeably much faster/better at moving files to/from my Aries. This alone was worth updating for me. 

 

[lucretius]

22 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 

So, you're saying that Windows system upgrades don't have teething problems? You've never had applications die when you upgrade to a new OS release? Or had Windows ask you to re-install some mission critical apps from their source? Gimme a break and lighten up. I was just being sarcastic!

 

I've said I had minor problems. The only apps that died on upgrade were old 16 bit applications that were no longer supported after XP.  I have on occasion, reinstalled an app after an OS upgrade.  And I had third party applications that did things in non-standard/non-supported ways that required a little hacking after an OS upgrade.

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, lucretius said:

 

I've said I had minor problems. The only apps that died on upgrade were old 16 bit applications that were no longer supported after XP.  I have on occasion, reinstalled an app after an OS upgrade.  And I had third party applications that did things in non-standard/non-supported ways that required a little hacking after an OS upgrade.

 

It's just the same with a Mac, only to a lesser degree. Apple never foisted such a universally reviled abomination as Windows Vista on it's users, that's for sure. Windows might be ubiquitous, and it might work OK for most people, but it isn't fun to use and has never been anything other than an unbelievably bad operating system and a pain in the ass going all the back to MSDOS and Windows 1! I've used both for years, as well as Linux, and I have to say that even the last few iterations of ubuntu Linux are better than Windows 10, and that's saying something. Just my opinion, you understand.

[Ralf11]

On 11/17/2017 at 4:08 PM, Ralf11 said:

3rd Senior Advisor has finally escalated both problems to engineering

 

Update: Morons called me when scheduled even though Engineering did not get back to them and Moron 19.1 did NOT know whether Engineering HAD gotten back to them.  He connected me with Moron 19.2 (aka, 4th Senior Advisor) who was able to find out that Engineering would not have had time to do anything by the time of the scheduled call-back.  The systemic problem (one of them) seems to be that they have a Support system based on McDonalds -- call backs are scheduled after 2 days no matter what.

 

re: Windoz - the big upgrade to Windows some years ago was done by the same guys who engineered VAX VMS.  I met them in the wilds of the Washington Cascades by chance, and while sitting around a campfire emphasized that millions of scientists and engineers were depending on them "We are all waiting on you guys for the tools we need."  I still recall my exact words.

[lucretius]

5 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 

It's just the same with a Mac, only to a lesser degree. Apple never foisted such a universally reviled abomination as Windows Vista on it's users, that's for sure. Windows might be ubiquitous, and it might work OK for most people, but it isn't fun to use and has never been anything other than an unbelievably bad operating system and a pain in the ass going all the back to MSDOS and Windows 1! I've used both for years, as well as Linux, and I have to say that even the last few iterations of ubuntu Linux are better than Windows 10, and that's saying something. Just my opinion, you understand.

 

I am familiar with MacOS. I run a copy of Sierra in a VM on my desktop (previously El Capitan, Yosemite, & Mavericks). I can't say that I'm impressed.  

[gmgraves]

12 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

I am familiar with MacOS. I run a copy of Sierra in a VM on my desktop (previously El Capitan, Yosemite, & Mavericks). I can't say that I'm impressed.  

 

To each his own. I've used MSDOS, and Windows for many years starting with Win3.0 and I have always found it a PITA! In fact, I still own a Toshiba Laptop running Win10. It looks to me that MS never fixes Windows most annoying problems as they continue in each and every release. I guess MS feels some responsibility to all of those many thousands of "IT Professionals" who are necessary to keep the lousy system running. If they fixed Win's problems, their would be no need for each corporate entity to hire cadres of techs who run around all day fixing people's Windows problems and chasing malware and adware to ground.

[elcorso]

5 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

To each his own. I've used MSDOS, and Windows for many years starting with Win3.0 and I have always found it a PITA! In fact, I still own a Toshiba Laptop running Win10. It looks to me that MS never fixes Windows most annoying problems as they continue in each and every release. I guess MS feels some responsibility to all of those many thousands of "IT Professionals" who are necessary to keep the lousy system running. If they fixed Win's problems, their would be no need for each corporate entity to hire cadres of techs who run around all day fixing people's Windows problems and chasing malware and adware to ground.

 

At least Win OS it is a great job generator    Many friends under Windows waiting for the "IT Professionals" (or some friend with skills) to fix their PCs, but no one under Mac OS ...!

 

But the virtue I envy of Win users is they get special "drivers" for music players with easy!

 

Roch

[lucretius]

14 minutes ago, elcorso said:

At least Win OS it is a great job generator    Many friends under Windows waiting for the "IT Professionals" (or some friend with skills) to fix their PCs, but no one under Mac OS ...!

 

macOS has not made a significant dent in the enterprise world.

[gmgraves]

5 hours ago, elcorso said:

 

At least Win OS it is a great job generator    Many friends under Windows waiting for the "IT Professionals" (or some friend with skills) to fix their PCs, but no one under Mac OS ...!

 

But the virtue I envy of Win users is they get special "drivers" for music players with easy!

 

Roch

 

About 10 years ago, I worked for a company that was all Mac. They had about 260 iMacs and I was, by virtue of my long experience with them, the sole "IT guy" in the company and I did that job along with the technical marketing job that I was hired to do! It was OK, because I little to do as most employees never had a moment's trouble with their Macs. 

 

Since it was a Japanese company, the US division did what the mother company in Japan told them to do. One day an edict came down from on-high that the US Division was to change over to Windows PCs immediately in order to be in-line with the mother company. So out went the lovely (and almost new) iMacs in favor of Windoze desktop and laptop computers. In no time, an IT manager and three IT techs were hired to administer the same number of Windoze boxes (roughly 260) that I had administered when the company was all Mac!  one of the smaller conference rooms was turned into a "computer lab" where the IT techs hung out (I had and needed no computer lab when we were all Mac) and of course, the employees now had constant problems and complained endlessly about how much more trouble everything was under Windoze! Well, the home office got what they wanted: higher operating costs and lower productivity, 

4 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

macOS has not made a significant dent in the enterprise world.

 

Correct, but believe me, that is not because Windoze is a better platform than the Mac. It has everything to do with the fact that the corporate suits who make these decisions generally don't know anything about the subject and figure that the safe bet is to do what everybody else does and goes with the system that represents the lowest initial investment. There's an old British saying that sums it up quite well: "Penny wise and pound foolish". 

[gmgraves]

5 hours ago, elcorso said:

 

At least Win OS it is a great job generator    Many friends under Windows waiting for the "IT Professionals" (or some friend with skills) to fix their PCs, but no one under Mac OS ...!

 

But the virtue I envy of Win users is they get special "drivers" for music players with easy!

 

Roch

That's the reason why MS never fixes any of Window's many design problems. They just keep adding layers of complexity and plastering over the system's many shortcomings. The OS has millions of lines of code many of which no longer do anything and every time they add a feature, it get's longer. Ay least that's what I've heard from people who say they've seen the source code. I wouldn't know, I'm not a programmer.  

[AudioDoctor]

I am using the 4th Developer Beta of 10.13.2 and have zero issues, other than some incongruities with reporting of disk usage.

 

Even on my Mac mini from 2011.  APFS works fine on a spinning drive as long as that drive is INSIDE the computer.  I think it has even sped up the mini a bit, maybe APFS and High Sierra are just better at utilizing the SSD, who knows.

 

I hear there are time machine problems as well, the backups have become much larger.  I have temporarily suspended the backups to my NAS just incase, and am just going to an external drive via Thunderbolt/USB 3.0.

 

in other words, no showstoppers at all with High Sierra

[mrvco]

On 11/20/2017 at 9:54 AM, lucretius said:

 

macOS has not made a significant dent in the enterprise world.

 

That's because enterprise IT owes its prevalence in large part to the support requirements for Windows clients.  I worked for a Korean company up until recently and they actually gave US employees a choice between Mac and Windows when you started, US employees were encouraged to choose Mac since Mac users placed far less of a burden on the already understaffed / overworked IT department (located half a world away in Seoul).

 

The company I'm working for now (not US based either) had no idea that so many of their remote employees were using their personal Macs (and had been for years) instead of the Dell bricks they were issued.  I inadvertently let the cat out of the bag when I offered to return my unused Dell brick for redeployment, but fortunately they saw fit to change the policy since I needed to be able to run xCode.

 

Regardless, it's really more about which OS you're comfortable using.  I still maintain a Windows 10 gaming PC (I've been using Windows in some form since 2.1x), but I'm far more comfortable with the quirks of OS X than I am with the quirks of Windows 10 for anything but gaming.

[jhwalker]

Just now, mrvco said:

 

That's because enterprise IT owes its prevalence in large part to the support requirements for Windows clients.  I worked for a Korean company up until recently and they actually gave US employees a choice between Mac and Windows when you started, US employees were encouraged to choose Mac since Mac users placed far less of a burden on the already understaffed / overworked IT department (located half a world away in Seoul).

 

The company I'm working for now (not US based either) had no idea that so many of their remote employees were using their personal Macs (and had been for years) instead of the Dell bricks they were issued.  I inadvertently let the cat out of the bag when I offered to return my unused Dell brick for redeployment, but fortunately they saw fit to change the policy since I needed to be able to run xCode.

 

Regardless, it's really more about which OS you're comfortable using.  I still maintain a Windows 10 gaming PC (I've been using Windows in some form since 2.1x), but I'm far more comfortable with the quirks of OS X than I am with the quirks of Windows 10 for anything but gaming.

 

Similar - my large US-based IT company switched over primarily to Macs a few years back and they have been very well received.  Much easier to support and maintain over time.

 

For example, where they used test any new releases of Windows for many months prior to any mass upgrades, the last few versions of OS X (now macOS) have been accepted and supported on Day One.

 

Similarly, my main customer uses a mix of Macs and PCs, trending toward releasing more Macs over time.

 

Not to say there will never be an issue, or that the tide will not turn back, but in my experience there is a larger Mac presence now in corporate America than ever before.

[mrvco]

Security PSA: If you're running High Sierra... disable the "Guest" account (if it's enabled) and follow the instructions posted by Apple here:

 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204012

 

If I were on Apple's OS X QA team, I'd probably be calling in sick tomorrow 

[GregWormald]

wrong forum

[mjb]

15 hours ago, mrvco said:

Security PSA: If you're running High Sierra... disable the "Guest" account (if it's enabled) and follow the instructions posted by Apple here:

 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204012

 

If I were on Apple's OS X QA team, I'd probably be calling in sick tomorrow 

Apple have just released a security fix, and it's recommended to install it as soon as possible. At least Apple responded within 24 hours.

 

[daverich4]

On 11/29/2017 at 12:31 PM, mjb said:

Apple have just released a security fix, and it's recommended to install it as soon as possible. At least Apple responded within 24 hours.

 

 

It’s my understanding that Apple considered the update so important they installed it for you whether you have auto updating turned off or not.