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Off the shelf fanless low power computers


nbpf

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When it comes to off the shelf computers for running dedicated music servers, players or integrated server + renderer solutions, many users appear to opt for a mac mini. Mac minis are relatively power hungry, come with an electrically noisy internal fan and are rather expensive. Is there a particular reason to prefer mac minis to fanless, low-power devices like those of the Fitlet ranges (https://www.tinygreenpc.com/computers/fitlet.htmlhttps://www.tinygreenpc.com/fitlet2-unique-intel-apollo-lake-micro-pc-for-iot), NUC devices or, for even lower power, Raspberry Pi devices?  

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Not really. Some people just like Apple and Mac minis. 

 

Several years ago, before there really were specialized audio playback/music server PCs being produced, the Mini was generally thought to be a superior sounding player/server than the parallel off the shelf Windows PCs.

 

 Today there are lots of relatively quiet Windows and Linux based solutions, some especially designed and built for audio. Most people today opt for those solutions, unless they particularly want a Mac. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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12 minutes ago, firedog said:

...

 

 Today there are lots of relatively quiet Windows and Linux based solutions, some especially designed and built for audio. Most people today opt for those solutions, unless they particularly want a Mac. 

Thanks! What would be today's options for a low-power server+renderer designed and built for audio and certified for a generic Linux distribution? The SOtM SMS-200Ultra comes to mind but it is not clear that one can run a generic Linux distribution on it. The Pi is probably the best supported platform but the general wisdom seems to be that it is not particularly well suited for audio replay ...  

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You don't necessarily need a Linux distro to run the best SoC mobo  for the best SQ.  It's all about building your own SOtM component server with the sCLK-EX.  They will do the clock mods for you.  I have found that optimization and OS hardly matter as much with a sCLK-EX server.  Windows 10 is sufficient and best choice for versatility in drivers and media playback software (I use JRiver). 

Here is a good mobo I would recommend,  http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF596.html

There will soon be more feedback from others on these mobos used and modified for the sCLK-EX build at this thread,

 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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4 minutes ago, firedog said:

 

Generic Linux? I don't know how many commerical server/renderers like that there are. Most of the Linux ones seem to be a specialized stripped down version of Linux, designed to run only the audio software they need. And often the Linux version is optimized for the particular hardware and software. 

Try allo.com They make some audio specialized versions that take a relatively generic version of Linux, AFAIK. But they aren't servers, per se, they are renderers (playback devices). 

You might be better off thinking about a generic Linux server and a separate, relatively inexpensive specialized Linux based renderer like the Allo units, or similar devices by other companies. Those start at prices like those of the Allo devices and go as high as 25 times that for hi-end audiophile devices. Most of us think that type  of setup works and sounds better ,anyway. 

There is nothing wrong selling a dedicated device with a proprietary distribution, of course. Without knowing that I can install Debian, Mint or another standard Linux distribution if I fancy to do so, however, I would not buy any SMS-200Ultra, ultraRendu, etc., no matter how cheap these devices might be. But I would not mind investing in a off-the-shelf server that has been designed and built for exceptional audio replay quality and that can run (beside proprietary OSs) a standard Linux distribution. The Allo DigiOne is one such devices but, while it is a great value for the money, it is not better than my current system, I am afraid. 

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11 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

You don't necessarily need a Linux distro to run the best SoC mobo  for the best SQ.  It's all about building your own SOtM component server with the sCLK-EX.  They will do the clock mods for you.  I have found that optimization and OS hardly matter as much with a sCLK-EX server.  Windows 10 is sufficient and best choice for versatility in drivers and media playback software (I use JRiver). 

Here is a good mobo I would recommend,  http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF596.html

There will soon be more feedback from others on these mobos used and modified for the sCLK-EX build at this thread,

 

Yes, I am aware of this possibility, thanks for the pointers! The idea of the thread, however, is to discuss off the shelf alternatives to the apparently evergreen mac mini. Are there meanwhile significantly better alternatives? Are there rules of thumb or guidelines for selecting a device to be deployed as a server or as a server + renderer? What do we know about modern off the shelf devices? Which platforms are more suitable for being powered by a low-noise, low-power LPS? 

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31 minutes ago, nbpf said:

Yes, I am aware of this possibility, thanks for the pointers! The idea of the thread, however, is to discuss off the shelf alternatives to the apparently evergreen mac mini. Are there meanwhile significantly better alternatives? Are there rules of thumb or guidelines for selecting a device to be deployed as a server or as a server + renderer? What do we know about modern off the shelf devices? Which platforms are more suitable for being powered by a low-noise, low-power LPS? 

Your the one that mentioned the sms-200Ultra.  Your in no way confined to that build or any renderer if you DIY the sCLK-EX clocking board (in all SOtM ultra products) to the mobo you desire.  With that in mind, then your next choice is the mobo that fits the parameters of your preferred software choice in OS and media player, along with source/endpoint of data streaming.   Thus which mobo would you desire to modify? 

 

I prefer bit perfect playback for my Chord DAC, so I want the lowest power DC mobo as possible that can accommodate my add ons, like a tXUSBexp Pcie card (also clocked from the sCLK-EX).

 

We do know that commercial mobos are not built for reduced electrical noise.  But cost wise, we don't have an alternative at the moment so we live with it.  Thus the small low powered mobos for reduced electrical noise and low impedance.   Also commercial mobos have poor clocking for audio.  Thus the sCLK-EX modification.

 

There is no rule of thumb!

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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It seems to me, any computer for audio must be able to check all these boxes:

 

1. Able to accept a SATA filter or allow external powering (ie, regular SATA port).

2. Able to accept linear power (19V NUC or 12V ATX LPSUs).

3. Fanless.

 

Optimally, it should also have:

 

4. Ability to run 65-91W TDP CPUs for HQPlayer

5. Room for an audiophile-grade USB card.

 

So anything that can’t handle requirements 1-3 should be automatically rejected.

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20 minutes ago, GUTB said:

It seems to me, any computer for audio must be able to check all these boxes:

 

1. Able to accept a SATA filter or allow external powering (ie, regular SATA port).

2. Able to accept linear power (19V NUC or 12V ATX LPSUs).

3. Fanless.

 

Optimally, it should also have:

 

4. Ability to run 65-91W TDP CPUs for HQPlayer

5. Room for an audiophile-grade USB card.

 

So anything that can’t handle requirements 1-3 should be automatically rejected.

Does a mac mini fulfill 1?

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There are lots of little fanless PCs that will work okay as a server or renderer, and most of them will run Ubuntu 16 and up.  The Azulle Byte Plus is particularly nice build, sounds pretty good and runs Ubuntu just fine:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KY0Y26I/ref=twister_B01MXV2LRD?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

There are also Intel NUCs with more power, but they also cost almost as much as a Mac Mini.

 

IMO, the key is configurability and upgradability.  I just built an all-in-one server using this motherboard:

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157714

 

Comes with power supply.  It's a remarkable good-sounding board on its own, using the USB 3 outputs.

 

I used this case:

 

http://www.mitxpc.com/proddetail.php?prod=6610

 

I added two big hard drives, a small SSD for the OS, a DVD drive for playing and ripping CDs, and my SOtM USB card.  You can get a case for less than $30, depending on how much upgradability you want.  I'm building a server/player/ripper for a friend and got this: 

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811128095&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Server+-+Chassis-_-N82E16811128095&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_5_QBRC9ARIsADVww15MRGU3VZ-HTDZj3HWs9ckarqwqcrqu09pZNDaTCGxHjQJaB35vSNgaAgcrEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Perfectly nice case, with DVD-rom bay and PCIe slot.  My friend will be able to literally drop in a SOtM USB card when he's ready, and add a LPS after that.

 

A highly configurable fanless PC takes about an hour to assemble and can cost less than $200.

 

But we're talking low power here--no heavy-duty upsampling or 3D video.  This on is for playing PCM, Tidal and YouTube.  That's really all he wants.  If you want to get into clocking and that stuff, it's a different story.

 

I kind of cobbled mine together and my expectations were low but I'm actually extremely pleased with the sound, especially after the motherboard broke in a bit.

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These cases are the best. They allow for SATA filtering and room for audiophile grade cards. Importantly, unlike the cases being mentioned, they allow for passive cooling of high-power CPUs needed for high end HQPlayer integration and high quality Roon performance.

 

https://www.quietpcusa.com/Streacom-FC9-ALPHA-HTPC-Chassis.aspx

 

For those of you who want to run an a full power desktop CPU passively and are okay with ATX-sized cases:

 

https://www.quietpcusa.com/NoFan-CR-95C-IcePipe-Fanless-CPU-Cooler-P1125.aspx

 

Don't forget to filter or isolate the SATA drive:

 

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sata-filter/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hard-Disk-Drive-SATA-22Pin-to-eSATA-Data-USB-Powered-Cable-Adapter/251842432353?epid=1440605032&hash=item3aa2fa8d61:g:SWEAAOSw8d9Uyn3P

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Serial-ATA-SATA-Female-7-Pin-to-ESATA-Female-HDD-PC-Data-Adapter-Connector/111920773957?_trkparms=aid%3D555019%26algo%3DPL.BANDIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D7756a45ca166428885cffcf54d5164da%26pid%3D100706%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100706.m4781

 

SMPSUs for your computer are the devil. Be sure to budget for a linear PSU. Remember, the 12V motherboard connector has 8 pins but you only need 4:

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TeraDak-380W-music-computer-PC-dedicated-power-supply-Pure-copper-Ring-transformer-big-power/32820250604.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.16.86hvqz&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_10546_10340_10341_10548_10545_10541_10562_10084_10083_10307_5680011_10178_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10537_10312_10536_10059_10313_10314_10534_10533_100031_10103_10073_10102_10557_10558_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=a49fd892-e33b-46f9-ba57-5f27a8305503&algo_expid=628d2fc9-fc63-4632-9dc6-12277b519456-2&algo_pvid=628d2fc9-fc63-4632-9dc6-12277b519456

 

 

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@zackthedog, @GUTB Thanks for the links! I am mainly interested in low-power fanless devices and do not need/want Roon or HQPlayer. My current server+renderer is a fitPC3 (https://www.tinygreenpc.com/computers/fit-pc/fit-pc3-3i.html). It is rated at 6.5W TDP and is powered by a Teddy Pardo PSU. I would be happy with a similar mobo, ideally with the possibility of booting from a microSD card. The Streacom cases look very nice but seem to be designed for far more power-hungry motherboards. What is the advantage of a DIY solution in the 6W TDP power range if one does not add the sCLK-EX board? 

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You still need to get the SSD off the circuit, or filter it. If you don’t you’ll never have as good sound as you would otherwise have. You can boot off a SD card but just know this: the best sound comes from a dedicated audio PC with no network drives involved.

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1 hour ago, nbpf said:

@zackthedog, @GUTB Thanks for the links! I am mainly interested in low-power fanless devices and do not need/want Roon or HQPlayer. My current server+renderer is a fitPC3 (https://www.tinygreenpc.com/computers/fit-pc/fit-pc3-3i.html). It is rated at 6.5W TDP and is powered by a Teddy Pardo PSU. I would be happy with a similar mobo, ideally with the possibility of booting from a microSD card. The Streacom cases look very nice but seem to be designed for far more power-hungry motherboards. What is the advantage of a DIY solution in the 6W TDP power range if one does not add the sCLK-EX board? 

 

Well, I'm far from an expert here, but with the J3160 you're looking at more like a 25-50W power supply, depending on how much you add to it.  I use a 200W HD Plex for the motherboard and the USB card.  It handles all the peripherals without any problem.  The motherboard itself barely gets warm.

 

I haven't heard the Fit-PC so I can't say what kind of improvement you'd hear from the stock board itself, but I was just pointing out that if you want to be able to configure and upgrade a small server PC, there are very inexpensive ways to do it.

 

Booting from microSD is chancy, I believe, and very much depends on the board and the OS.  

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3 hours ago, GUTB said:

These cases are the best. They allow for SATA filtering and room for audiophile grade cards. Importantly, unlike the cases being mentioned, they allow for passive cooling of high-power CPUs needed for high end HQPlayer integration and high quality Roon performance.

 

https://www.quietpcusa.com/Streacom-FC9-ALPHA-HTPC-Chassis.aspx

 

For those of you who want to run an a full power desktop CPU passively and are okay with ATX-sized cases:

 

https://www.quietpcusa.com/NoFan-CR-95C-IcePipe-Fanless-CPU-Cooler-P1125.aspx

 

Don't forget to filter or isolate the SATA drive:

 

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sata-filter/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hard-Disk-Drive-SATA-22Pin-to-eSATA-Data-USB-Powered-Cable-Adapter/251842432353?epid=1440605032&hash=item3aa2fa8d61:g:SWEAAOSw8d9Uyn3P

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Serial-ATA-SATA-Female-7-Pin-to-ESATA-Female-HDD-PC-Data-Adapter-Connector/111920773957?_trkparms=aid%3D555019%26algo%3DPL.BANDIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D7756a45ca166428885cffcf54d5164da%26pid%3D100706%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26&_trksid=p2045573.c100706.m4781

 

SMPSUs for your computer are the devil. Be sure to budget for a linear PSU. Remember, the 12V motherboard connector has 8 pins but you only need 4:

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TeraDak-380W-music-computer-PC-dedicated-power-supply-Pure-copper-Ring-transformer-big-power/32820250604.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.16.86hvqz&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_10546_10340_10341_10548_10545_10541_10562_10084_10083_10307_5680011_10178_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10539_10537_10312_10536_10059_10313_10314_10534_10533_100031_10103_10073_10102_10557_10558_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_4&btsid=a49fd892-e33b-46f9-ba57-5f27a8305503&algo_expid=628d2fc9-fc63-4632-9dc6-12277b519456-2&algo_pvid=628d2fc9-fc63-4632-9dc6-12277b519456

 

 

 

That's some very cool stuff there, thanks.  If I may ask, what is the function of the 22-pin SATA to USB adapter?  Retain the data connection but power the SSD from a USB port?

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3 hours ago, GUTB said:

You still need to get the SSD off the circuit, or filter it. If you don’t you’ll never have as good sound as you would otherwise have. You can boot off a SD card but just know this: the best sound comes from a dedicated audio PC with no network drives involved.

All my files are stored locally, the network interface is only for the UPnP server and renderer to communicate with the control point. But I have no filters on my external USB drive. Can you suggest an enclosure for 2,5'' drives that can host the SOtM SATA filters? Thanks, nbpf

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2 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

Unless I'm mistaken, you don't need SATA filters for external drives since they are already isolated from the motherboard.  The SATA filter applies to internal drives that are powered from the motherboard's SATA power ports.

That is true on the SOtM SATA III filter.  But the SATA II filter also filters the data connection.  But who uses SATA II anymore?  Might still work on SATA III? 

I would agree, that you don't need the SATA filter if drive is externally powered.  Especially if it's powered by a good LPS, like a LPS-1.  That is why I use 2.5" HDD's 5V.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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4 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

Unless I'm mistaken, you don't need SATA filters for external drives since they are already isolated from the motherboard.  The SATA filter applies to internal drives that are powered from the motherboard's SATA power ports.

Interesting, thanks! Thus, it seems that if I am not using internal SATA drives and if my external drives are powered externally, I do not need SATA filters. What about internal mSATA drives and microSD cards?

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3 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

That is true on the SOtM SATA III filter.  But the SATA II filter also filters the data connection.  But who uses SATA II anymore?  Might still work on SATA III? 

I would agree, that you don't need the SATA filter if drive is externally powered.  Especially if it's powered by a good LPS, like a LPS-1.  That is why I use 2.5" HDD's 5V.

Thanks EC! Could you please recommend a 2.5" HDD that can be powered externally? 

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23 minutes ago, nbpf said:

Thanks EC! Could you please recommend a 2.5" HDD that can be powered externally? 

Just the biggest cheapest 5V one you can find.  4 or 5TB

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100167524 600003490 601273164 601189459

  shop around for the best deal, Ebay, Amazon.

Here's a 4TB one refurbished for $115.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAY95K29428

Get a hard drive enclosure that will allow you to connect via SATA direct, just pop off the faceplate, if your not mounting in the server case.

 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Lol, everyone is just looking for excuses not to properly manage noise.

 

SSDs dump a huge amount of electrical noise into thier 5V power rail. It doesn’t matter if it’s the 5V USB line or the 5V SATA line — it’ll end up in the rest of your computer. You have to filter the noise, or get it off your audio circuit. In the case of a USB-powered external drive, you are powering the SSD off your computer’s 5V rail and so you’ve accomplished nothing. If the drive is externally powered, the SSD noise is being dumped into the same circuit as your PC and other audio equipment — even if you do the right thing and keep your non-audio gear off the audio circuit or use a mains filter, the dirty power of the external enclosure is still going to get into your computer via the USB line.

 

SSD noise can’t be allowed to get into your PC, and you don’t want it on the audio circuit at all.

 

Some people use mains conditioners or regenerating AC supplies to make sure clean power components are secure from noisy ones on the same circuit. Another valid way is to run your audio gear from another room’s unused circuit. There’s medical-grade isolation transformers.

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1 minute ago, GUTB said:

Lol, everyone is just looking for excuses not to properly manage noise.

 

SSDs dump a huge amount of electrical noise into thier 5V power rail. It doesn’t matter if it’s the 5V USB line or the 5V SATA line — it’ll end up in the rest of your computer. You have to filter the noise, or get it off your audio circuit. In the case of a USB-powered external drive, you are powering the SSD off your computer’s 5V rail and so you’ve accomplished nothing. If the drive is externally powered, the SSD noise is being dumped into the same circuit as your PC and other audio equipment — even if you do the right thing and keep your non-audio gear off the audio circuit or use a mains filter, the dirty power of the external enclosure is still going to get into your computer via the USB line.

 

SSD noise can’t be allowed to get into your PC, and you don’t want it on the audio circuit at all.

 

Some people use mains conditioners or regenerating AC supplies to make sure clean power components are secure from noisy ones on the same circuit. Another valid way is to run your audio gear from another room’s unused circuit. There’s medical-grade isolation transformers.

 

I stand corrected. ;-)

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