MQA Off-Topic Spinoff

[PeterSt]

4 minutes ago, #Yoda# said:

Lindsey Stirling - Warmer In The Winter is available as 24/48 in Europe at Qobuz and HDtracks.

 

And on Tidal in MQA (24/48).

 

Hey, was I on topic there or what.

[synn]

3 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

And on Tidal in MQA (24/48).

 

Hey, was I on topic there or what.

 Nice.

 

Not sure what the latest promo material for MQA says, but will it magically make up for the dynamic compression implemented at the mastering stage?

[rickca]

13 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’m 41.

I'd like to help you son but you're too young to vote.

The Who, Summertime Blues

[Brian Lucey]

5 hours ago, mansr said:

Stop it already. This bickering is distracting from the real conversation. Brian delivers what his clients desire, as should any professional. If you happen to not share those tastes, then don't listen to that music. Now get back to exterminating MQA.

Thank you

 

33 minutes ago, mansr said:

MQA will turn on the blue LED of reassurance. That's all you need. And all you need to know.

lol

41 minutes ago, synn said:

 Nice.

 

Not sure what the latest promo material for MQA says, but will it magically make up for the dynamic compression implemented at the mastering stage?

lol

49 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

I understand this fully. And with the notice that it was my complaint (a couple of pages back) that Crime of The Century has a too high DR, I could tell Chris @The Computer Audiophile that it is exactly that one where drums (kick drum ahead) sound like paper. Odd eh ...

 

But @Brian Lucey, the sort of mistake you may make here (it would be a thinking mistake) is that where higher dynamics will overdrive the (bass) driver and only imply distortion instead of pushed air, this is a fault in the loudspeaker of concern; It is not fast enough.

Now of course you could try to tell us that 99% of even audiophiles don't use fast enough drivers, but that would be a bit of BS IMHO because with a solution like yours we don't even have the opportunity to fix it.

Your solution implies woolly bass, if that would be an English term for the opposite of taut.

 

I'd agree that for many a "slow down" solution could work out for the better, but once you start referring to the smash board top 100 ...

No. And never.

 

Peter

 

 

 I'm not making a thinking mistake.  I master for all playback, some great, most bad.  No "wolly bass"   Fail.

[PeterSt]

32 minutes ago, synn said:

36 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

And on Tidal in MQA (24/48).

 

Hey, was I on topic there or what.

 Nice.

 

Not sure what the latest promo material for MQA says, but will it magically make up for the dynamic compression implemented at the mastering stage?

 

Not in this case. The normal Redbook on Tidal already is so-so (3dB better than what I regard average) and the MQA compresses 3dB more (so right on the average). 

[PeterSt]

On 7-11-2017 at 3:25 AM, Em2016 said:

Shania Twain - Now

Liam Gallagher - As You Were

 

The Twain compresses to my (own set) avarage. So not super bad really (in my view of course).

The Gallagher is 1.5dB worse. Should still be acceptable.

 

No difference between the Redbook and MQA here.

 

@Brian Lucey, don't you do - or deliver higher than 48 ? Looks like a strange question, but the MQA versions seem to tell me that.

Thanks.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

I understand this fully. And with the notice that it was my complaint (a couple of pages back) that Crime of The Century has a too high DR, I could tell Chris @The Computer Audiophile that it is exactly that one where drums (kick drum ahead) sound like paper. Odd eh ...

 

But @Brian Lucey, the sort of mistake you may make here (it would be a thinking mistake) is that where higher dynamics will overdrive the (bass) driver and only imply distortion instead of pushed air, this is a fault in the loudspeaker of concern; It is not fast enough.

Now of course you could try to tell us that 99% of even audiophiles don't use fast enough drivers, but that would be a bit of BS IMHO because with a solution like yours we don't even have the opportunity to fix it.

Your solution implies woolly bass, if that would be an English term for the opposite of taut.

 

I'd agree that for many a "slow down" solution could work out for the better, but once you start referring to the smash board top 100 ...

No. And never.

 

Peter

 

 

Wider DR isn’t responsible for bad sounding drums. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Stop it already. This bickering is distracting from the real conversation. Brian delivers what his clients desire, as should any professional. If you happen to not share those tastes, then don't listen to that music. Now get back to exterminating MQA.

Thanks. Back on topic. 

[PeterSt]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Wider DR isn’t responsible for bad sounding drums. 

 

So what is ?

[Shadders]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

I'm sure it is economics. Cut costs where ever possible.

It is an even more glaring issue when we get an "audiophile" hi-res release that has the same DR as the mp3. In other words, the hi-res master was already volume compressed, and the Redbook and mp3 were just downsampled.

Why not leave the hi-res without all the volume compression, and volume compress the lesser formats if we think the marketplace demands it?

Of course, according to Brian, the VC is often done in the mix, so that means the hi-res master is already Volume compressed at the mix, and the dynamics are gone forever. 

Hi,

I was going to suggest that the spare space on a CD be used for higher dynamic range content - repeat of some of the better tracks. But it seems that the masters have been ruined already.

Regards,

Shadders.

[Abtr]

40 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

...

So what is ?

 

Narrower DR? And the drums on the DR16 MFSL release of Crime Of The Century may sound too thin because the relative volume is too low. Overall DR compression could fix that.

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, Abtr said:

 

Narrower DR? And the drums on the DR16 MFSL release of Crime Of The Century may sound too thin because the relative volume is too low. Overall DR compression could fix that.

Turn up the volume. 

[PeterSt]

22 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Narrower DR? And the drums on the DR16 MFSL release of Crime Of The Century may sound too thin because the relative volume is too low.

 

This is completely correct and has always been my idea about it. But hard to prove. So I thought to grab Mr Lucey's (implied) idea about it because it makes sense.

Now I an going to listen to those albums of him. See if it still makes sense. 

[Abtr]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Turn up the volume. 

Yes, that would ultimately have the same effect as DR compression, but it might in this case damage your hearing.

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

Now I an going to listen to those albums of him. See if it still makes sense. 

 

It does not. Nowhere.

[Abtr]

As @Brian Lucey suggested, extreme DR compression may be the result of fear. Possibly the fear of the artist to be ignored, but more likely the fear of the production team to be exposed as incompetent. Extreme DR compression effectively masks most mixing/mastering errors..

[Brian Lucey]

2 hours ago, Abtr said:

Yes, that would ultimately have the same effect as DR compression, but it might in this case damage your hearing.

 

It's not the same effect.   Turning up a dynamic record is never the same as a more limited or compressed record.

 

The sound of density is modern by definition, and that can't be had with Aja on Stun.

 

No. no. never.

31 minutes ago, Abtr said:

As @Brian Lucey suggested, extreme DR compression may be the result of fear. Possibly the fear of the artist to be ignored, but more likely the fear of the production team to be exposed as incompetent. Extreme DR compression effectively masks most mixing/mastering errors..

 

This is the most arrogant, ignorant and ridiculous thing you have said so far.

 

Please post any commercial release, or home made release, and point out even one "mixing error" ... as far as the "mastering errors" as I have said the mastering is always approved by the team.

 

I don't care for a lot of people's work, as would be expected, but that is taste, not "errors".  Feel free to post even one example of a mastering error.

 

Your taste is you, you are not the King. 

 

 

[Abtr]

10 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

...

Feel free to post even one example of a mastering error.

 

The drums on the (DR16) MFSL release of Crime Of The Century (Supertramp) sound too thin. They sound fine in the 'normal' (DR13) releases.. 

[synn]

My personal experience is that turning up a dynamic record will blast the highs through the roof when things reach a crescendo (e.g. Parsifal conducted by Solti). The magic of such records, when played through capable equipment is to hear the loud parts at tolerable volumes  and appreciate the subtlety of the quieter parts, while being amazed at the clarity on both ends.

 

a compressed record is loud all around, turning up the dynamic record to volume match the loudest parts does not sound the same to me at all.

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

This is the most arrogant, ignorant and ridiculous thing you have said so far.

People are posting comments from a good place and a place of curiosity and their limited knowledge. Often we learn about other industries from what we can read online. 

 

You have a golden opportunity to shed light on your industry with people who actually care about what you do and will support you. Please consider giving people the benefit of the doubt by not calling them arrogant, ignorant, and ridiculous. They honestly are posting from a good place. 

 

Letting people know how it really works, or the real story could be incredibly valuable for everyone. 

[kumakuma]

21 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

Please post any commercial release, or home made release, and point out even one "mixing error" ... as far as the "mastering errors" as I have said the mastering is always approved by the team.

 

I don't care for a lot of people's work, as would be expected, but that is taste, not "errors".  Feel free to post even one example of a mastering error.

 

Wouldn't clipping in the final release be considered an error?

[Brian Lucey]

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

 

The drums on the (DR16) MFSL release of Crime Of The Century (Supertramp) sound too thin. They sound fine in the 'normal' (DR13) releases.. 

 

Sounds too thin TO YOU.   Not an error,  just your taste.

1 hour ago, kumakuma said:

 

Wouldn't clipping in the final release be considered an error?

In the 80s clipping was an error.  And the straight transfers form tape sound bad as a result.

 

Clipping as a form of limiting, has been done on purpose for decades.  I do it daily.   Not an error.

 

The concept of "error" implies a rule or standards and this is art.   There are no standards and no rules.

 

Sorry if that's too much chaos for you but the music you love is made by artists so ... there is value in stretching your worldview if you are attracted to their work.  From Mozart, to Hendrix to clipping, it's all about playing with the rules.

 

There are no errors in a release if you don't like the music or production.  The notion is absurd.

 

An error is only something like a bad edit, or an audible pop that was missed, or a sound that some call offensive that was NOT chosen for the artistic effect.   

 

Would you like to tune all the vocals to eliminate the errors?  Perfection has NO place in music production.   None.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

Would you like to tune all the vocals to eliminate the errors?  Perfection has NO place in music production.   None.

I agree about perfection. I don’t like it. However, I wish auto tune as a way to “perfect” vocals was used less. It’s a cool effect when used like T-Pain. 

[Abtr]

22 minutes ago, Brian Lucey said:

...

Sounds too thin TO YOU.   Not an error,  just your taste.

 

If the DR16 (MFSL) Crime Of The Century release is correct, then why have *all* other releases DR13 or even DR9?  

[Brian Lucey]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

People are posting comments from a good place and a place of curiosity and their limited knowledge. Often we learn about other industries from what we can read online. 

 

You have a golden opportunity to shed light on your industry with people who actually care about what you do and will support you. Please consider giving people the benefit of the doubt by not calling them arrogant, ignorant, and ridiculous. They honestly are posting from a good place. 

 

Letting people know how it really works, or the real story could be incredibly valuable for everyone. 

 

Trying to avoid you yet as this is your sandbox here are my personal forum rules:

 

1. When someone posts with respect or curiosity, they get respect and kindness plus information.

2. When someone posts with insults, lack of respect, stupidity, hubris, or judgment about music being fucked simply because it has not their taste in DR ... or when they have NO IDEA into the process and start to pontificate like they are anything more than an expensive stereo buyer ... they get a reply in kind.

 

Please don't blame the messenger if your board has some people with more ego than information and more attitude than tact.

 

 

I like audiophiles, you care, you listen ... yet you all create only with the playback.  You have no expertise in the production side.  Leave the rest to us and ask politely to get a polite reply.