genigo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I am an owner of a custom built music server with the following characteristics: Hardware USB (Sound) Card : SOtM USB Card tX-USBexp + clock SOtm sCLK 48.0 PC Case : HDPLEX H5 ATX DC Power Supply : HDPLEX HiFi 250W DC-ATX External Power Supply : HDPLEX 100W Linear PSU Motherboard : ASUS Z170M-Plus (Intel Z170 Chipset) CPU : Intel Core i5-6400 RAM : Corsair Vengeance 16GB 2400MHz DDR4 HDD (OS): Samsung SSD 850 EVO 120 GB HDD (Music Files): Western Digital RED 3TB SDD SATA Data Cable: PACHANKO Red Mk2 Software Operating System: Windows Server 2012 R2 Library Management: JRiver Media Center 23 Audio Player: JPLAY v6.2 Audio System Amplifier : PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP Speakers: Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand SE DAC: Aqua La Voce S2 MKII USB Cable : VOVOX vocalis IC Interconnects: Nordost When I boot the music server I get annoying PC noise (boot beeps, HDD movements, etc) coming out from the speakers (mainly the tweeter). The problem exists even if the DAC is powered off or the DAC input is not selected at the amplifier. When I disconnect the interconnects or the USB cable the noise cease to exist. Any ideas or help is welcome Thanks in advance Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 others are more knowledgable, but i think an ifi igalvanic3 will resolve this, but i am sure there are cheaper ways and doesn't really help in isolating what your problem is.. also curious if you have tried to just use the standard usb port instead of the usb on your card. another thing to try, where i have seen "bleed-through" (or whatever it is called) ...try using one of those 3 prong to 2 prong power adapters (eliminating the ground) just for a test. (i later found that was an issue with wiring in a room addition, but that is the only time i have seen something similar to what you have described). It took me to figure out why i would get usb noise in one room with a desktop, but not with a notebook....the notebook had only 2 prongs on the power supply. I know this is a far fetch and probably not related, but something you can easily try. ....i will be watching this thread with curiosity, so keep us advised. Link to comment
genigo Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 The problem is the same in all usb ports... Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Just now, genigo said: The problem is the same in all usb ports... try the adapter or a notebook with same d->a chain. Link to comment
LTG2010 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Sound like the usb cable is causing a ground loop. Isolation transformers etc help. Test by plugging everything via same ac socket. Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Sounds like a ground loop? Can you disable the 5V Vbus to the DAC from the SOtM card? If you DAC can operate without it, I would recommend doing that. It's a red switch on the USB card. If not, try it after boot up after JRiver sees the DAC. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 ^^^^ when i had my issue, i think that's what others suggested as a "ground loop", and the adapter i spoke of worked (just as bandaid until issue resolved). It was only in one room...if i took the same setup to my main listening room hooked up to my power center, the problem went away. Link to comment
genigo Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 My DAC cannot operate without the 5V Vbus. However I have already tested the card withe the red switch off and the problem remains. Link to comment
genigo Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 All devices are plugged to the Torus except the router which is plugged to a separate socket. Music Server is connected to the Netgear router via a cat.6 ethernet cable. Link to comment
LTG2010 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Also you can test with some cheap USB, interconnect, ethernet cables by cutting through the shielding. Link to comment
genigo Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 Sorry, in my first post I didn't mention that all devices are plugged to a Torus Power Tot MAX isolator. Nevertheless I have also tried without Torus (everything plugged to a Supra power distribution). Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, genigo said: Sorry, in my first post I didn't mention that all devices are plugged to a Torus Power Tot MAX isolator. Nevertheless I have also tried without Torus (everything plugged to a Supra power distribution). try the adapter...it will remove the ground and i "believe" (may be wrong), any possibility that it is a "ground loop" problem? I believe It was the only thing that worked for me.....if that doesn't work swap one thing out at a time...last resort take your setup to your neighbors (grin)...i am sure you will find it with perseverance. Link to comment
genigo Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 I tried to connect the DAC with my laptop and seems that the problem dissapears ! No hum, no noise just a quiet USB link Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, genigo said: I tried to connect the DAC with my laptop and seems that the problem dissapears ! No hum, no noise just a quiet USB link This is valuable information. This means from the DAC onward, there's no noise, good. The problem lies in the music server. Noise coupled from the PC' internals is being picked up by the USB cable as conducted noise, which you hear. If you have an AM Radio, set it close to the PC, tune it off station at the high end of the band and listen. After each check the noise may increase/decrease, the radio will pick it up. Several checks to do: - Ensure the case and the motherboard are bonded, even add straps between each panel. - Ground the 0V rail from the PC's power supply, use a braid if you can. - Ensure the PC is fitted with an EMC filter and ground this device - Tighten all case screws Forget the cheater plug. The Torus is OK, it can stay in place. There is a standard 3 pin connector on the PC? AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, genigo said: I tried to connect the DAC with my laptop and seems that the problem dissapears ! No hum, no noise just a quiet USB link I know i thought it was my desktop in my situation, but it wasn't. You can try taking your whole setup to your neighbors if you already tried the obvious of swapping cables, etc... Does your laptop power cord have 2 prongs or 3? if 2, try the adapter to your desktop. Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 I see the problem already. HDPLEX subscribe to the floating input view and no earths anywhere. Check out the EMC filter connector at the bottom of the picture on the case webpage. Where's the earth? AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
beerandmusic Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, One and a half said: I see the problem already. HDPLEX subscribe to the floating input view and no earths anywhere. Check out the EMC filter connector at the bottom of the picture on the case webpage. Where's the earth? so can he modify the cable to correct the problem? Or should just get different ps Link to comment
genigo Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 A Clarification: Music Server is powered by a HDplex 100W external linear power supply (19V rail for the 250W DC-ATX internal power supply , 5V rail for the SSD and 9V rail for Sotm USB Card). The 250W DC-ATX powers motherboard, CPU and the 3TB WD HDD Both 100W external linear power supply and the 250W DC-ATX are shown below : Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Thanks @genigo for the information. The noise generation comes from the HDPlex gear and a solution needs to come from them. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
ismewor Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 So are you the only one has issue? i don't believe so. Does hdplex have solution? Digital: Dac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,CAS: SOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Totally obvious: Ground loop between the USB card and the rest of the computer due to the separate PSU rails and the way you are powering them. Other possibility lies with your Prima Luna integrated amp. Do you have any other source (RCA cables) besides your DAC connected to your amp? If so, what is it and what is connected to that? There must be a path back to your computer somewhere. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
One and a half Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Superdad said: Other possibility lies with your Prima Luna integrated amp. Do you have any other source (RCA cables) besides your DAC connected to your amp? If so, what is it and what is connected to that? There must be a path back to your computer somewhere. The OP advised that substituting the HDPLEX PC with a laptop, the noise disappeared. If the laptop had two or three prongs on the power supply, wouldn't matter, there's sufficient strength in the noise from the HDPLEX to be treated as signal and amplified. AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to comment
genigo Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 Besides the Music Server there is also a Musical Fidelity A5 CD connected to Prima Luna with a pair of Kimber Kable RCA cables. @Superdad, Any advise regarding the ground loop problem ? Link to comment
genigo Posted November 11, 2017 Author Share Posted November 11, 2017 Problem solved by replacing the HDplex Linear PSU with a DELL laptop SMPS. With the HDPlex LPSU present the problem persisted even when I used only the 19V rail for power the PC (initially I removed the SSD and USB Card rails). Any ideas for replacing the SMPS with a decent combination of ATX power supply and an external Line PSU ? The tot max power consumption of the Server is 160W. Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 2 hours ago, genigo said: Problem solved by replacing the HDplex Linear PSU with a DELL laptop SMPS. With the HDPlex LPSU present the problem persisted even when I used only the 19V rail for power the PC (initially I removed the SSD and USB Card rails). Any ideas for replacing the SMPS with a decent combination of ATX power supply and an external Line PSU ? The tot max power consumption of the Server is 160W. I suspect it was the 250W DC-ATX board. I would get ahold of Larry and have it exchanged. Would be nice to also confirm the 19V rail is correct, if you have a volt meter around. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
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