Jump to content
IGNORED

Sonore ultraDigital v2.0


Recommended Posts

On 12/15/2017 at 9:34 AM, tapatrick said:

Hi

@R1200CL curious how you got on with your testing?...

 

On 12/16/2017 at 9:17 PM, nbpf said:

Did you manage to do some more testing? If so, what are the outcomes? Best, nbpf

 

Hi guys

 

What happen was that my SSD in my SonicTransporter i5 died, and my Qnap backup system didn't work very well  either. We only got very short time to compare.

I should mention that thanks to great support from SMG, I managed last week to fix the SonicTransporter. (New M2.SSD). Qnap needed new memory modules as well. Done yesterday.

 

So the test was a disaster O.o


Well not totally. My friend agree almost 100 % with me that there is hardly no difference in swapping between a modified SU-1 and ultraDigital and also using a MicroRendu 1.3 vs a UltraRendu. You have to work (listen) hard to hear a difference between a ultradigital with a MicroRendo1.3 vs a modified SU-1 and a UltraRendu !

 

That's just how good this ultraDigital is. :D

 

My friend has borrowed  the ultraDigital in his setup. (We have same DAC's) With an LPS-1. I don't think he will return it.

So my suggestion is that if anyone need and SQ upgrade, them prioritize the ultraDigital over a MicroRendu 1,3 to 1,4 upgrade.

(That is if you need a USB/SPDIF converter of cause).

 

Of cause if you only purchase a ultraRendu or do a MicroRendu 1.4 upgrade, you will get a very good SQ lift as well. I personally is not that convinced how much a 1.4 upgrade vs a ultraRendu really does. The 1.4 upgrade is the real magic :D But that's another story.

 

What we do know is that using the correct regulates and clocks do matter. And a wrong cable can do damage. It could even be another cable radiating to your correct and expensive cable. Reading about JSSG (John Swenson's Shielding Guidelines) as well as JSGT (John Swenson's Ground Tweak) could help you a lot. His very latest findings is very interesting. Not to mention relative cheap to implement, even if you purchase special ordered cables from Ghent. 

 

Working on your USB/SPDIF converter is the priority you should look at. My modified SU-1 is of cause very good, but you save $200 by purchasing the ultraDigital.

If you can, spend the $35 on a USPCB, and use starquad DC cables.

If you have an UltraRendu as I have now, you should probably go for the 90 degree USPCB, as well as a 90 degree Oyaide plug for the power.

 

I have not tested the Eitr yet. But seeing you @nbpf doing test against an hiFace EVO (which I also have and haven't used for a long time ), I do think the ultraDigital is just in another league.

Of cause power supply is important. As well as a good BNC cable that the ultraDigital uses.

 

I have not used i2s at all, in case anyone is wondering.

 

I hope more people will tell about their listening experience with the ultraDigital. But then again, as we know it's a condensed SU-1 (a even better version?), and as so many has written about how good the SU-1 is if not the best, then again, the ultraDigital should be on your top priority list of a new USB/SPDIF converter.

 

Actually I think some DAC's USB implementation is so bad, that you probably should try the ultraDigital in any case before anything else.

 

 

Link to comment
41 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

That's just how good this ultraDigital is. :D

the ultraDigital should be on your top priority list of a new USB/SPDIF converter.

Thanks @R1200CL... sorry to hear about the hard drive.. been there - its drag. Thanks for the great review

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

You have to work (listen) hard to hear a difference between a ultradigital with a MicroRendo1.3 vs a modified SU-1 and a UltraRendu !

So is your conclusion that if you use an ultraDigital there is little difference between a microRendu 1.3 and an ultraRendu?

 

This may make sense because the ultraDigital is converting USB to SPDIF, so the clock in the ultraDigital (and the power supply used with it) becomes the primary factor in the chain influencing sound quality.

 

We still don't really understand how chaining clocks with different phase noise interact to influence the SQ end result.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

 

Hi guys

 

What happen was that my SSD in my SonicTransporter i5 died, and my Qnap backup system didn't work very well  either. We only got very short time to compare.

I should mention that thanks to great support from SMG, I managed last week to fix the SonicTransporter. (New M2.SSD). Qnap needed new memory modules as well. Done yesterday.

 

So the test was a disaster O.o


Well not totally. My friend agree almost 100 % with me that there is hardly no difference in swapping between a modified SU-1 and ultraDigital and also using a MicroRendu 1.3 vs a UltraRendu. You have to work (listen) hard to hear a difference between a ultradigital with a MicroRendo1.3 vs a modified SU-1 and a UltraRendu !

 

That's just how good this ultraDigital is. :D

 

My friend has borrowed  the ultraDigital in his setup. (We have same DAC's) With an LPS-1. I don't think he will return it.

So my suggestion is that if anyone need and SQ upgrade, them prioritize the ultraDigital over a MicroRendu 1,3 to 1,4 upgrade.

(That is if you need a USB/SPDIF converter of cause).

 

Of cause if you only purchase a ultraRendu or do a MicroRendu 1.4 upgrade, you will get a very good SQ lift as well. I personally is not that convinced how much a 1.4 upgrade vs a ultraRendu really does. The 1.4 upgrade is the real magic :D But that's another story.

 

What we do know is that using the correct regulates and clocks do matter. And a wrong cable can do damage. It could even be another cable radiating to your correct and expensive cable. Reading about JSSG (John Swenson's Shielding Guidelines) as well as JSGT (John Swenson's Ground Tweak) could help you a lot. His very latest findings is very interesting. Not to mention relative cheap to implement, even if you purchase special ordered cables from Ghent. 

 

Working on your USB/SPDIF converter is the priority you should look at. My modified SU-1 is of cause very good, but you save $200 by purchasing the ultraDigital.

If you can, spend the $35 on a USPCB, and use starquad DC cables.

If you have an UltraRendu as I have now, you should probably go for the 90 degree USPCB, as well as a 90 degree Oyaide plug for the power.

 

I have not tested the Eitr yet. But seeing you @nbpf doing test against an hiFace EVO (which I also have and haven't used for a long time ), I do think the ultraDigital is just in another league.

Of cause power supply is important. As well as a good BNC cable that the ultraDigital uses.

 

I have not used i2s at all, in case anyone is wondering.

 

I hope more people will tell about their listening experience with the ultraDigital. But then again, as we know it's a condensed SU-1 (a even better version?), and as so many has written about how good the SU-1 is if not the best, then again, the ultraDigital should be on your top priority list of a new USB/SPDIF converter.

 

Actually I think some DAC's USB implementation is so bad, that you probably should try the ultraDigital in any case before anything else.

 

 

Thanks for the report and for the valuable suggestions! Best, nbpf

Link to comment
3 hours ago, rickca said:

This may make sense because the ultraDigital is converting USB to SPDIF, so the clock in the ultraDigital (and the power supply used with it) becomes the primary factor in the chain influencing sound quality.

 

Exactly my point. Thanks. ?

 

3 hours ago, rickca said:

We still don't really understand how chaining clocks with different phase noise interact to influence the SQ end result.

 

I think @JohnSwenson is getting there. Or actually has got it. 

 

Hopefully @Superdad will make some digital products soon later this year. I have a switch in mind, but other ‘’low cost’’ options could maybe be on the roadmap.

 

I must admitt it’s not easy to suggest what we need as next to improve SQ. 

 

Of cause you can can never get enough good and clean power, and getting rid of several SMPS is probably my personal next step.

Link to comment
8 hours ago, rickca said:

So is your conclusion that if you use an ultraDigital there is little difference between a microRendu 1.3 and an ultraRendu?

 

This may make sense because the ultraDigital is converting USB to SPDIF, so the clock in the ultraDigital (and the power supply used with it) becomes the primary factor in the chain influencing sound quality.

 

We still don't really understand how chaining clocks with different phase noise interact to influence the SQ end result.

I think you are talking about the clocks in network devices. The two main clocks in the ultraDigtial are actually used for audio.  

Link to comment
On 2018-01-04 at 5:22 PM, rickca said:

So is your conclusion that if you use an ultraDigital there is little difference between a microRendu 1.3 and an ultraRendu?

 

This may make sense because the ultraDigital is converting USB to SPDIF, so the clock in the ultraDigital (and the power supply used with it) becomes the primary factor in the chain influencing sound quality.

 

We still don't really understand how chaining clocks with different phase noise interact to influence the SQ end result.

 

I don’t own the ultraDigtial, but with the Offramp 5 (DDC) the difference between the uR and mR was easy to hear and well worth the commission.

Link to comment
On 12/26/2017 at 2:10 PM, birdland45 said:

Hi Bob:

 

I too purchased the ultraRendu AND ultraDigital because I wanted native DSD256 support with the W4S DAC-2v2SE.  I purchased both ultras because I thought that since they are made by the same company, they would be compatible with each other.  They work great together and I have purchased a diskless sonicTransporter i5 yesterday before the holiday specials ended.  I just have to figure out how to control playback using an iPhone or similar after I receive the sonicTransporter.  I tried iPeng with JRiver MC using the latter as a media server but iPeng could not find JRiver.  I hope I didn't spend $10 for nothing.  MonkeyMote couldn't find it either.  Hopefully, I jut don't know what I'm doing.

 

The new Panel from JRiver works with JRiver MC as it should.  As I stated in my original post, I've been able to send content to the ultraRendu at all resolutions including DSD256 natively.  This is with Panel running on the same computer as JRiver MC and Panel on my iPhone.  However, Panel is extremely painful to use because as far as I can tell, it doesn't support playlists, etc.

 

The channel reversal issue was a big disappointment.  I also thought that since the ultraDigital had specific switch settings for W4S DACs, it would not have any issues.

 

I have verified that the channel swap occurs with both PCM and DSD content.  Unfortunately, since I have a bad cold and feel like my head is going to explode, I really cannot determine if DSD has the out of phase issue that the Singxer had.  If you or anyone else have an easy way to determine this, please let me know.  I know from reading other posts that it is not easy to detect an out of phase problem.

 

I used TASCAM Hi-Res Editor to convert a 16/44.1kHz WAV file to DSD64 and the channels were definitely reversed.  I was listening via headphones so I could not determine if there was a phase problem with DSD or both DSD and PCM.  I will try to listen again later today or tomorrow via speakers especially since I have the same file in both formats.

 

I haven't received an answer from Andrew Gillis of Small Greeen Computer or Jesus of Sonore.  However, I wasn't really expecting anything since it is the holidays.

I believe the Nordost System Set Up CD has test tracks specifically to detect phase problems, individually by channel, as well as a lot of other useful test and set up tracks.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

Link to comment
37 minutes ago, barrows said:

I believe the Nordost System Set Up CD has test tracks specifically to detect phase problems, individually by channel, as well as a lot of other useful test and set up tracks.

 

All good.  Please see later posts where with the help of Jesus of Sonore, we figured out the correct switch settings.  I used the Stereophile Test CD channel test track and the phasing test track.  I forgot I had it. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
On 12/26/2017 at 5:25 PM, rickca said:

Does this mean the ultraDigital is a modded SU-1 made by Singxer for Sonore?  What other tweaks have been implemented?

@vortecjr could you please answer my question?

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/12/2017 at 2:24 PM, R1200CL said:

 

Well, my record is powering 4 devices with one LPS-1 ?

 

If I tell you that Jesus is wrong, will you believe me ? 

 

 

Hi,

So no problems powering the ultraRendu and the Sonore ultraDigital with the Ghent JSSG DC Y splitter cable?

I have an F-1 now with the ultraRendu and LPS-1. Sounds awesome, - but I am wondering if the ultra-Digital will take it up another notch.

Thanks, and sorry if you're already answered this same question...

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Albrecht said:

Hi,

So no problems powering the ultraRendu and the Sonore ultraDigital with the Ghent JSSG DC Y splitter cable?

I have an F-1 now with the ultraRendu and LPS-1. Sounds awesome, - but I am wondering if the ultra-Digital will take it up another notch.

Thanks, and sorry if you're already answered this same question...

 

Well, I’m attempted to say, no doubt ?

 

Tough you may need another LPS-1 to achieve the ultimate SQ. 

(Or the LPS-1.2, but you will just waste money on that upgrade. LPS-1 will suit you).

Link to comment
10 hours ago, Albrecht said:

Thanks, and sorry if you're already answered this same question...

 

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

(Or the LPS-1.2, but you will just waste money on that upgrade. LPS-1 will suit you).

 

I may be a bit wrong in my last statment ......

 

 

Link to comment
22 hours ago, Albrecht said:

Hi,

So no problems powering the ultraRendu and the Sonore ultraDigital with the Ghent JSSG DC Y splitter cable?

I have an F-1 now with the ultraRendu and LPS-1. Sounds awesome, - but I am wondering if the ultra-Digital will take it up another notch.

Thanks, and sorry if you're already answered this same question...

If you do this you defeat the isolation inherent in the ultraDigital...

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

Link to comment
2 hours ago, barrows said:

If you do this you defeat the isolation inherent in the ultraDigital...

 

Hi barrows. I've seen this a couple times and I'm a little slow in understanding how the isolation is defeated when you share a single LPS-1 and use a Y-splitter.

 

What exactly gets compromised and how? Are you able to explain (simply, if possible).

 

The SPDIF input is (transformer?) isolated. So how does sharing power with the ultraRendu defeat this SPDIF isolation?

 

The power is still coming from the LPS-1, so is still 'off the grid' no?

 

The only thing I can see is any internal noise of the ultraRendu may be 'shared' via the power to the ultraDigital (and vice versa) but noise is still regulated in both ultraRendu and ultraDigital and still 'off the grid' for both?

 

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Hi barrows. I've seen this a couple times and I'm a little slow in understanding how the isolation is defeated when you share a single LPS-1 and use a Y-splitter.

 

Are you able to explain. Appreciated

Simple: in order to be isolated, two products (or even two internal circuits, such as inside a DAC) require separate power supplies. The ultraDigital isolates its SPDIF/I2S outputs from the USB receiver and the USB source.  But, by powering both the ultraRendu (the USB source) and the ultraDigital by the same power supply, you are defeating the isolation, as the power supply connects the SPDIF/I2S output and the ultraRendu together.  You will achieve the isolation, which is a desirable feature of the ultraDigital, only by powering it from a dedicated power supply.

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/25/2018 at 6:27 PM, barrows said:

Simple: in order to be isolated, two products (or even two internal circuits, such as inside a DAC) require separate power supplies. The ultraDigital isolates its SPDIF/I2S outputs from the USB receiver and the USB source.  But, by powering both the ultraRendu (the USB source) and the ultraDigital by the same power supply, you are defeating the isolation, as the power supply connects the SPDIF/I2S output and the ultraRendu together.  You will achieve the isolation, which is a desirable feature of the ultraDigital, only by powering it from a dedicated power supply.

So will the ultraDigital isolate the S/PDIF output from any noise in the original network/USB derived data signal?

Main System: [Synology DS216, Rpi-4b LMS (pCP)], Holo Audio Red, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments

Living Room: Sonore ultraRendu, Ayre QB-9DSD, Simaudio MOON 340iX, B&W 802 Diamond

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, Axiom05 said:

So will the ultraDigital isolate the S/PDIF output from any noise in the original network/USB derived data signal?

No isolation is ever perfect.  So the word "any" is the problem here.  There is complete galvanic isolation between the USB input/receiver and the SPDIF and I2S outputs.  In theory, this should provide complete isolation from noise incoming not he USB input and from the noise of the USB processing chip.  In the real world, there is likely going to be a little bit of capacitive coupling across the isolation, so some noise probably gets through.  

Even though many who produce DACs with isolated USB inputs claim they are immune to USB noise, users have found that reducing the noise of the USB source still improves sonic performance, so no isolation is "perfect".  Still, it is better to have the isolation as it greatly reduce the noise getting to the output.

One of the reasons some find the SPDIF input on some DACs sounds better than the USB input is because of two things: one, their USB input may not be isolated, and two, their USB source may be noisy: by using the ultraDigital and SPDIF with a DAC like this it can be possible to get better sound than by USB.  But it all depends not he DAC (and the noise of the USB source, sources like the Rendu series are designed to have as little noise on the USB output as possible).

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
On 25/11/2017 at 2:14 PM, JohnSwenson said:

Not necessarily, I2S is one directional, the clock is part of the bus, ultimately this is the wrong way to be doing it, you want the clock in the DAC and everything else syncing to it, not the other way around.

 

So while I2S doesn't have some of the ills of some other interfaces, it adds different problems, so any particular implementation is trade offs between these. Thus there can be no generic "this one is better than that one". As with many other things, it depends on implementation.

 

John S.

Very interesting listening comparison we ran the other day.

 

Older Signature Rendu into Holo Audio Spring dac via hdmi i2s with regular switch across to ultraRendu (powered by lps-1 + lpsu) into same Holo dac & audio gear via Curious usb short cable.

 

The first setup was clearly superior.

Despite the identical audio gear, we knew we were comparing the mix of different rendus + signal connections.

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...