Build a SOA Immersive Audio System for Less Than $10K

[witchdoctor]

31 minutes ago, witchdoctor said:

The Yammie 5100 pre/pro review:

 

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-cx-a5100-surround-processor-review

 

The HS8 review, don't wall mount them though:

http://avproductreviews.com/yamaha-hs8-studio-monitor-review

 

The HS5 review. These are perfectly biamped with for the transducers by the engineer at $176 a piece. Note that they have trim controls in the back so you can dial them in when wall mounted:

 

http://www.recordingexpert.net/yamaha-powered-hs5-studio-monitor-review/

 

 

 

[christopher3393]

54 minutes ago, witchdoctor said:

The Yammie 5100 pre/pro review:

 

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-cx-a5100-surround-processor-review

 

The HS8 review, don't wall mount them though:

http://avproductreviews.com/yamaha-hs8-studio-monitor-review

 

The HS5 review. These are perfectly biamped with for the transducers by the engineer at $176 a piece:

 

http://www.recordingexpert.net/yamaha-powered-hs5-studio-monitor-review/

 

 

 

 Do you have any past or present affiliation with Yamaha?

[Mordikai]

1 hour ago, witchdoctor said:

The Yammie 5100 pre/pro review:

 

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/yamaha-aventage-cx-a5100-surround-processor-review

 

 

Looks like the Yamaha doesn't do the Aura3D?

[witchdoctor]

4 minutes ago, Mordikai said:

Looks like the Yamaha doesn't do the Aura3D?

No and IMO Auro 3D is the best for music using the auromatic upmixer. But I'll bet it matches those speakers great

[witchdoctor]

25 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 

 Do you have any past or present affiliation with Yamaha?

No affiliations period. I am only a witchdoctor

[Mordikai]

35 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 

 Do you have any past or present affiliation with Yamaha?

Man, the people are around here are awfully perinoid of industry shills. 

[christopher3393]

39 minutes ago, Mordikai said:

Man, the people are around here are awfully perinoid of industry shills. 

 

He worked for Yamaha for a number of years.

[Mordikai]

2 hours ago, christopher3393 said:

 

He worked for Yamaha for a number of years.

He has not promoted their stuff here excessively as far as I can tell. He started off recommending the KH120's which are Neumann and a Marantz receiver. How do you know who he is? Who is he/she/they? I know he's a bit of a broken record and the third person witchdoctor thing is ridiculous, but he seems pretty unsophisticated for an industry shill. No offense witchdoctor.

[witchdoctor]

13 minutes ago, Mordikai said:

He has not promoted their stuff here excessively as far as I can tell. He started off recommending the KH120's which are Neumann and a Marantz receiver. How do you know who he is? Who is he/she/they? I know he's a bit of a broken record and the third person witchdoctor thing is ridiculous, but he seems pretty unsophisticated for an industry shill. No offense witchdoctor.

all good

[christopher3393]

15 minutes ago, Mordikai said:

He has not promoted their stuff here excessively as far as I can tell

 

Yes, you are right. And I understand you're surprise and concern. it was easy to figure out who he is from his posting and his promotion of immersive sound. He has also identified his ethnicity elsewhere on this forum. If I am wrong, I'll accept whatever consequences follow.  I think witchdoctor may have much to offer. But the way he has chosen to do it is, imo, misguided. I've made plenty of mistakes here myself. So we'll just see how this shakes out. Sorry for the confusion and unpleasantness.

[witchdoctor]

3 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 

Yes, you are right. And I understand you're surprise and concern. it was easy to figure out who he is from his posting and his promotion of immersive sound. He has also identified his ethnicity elsewhere on this forum. If I am wrong, I'll accept whatever consequences follow.  I think witchdoctor may have much to offer. But the way he has chosen to do it is, imo, misguided. I've made plenty of mistakes here myself. So we'll just see how this shakes out. Sorry for the confusion and unpleasantness.

For the witchdoctor resume please use the link:

 

http://tinyurl.com/cha7klx

[Mordikai]

7 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 

Yes, you are right. And I understand you're surprise and concern. it was easy to figure out who he is from his posting and his promotion of immersive sound. he has also identified his ethnicity elsewhere on this forum. If I am wrong, I'll accept whatever consequences follow.  I think witchdoctor may have much to offer. But the way he has chosen to do it is, imo, misguided. I've made plenty of mistakes here myself. So we'll just see how this shakes out. Sorry for the confusion and unpleasantness.

I'm ok, and you sound like you've got a good attitude. I'm in this hobby for fun, but I don't mind a little drama and intrigue. I like witchdoctors enthusiasm but he is pretty repetive and trollish also. Again, no offense witchdoctor.

[witchdoctor]

If you are going with stands for your height speakers take a look at these:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Costzon-Speaker-Stands-Monitor-Support/dp/B01MZ01DLP/ref=sr_1_13?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1508726004&sr=1-13&keywords=speaker+stands

 

[Mordikai]

3 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

If you are going with stands for your height speakers take a look at these:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Costzon-Speaker-Stands-Monitor-Support/dp/B01MZ01DLP/ref=sr_1_13?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1508726004&sr=1-13&keywords=speaker+stands

 

wow, cheap!

[Yucca06]

If you want immersive audio, you don’t need more than 2 speakers at all (and I had a quad system before...)

 

... but only a BACCH system, or a convolution file with crosstalk cancellation (like the one from homeaudiofidelity)

 

you’ll get back and side effects from 2 channels recordings (not all of them, though). You still have to own a very good pair of speakers, active or passive, a PC (MAC for BACCH system) and a player with a convolution engine (or Roon server, it’s far easier). That’s all.

[witchdoctor]

55 minutes ago, Yucca06 said:

If you want immersive audio, you don’t need more than 2 speakers at all (and I had a quad system before...)

 

... but only a BACCH system, or a convolution file with crosstalk cancellation (like the one from homeaudiofidelity)

 

you’ll get back and side effects from 2 channels recordings (not all of them, though). You still have to own a very good pair of speakers, active or passive, a PC (MAC for BACCH system) and a player with a convolution engine (or Roon server, it’s far easier). That’s all.

I think they discussed this at AES. You need a special processor and then place the speakers fairly close together in a dipole position. 
Have you got one of those processors? 
 

[Yucca06]

@Witchdoctor : your description with close speakers is from ambiophonics, it’s a good alternative also for Xtalk cancellation, but not what I’m talking about.

 

...About the BACCH system : not really a special processor (only for the high end version, Dac included), but « only » a MacOS software, binaural mics and a RME fireface for real time head tracking (see Michael Lavorgna’s reports on Audiostream)

 

entry ticket for BACCH4Mac is about $5000

 

I don’t own this system, but I’m using the homeaudiofidelity convolution file with crosstalk cancellation, loaded into roon on my rig. Certainly not the same level of performance (but who knows ?) but far far far less expensive...and very effective to say the least.

(you only need to send a few measures of your system...and your head for this one, so only have to buy a calibrated mic + you can use a free software like REW)

[witchdoctor]

1 hour ago, Yucca06 said:

@Witchdoctor : your description with close speakers is from ambiophonics, it’s a good alternative also for Xtalk cancellation, but not what I’m talking about.

 

...About the BACCH system : not really a special processor (only for the high end version, Dac included), but « only » a MacOS software, binaural mics and a RME fireface for real time head tracking (see Michael Lavorgna’s reports on Audiostream)

 

entry ticket for BACCH4Mac is about $5000

 

I don’t own this system, but I’m using the homeaudiofidelity convolution file with crosstalk cancellation, loaded into roon on my rig. Certainly not the same level of performance (but who knows ?) but far far far less expensive...and very effective to say the least.

(you only need to send a few measures of your system...and your head for this one, so only have to buy a calibrated mic + you can use a free software like REW)

Thanks yucca06, if you could post a pic that would be great, WD

[Yucca06]

A pic of what ? I didn’t physically change anything in my system to make it work.

 

As I said, i’m only using a convolution file inside roon, with crosstalk cancellation for now. And it works perfectly as expected (from homeaudiofidelity.com)

 

You’ve got lots of pics of BACCH systems anywhere, just search Theoretica in google,  or lavorgna’s reviews on audiostream.

 

and for ambiophonics :  It lives for many years now, also many many infos everywhere. You also have some threads there in the multichannel subforum...

 

Don’t expect these systems to work like discreet multichannel files, though. You « only » hear the perfect stereo like it should be heard from the beginning. Some registerings are very spectacular (mainly modern music, and specially electro), but you get quite small improvements with classical music and/or chamber music : only better separation/wider image, but not very huge.

i’d say it improves 50 to 70% of the recordings, and from them maybe 10 to 20% who can be heard as if they were in real multichannel (back effects...)

so it works with every stereo file, but it’s not the same  as a 5.1 dts ie. (not as spectacular, but still very nice and immersive for a fraction of the price of back/center speakers + a processor)

[witchdoctor]

I found this video that compares the Yammies and the JBL's:

 

 

[Lighthouse]

I am sorry Witchdoctor, but surround is unfortunately NOT the future of audio, anytime in future for at least 30~40 years from now.

 

2 Problems follow :

 

1) Young people just do not have money to buy any semi-decent surround setups that involved in more than 2 speakers.

2) Most people just do not have even space to put stereo speakers, let alone surround system.

 

There is no secret why suddenly soundbars became so popular. People now live in much smaller home and only thing that could actually fit into is now a single soundbar and maybe subwoofer, if those young buyers are smart enough to not hide 'that bulky, useless box' into the deepest corner of the room.

 

Only way to go forward for surround is on headphones, such as Smyth Realiser here.

http://www.smyth-research.com/

 

Or common surround headphone technologies such as Dolby headphones or DTS headphones X.

[witchdoctor]

7 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I am sorry Witchdoctor, but surround is unfortunately NOT the future of audio, anytime in future for at least 30~40 years from now.

 

2 Problems follow :

 

1) Young people just do not have money to buy any semi-decent surround setups that involved in more than 2 speakers.

2) Most people just do not have even space to put stereo speakers, let alone surround system.

 

There is no secret why suddenly soundbars became so popular. People now live in much smaller home and only thing that could actually fit into is now a single soundbar and maybe subwoofer, if those young buyers are smart enough to not hide 'that bulky, useless box' into the deepest corner of the room.

 

Only way to go forward for surround is on headphones, such as Smyth Realiser here.

http://www.smyth-research.com/

 

Or common surround headphone technologies such as Dolby headphones or DTS headphones X.

I agree about young people being more into two channel. The title of this thread is SOA (state of the art) immersive audio. I think members here would be more interested in SOA than say a college student. I agree that SOA won't get mass adoption but neither will speakers that cost more than $2K.
So, did you know there are soundbars that claim to do immersive audio?

That there are new family friendly systems that try to disappear in a living room while offering immersive?

The industry is tilting in this direction. These solutions are not SOA but meet demand that is targeted towards the blue collar consumer.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/categories/sound-bar.html

 

https://hometheaterreview.com/focal-sib-evo-atmos-512-home-cinema-system-reviewed/

[witchdoctor]

So when you have a home theater it is fun to invite people over. My friends and relatives are non-audiophiles but have good hearing. I like to put on a song and then cycle through different formats (level matched) with my remote. They have no idea what I am changing. I'll play two channel, switch to multichannel, then immersive. For music they pick Auro 3D upmixed every time. When they comeback and I don't have auro engaged they complain, "hey, this doesn't sound like last time".