What are my rights here in Ontario canada ? ​​​​​​​

[Indydan]

4 minutes ago, RoseKloud666 said:

@jcbenten

 

Thank you 

"what is the rating of the amp for the entire range (20-20K hz)? "

 

Its the Hegel 160 , i looked and dont evidence those specs 

Im slowly understanding that lesser wattage than the speakers rating doesnt mean under powering my speakers , or losing punch/power/volume (Am i correct so far?)

 

Even that 70 watts will satisfactorily power my 250W speakers doesnt make sense to me , but somehow 70W can satisfy 250W Dyns

Thanks to all

 

 

 

I am not sure what you mean. There is no such thing as 250 watt speakers. Speakers don't have watts. What that spec most likely means, is that the speakers can take 250 watts maximum, not that they need 250 watts. 

[RoseKloud666]

1 minute ago, Indydan said:

 

I am not sure what you mean. There is no such thing as 250 watt speakers. Speakers don't have watts. What that spec most likely means, is that the speakers can take 250 watts maximum, not that they need 250 watts. 

My thick grape is slowly grasping this idea 

Cheers for the patience 

I m under the impression more watts equal more  volume ?

Yes i want more than volume , but i do love to feel the music , but not at the expense of the rest of the audio experience 

In that thinking a 250 watt amp would be louder than a 70 watt amp or even a 150 watt amp

Now im slowly seeing that other factors are high current capability (of amp) is also a factor in how loud the speaker can be driven and that speaker Watts is simply their top watts they can handle , not that they require it to perform great 

So then a 70 watt Naim , or a 150 watt Hegel with a decent high current capability can also be as loud as a more powerful (in watts ) amplifier with less  current capability?

Where in specs do i determine high current capability ?

Cheers

 

[Indydan]

I looked at the specs of your speakers and found that 250 watts.

 

This is the spec: IEC power handling > 250 watts

 

That is a somewhat complicated spec to understand. It does not mean the speaker requires 250 watts to operate. Also, the watts in the IEC rating are not like the watts in amplifier ratings. An amp rated at 50 watts, means a clean 50 watts with no distortion. That same 50 watt amp can deliver 100 watts, but with some level of distortion.

 

It is not easy to try to match amps and speakers with specs on paper. The best way is to listen to them if possible, or ask a dealer who knows the products.

[RoseKloud666]

Just now, Indydan said:

I looked at the specs of your speakers and found that 250 watts.

 

This is the spec: IEC power handling > 250 watts

 

That is a somewhat complicated spec to understand. It does not mean the speaker requires 250 watts to operate. Also, the watts in the IEC rating are not like the watts in amplifier ratings. An amp rated at 50 watts, means a clean 50 watts with no distortion. That same 50 watt amp can deliver 100 watts, but with some level of distortion.

 

It is not easy to try to match amps and speakers with specs on paper. The best way is to listen to them if possible, or ask a dealer who knows the products.

Thanks Indydan

I look forward to learning more 

I feel good i will be soon able to make an informed decision

Is that Indy as in the 500 , or as in music ?

Cheers

[Indydan]

12 minutes ago, RoseKloud666 said:

My thick grape is slowly grasping this idea 

Cheers for the patience 

 

No problem!

I m under the impression more watts equal more  volume ?

 

Not always. Different manufacturers can report their watts differently. One manufacturer might make an amp that at 50 watts has 0.002% distortion, and 80 watts 0.03% distortion. He can decide to market his amp as 80 watts. Another might say his amp is 50 watts, but at that wattage it has 0.000000001% distortion. The watts in amp specs are NOT a maximum. They are the watts taken somewhere along the amps power curve. Watts VS distortion. That is why it is difficult to compare watts on paper. Their is no rule that manufacturers must report their watt ratings at the same level of distortion.

 

Also, doubling the amp power, only raises loudness by 3db. If a 50 watt amp produces 95 clean db without clipping, all other things being equal, a 100 watt amp will produce only 3db more, thus 98db. You do not double loudness by doubling watts. Not even close!

Yes i want more than volume , but i do love to feel the music , but not at the expense of the rest of the audio experience 

In that thinking a 250 watt amp would be louder than a 70 watt amp or even a 150 watt amp

Now im slowly seeing that other factors are high current capability (of amp) is also a factor in how loud the speaker can be driven and that speaker Watts is simply their top watts they can handle , not that they require it to perform great 

So then a 70 watt Naim , or a 150 watt Hegel with a decent high current capability can also be as loud as a more powerful (in watts ) amplifier with less  current capability?

 

Yes. there are many factors at play. 

Where in specs do i determine high current capability ?

 

I don't believe you can do this reliably. The best way is to hear the amp and speakers together, or ask dealers. 

Cheers

 

 

Oops. You have to click in the top window to see my comments. I replied in bold to your questions within your post.

[Indydan]

6 minutes ago, RoseKloud666 said:

Thanks Indydan

I look forward to learning more 

I feel good i will be soon able to make an informed decision

Is that Indy as in the 500 , or as in music ?

Cheers

 

Indy is an old nickname I have, because many years ago I dressed up as Indiana Jones for halloween! 

[RoseKloud666]

8 minutes ago, Indydan said:

 

Indy is an old nickname I have, because many years ago I dressed up as Indiana Jones for halloween! 

Nice And that has stuck :)-

And thank you for all

Maybe i can now not focus so hard on my 250W in speakers and needing 250W in amp to satisfy speakers and myself

But when mommas happy(My Dyns because im single lol) papas also happy

Ill likely still be concerned as to where the satisfying line can be safely cut off 

Maybe the Hegel 160 can satisfy momma and me , but still a huge 1800.00 unfair trade , a huge loss for me (H160 is now 3200.00 as H190 is close o release ) 

 

Does the H160 have a high quality beefy power supply and high current capability ?

 

[gmgraves]

38 minutes ago, RoseKloud666 said:

My thick grape is slowly grasping this idea 

Cheers for the patience 

I m under the impression more watts equal more  volume ?

Yes i want more than volume , but i do love to feel the music , but not at the expense of the rest of the audio experience 

In that thinking a 250 watt amp would be louder than a 70 watt amp or even a 150 watt amp

Now im slowly seeing that other factors are high current capability (of amp) is also a factor in how loud the speaker can be driven and that speaker Watts is simply their top watts they can handle , not that they require it to perform great 

So then a 70 watt Naim , or a 150 watt Hegel with a decent high current capability can also be as loud as a more powerful (in watts ) amplifier with less  current capability?

Where in specs do i determine high current capability ?

Cheers

 

The speaker spec that determines the power requirement of the amplifier, is the sensitivity of the speaker. That is to say, how much sound a given speaker will produce when fed ONE Watt measured from 1 meter away directly in front of the speaker. For instance, a speaker rated at 85dB is considered a low efficiency speaker and needs a larger amp than one rated at 95dB which is considered a medium efficiency speaker and requires fewer Watts to achieve the same volume level as the one rated at 85dB. A 105dB or greater speaker is a high efficiency speaker and an amp of 10 Watts can run you out of an average sized room, it's so loud. When I was a teen, a buddy of mine's dad had a pair of Klipshorns. We hooked a 6 transistor radio to the thing one day and it played so loud we had to turn it down! The radio put out about 100 milliWatts (1/10th of a Watt)! Another consideration is room size. If you have an average size modern living room of approximately 10 ft X 12 ft (3 meters X 3.66 meters) then even a very inefficient speaker of 85dB@1Watt/1 meter should not need more than 100 Watts/channel to literally raise the roof! Of course, bigger rooms require more power to get the same volume levels (or trade-in your speakers for a more efficient pair and keep your 100 Watt/channel amp. (see the relationship?) The speaker's watt rating is the maximum power that the speaker's voice coils can handle before they get too hot and damage the speaker. That does not mean that you couldn't use a speaker rated at 250 Watts max with an 500 Watt amplifier. It is unlikely that you would ever use anywhere near the 250 Watt rating of your speaker, much less the 500 Watts of your amp! Most people never use more than a few watts of whatever sized amplifier, anyway, except on loud crescendos and very deep bass like a large pipe organ. That's where the power is needed.

 

On power Vs volume: In order to double the volume of a 50 Watt amplifier, you'd need to increase the power to a 500 Watt amplifier! That's the relationship.

[RoseKloud666]

48 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

The speaker spec that determines the power requirement of the amplifier, is the sensitivity of the speaker. That is to say, how much sound a given speaker will produce when fed ONE Watt measured from 1 meter away directly in front of the speaker. For instance, a speaker rated at 85dB is considered a low efficiency speaker and needs a larger amp than one rated at 95dB which is considered a medium efficiency speaker and requires fewer Watts to achieve the same volume level as the one rated at 85dB. A 105dB or greater speaker is a high efficiency speaker and an amp of 10 Watts can run you out of an average sized room, it's so loud. When I was a teen, a buddy of mine's dad had a pair of Klipshorns. We hooked a 6 transistor radio to the thing one day and it played so loud we had to turn it down! The radio put out about 100 milliWatts (1/10th of a Watt)! Another consideration is room size. If you have an average size modern living room of approximately 10 ft X 12 ft (3 meters X 3.66 meters) then even a very inefficient speaker of 85dB@1Watt/1 meter should not need more than 100 Watts/channel to literally raise the roof! Of course, bigger rooms require more power to get the same volume levels (or trade-in your speakers for a more efficient pair and keep your 100 Watt/channel amp. (see the relationship?) The speaker's watt rating is the maximum power that the speaker's voice coils can handle before they get too hot and damage the speaker. That does not mean that you couldn't use a speaker rated at 250 Watts max with an 500 Watt amplifier. It is unlikely that you would ever use anywhere near the 250 Watt rating of your speaker, much less the 500 Watts of your amp! Most people never use more than a few watts of whatever sized amplifier, anyway, except on loud crescendos and very deep bass like a large pipe organ. That's where the power is needed.

 

On power Vs volume: In order to double the volume of a 50 Watt amplifier, you'd need to increase the power to a 500 Watt amplifier! That's the relationship.

Thank you mate

[RoseKloud666]

Im seriously considering the Hegel H360 , but the price difference between it and my returning amp is 2k Canadian dollars 

To raise those funds will take more time than im willing to wait , without an amp , without music(Ya i have a TV etc...not the same . Music via tv is horrible) .

It was the DAC in the Hegel (300 and 360) that concerned me , and made me think i had to keep my Sim audio 280D-with mind to be satisfied , as the 280D will resolve to DSD 256 

It seems my new infos reveal the H 300 and the 360 have the H 30 DAC and will resolve natively , no downsampling , DSD 128 . (Tho ill need a windows plug in) .

If thats true , DSD 128 satisfies me "fully and completely"(Yes a Hip/Gord reference RIP Gord)

 

So far is all my infos correct ?

If so i need to ask what could i ask/expect as a Canadian dollar figure for my 280D-with mind . About 1 year old ,obviously remote and all original box etc .

Thank you
 

[gmgraves]

45 minutes ago, RoseKloud666 said:

Im seriously considering the Hegel H360 , but the price difference between it and my returning amp is 2k Canadian dollars 

To raise those funds will take more time than im willing to wait , without an amp , without music(Ya i have a TV etc...not the same . Music via tv is horrible) .

It was the DAC in the Hegel (300 and 360) that concerned me , and made me think i had to keep my Sim audio 280D-with mind to be satisfied , as the 280D will resolve to DSD 256 

It seems my new infos reveal the H 300 and the 360 have the H 30 DAC and will resolve natively , no downsampling , DSD 128 . (Tho ill need a windows plug in) .

If thats true , DSD 128 satisfies me "fully and completely"(Yes a Hip/Gord reference RIP Gord)

 

So far is all my infos correct ?

If so i need to ask what could i ask/expect as a Canadian dollar figure for my 280D-with mind . About 1 year old ,obviously remote and all original box etc .

Thank you
 

 

First of all, just because an amp (or pre-amp) model that you are contemplating has a built-in DAC doesn't mean that you are obligated to use it. If you think you have a better out-board DAC feel free to ignore the one in your new amp or preamp.  

[RoseKloud666]

@gmgraves 

Thanks for that mate

Yes i understand i can choose to use another DAC 

My concern was the Hegel 360 DAC was a throw in or 2nd thought , which i now hear it is a stellar dac , which will allow me to flog my Sim 280D with mind , and allow me to afford the H 360 alot sooner
 

 

[Allan F]

Returning to the legal issue, if he won't return your money, you should consider suing him in Small Claims Court, where you can represent yourself without a lawyer:  Ontario Small Claims Court

 

The link describes the procedure. Make sure that you have all relevant documents, including the bill of sale and the warranty.

 

[Allan F]

On 10/19/2017 at 7:09 PM, GUTB said:

Canada does not favor the consumer, sorry.

 

Don't bother seeking support from your fellow Canadians, you will receive none. The BBB does nothing. Consider American manufacturers from whom you will receive fair dealing at non-ripoff prices.

 

Oh,  really!? And what law school did you graduate from?

 

I will assume that your first statement was made out of ignorance because civil law is a matter governed by provincial and not federal law, although provinces may have similar legislation.

[Allan F]

Sorry, duplicate post.

[RoseKloud666]

@Allan FThank you

[ecwl]

I have to admit I have been reading this thread and because there are a lot of details not outlined, I found the situation a bit more complicated than I think the post seems to portray. And I understand OP's desire to obscure the city the purchase was made because it might identify the manufacturer or the dealer.

 

I'm guessing that RoseKloud666 bought a custom-made locally-made tube amplifier for $5k. Because I cannot imagine a scenario why anyone else would buy a $5k solid state amplifier that is not made by a mainstream manufacturer. But I can see people wanting a high-powered tube amplifier and being willing to pay $5k as it'll still be cheaper than other mainstream high-powered tube amplifiers?

 

Because I'm also unsure how else a solid state amplifier can get shorted by the Dynaudio speakers to a point where the repair would cost $700. It would be very unusual for any solid state amplifier over $2k to be overdriven to a point where it gets shorted and needs an expensive repair. A tube amplifier would also explain why the warranty period is so short. But a tube amplifier might carry a 2 year parts and labour warranty but tubes are covered for 90 days. Please correct me if my guess of a tube amplifier is wrong.

 

So as PeterSt pointed out, and particularly for Dynaudio speakers where they are rated at 4 ohms but can certainly drop below, you are more likely to short the tube amplifier if over-driven.

 

Now I still agree with RoseKloud666 that the fault is the dealer but I look at it from a different perspective. It sounds like RoseKloud666 clearly wanted a Bryston 4B3 (which would be about the same price) and for some reason, the dealer sold you the tube amplifier instead. And the dealer knew that RoseKloud666 wanted to drive the Focus 340 and he knew that the whole point of custom building the tube amplifier is to drive the speakers loud. So technically, there is nothing wrong with the tube amplifier except that it cannot drive low-impedance speakers loud. So basically, the dealer sold RoseKloud666 the wrong amplifier for the speakers.

 

That said, I don't understand why the dealer would do such a thing. It is a bit confusing and certainly doesn't improve customer satisfaction.

 

Now that the tube amplifier has shorted twice, the dealer wants to charge OP for the repair and still feels that there is nothing wrong with the amplifier (which is technically true except it can't drive low-impedance speakers moderately loud). So it sounds like the the dealer feels that RoseKloud666 has paid him $4300 only (because of the $700 repair) and the dealer is willing to trade a Hegel 160 which I thought is worth $4000 canadian new (and I thought Hegel H190 is around $4800). I know that RoseKloud666 feels that he was cheated by the dealer. But I think from the dealer's perspective, if the dealer cannot recognize that he sold you an inappropriate amplifier that should not be used to drive your speakers, he is going to think that just because you wrecked your amplifier and are unhappy with it so the dealer shouldn't have to take a loss on the product.

 

So my take is to go back to the dealer and say that the dealer knew you wanted to drive your Focus 340 loud and should have never sold you a tube amplifier that can't handle low-impedance speakers. A lot of speakers that are quoted at 4 ohms drop below 4 ohms so any dealer that sells tube amplifiers should be well aware of that. You didn't ask for the amplifier, the dealer recommended you to buy it instead. This is why you don't want to pay the $700 for repairs because you don't think the amplifier is capable of driving your speakers loud enough without shorting again. Maybe as a result, your dealer would be more willing to just get you a new Bryston 4B3 in trade instead which was what you originally wanted all along. Or at least, maybe the dealer can get you a reasonable deal on the Bryston.

 

[Allan F]

27 minutes ago, ecwl said:

So my take is to go back to the dealer and say that the dealer knew you wanted to drive your Focus 340 loud and should have never sold you a tube amplifier that can't handle low-impedance speakers. A lot of speakers that are quoted at 4 ohms drop below 4 ohms so any dealer that sells tube amplifiers should be well aware of that. You didn't ask for the amplifier, the dealer recommended you to buy it instead. This is why you don't want to pay the $700 for repairs because you don't think the amplifier is capable of driving your speakers loud enough without shorting again. Maybe as a result, your dealer would be more willing to just get you a new Bryston 4B3 in trade instead which was what you originally wanted all along. Or at least, maybe the dealer can get you a reasonable deal on the Bryston.

 

I totally agree that, since the dealer knew what speakers were to be driven by the amplifier, any responsibility for a failure of the amp due to the impedance of the speakers must lie with the dealer. Moreover, if there was a risk that the amplifier would fail because of the low impedance of the speakers, the dealer had a duty to warn the customer about such a possible failure. Assuming that the speakers were checked out and given a clean bill of health as reported, and given that the dealer recommended this particular amp, the dealer should either give a credit for the full cost of the amplifier toward the purchase of another one or give the purchaser a full refund. Under these circumstances, the cost of any repairs should be the sole responsibility of the dealer.

[GregWormald]

4 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

I totally agree that, since the dealer knew what speakers were to be driven by the amplifier, any responsibility for a failure of the amp due to the impedance of the speakers must lie with the dealer. Moreover, if there was a risk that the amplifier would fail because of the low impedance of the speakers, the dealer had a duty to warn the customer about such a possible failure. Assuming that the speakers were checked out and given a clean bill of health as reported, and given that the dealer recommended this particular amp, the dealer should either give a credit for the full cost of the amplifier toward the purchase of another one or give the purchaser a full refund. Under these circumstances, the cost of any repairs should be the sole responsibility of the dealer.

 

Yes--this.

 

However, the issue is also how to get a reliable (present one isn't) amp that has enough power and current capability to drive the 4 ohm speakers (current one is doubtful). If the dealer won't accept the responsibility no matter what is said, then the options are to take the Hegel offer (this amp should be suitable--but check with Hegel) or sue (no certainty of a good outcome).

 

Paying the repair bill and being stuck with an amp of proven unreliability doesn't seem like a solution at all to me, and I'd be wary of taking the current amp back under any circumstances.

 

Personally, I'd be pushing for a full refund and buying elsewhere or trying for a refund of the difference between the current amp (less the repair costs) and the current Hegel cost and take the Hegel.

 

In the end I'd rather have paid too much and have something good (hey, I just bought a new Porsche!) than have something bad.

 

Greg

p.s. Rose--the fact that the Hegel goes from 150 watts @ 8 ohms to 250 watts at 4 ohms shows that it has a good current capability.

 

[RoseKloud666]

7 hours ago, GregWormald said:

 

Yes--this.

 

However, the issue is also how to get a reliable (present one isn't) amp that has enough power and current capability to drive the 4 ohm speakers (current one is doubtful). If the dealer won't accept the responsibility no matter what is said, then the options are to take the Hegel offer (this amp should be suitable--but check with Hegel) or sue (no certainty of a good outcome).

 

Paying the repair bill and being stuck with an amp of proven unreliability doesn't seem like a solution at all to me, and I'd be wary of taking the current amp back under any circumstances.

 

Personally, I'd be pushing for a full refund and buying elsewhere or trying for a refund of the difference between the current amp (less the repair costs) and the current Hegel cost and take the Hegel.

 

In the end I'd rather have paid too much and have something good (hey, I just bought a new Porsche!) than have something bad.

 

Greg

p.s. Rose--the fact that the Hegel goes from 150 watts @ 8 ohms to 250 watts at 4 ohms shows that it has a good current capability.

 

@GregWormald

 

"So basically, the dealer sold RoseKloud666 the wrong amplifier for the speakers."

He also sold me the speakers and he has the exact match in his showroom 

No i will not take the failed amp back .If he has so much confidence in it , then he can have it 

Even if they can be over driven , i did not as i have neighbours bedrooms right below speakers and their childrens .Unless my temptation to do so can blow the amp

If anything in his show room i should of over drove them .I drove them hard and loud , esp listening to "And when he falleth" by Theatre of Tragedy 

 "current capability."

I hear the Hegels have that current capability ,also Bryston(?) So lower watts does not mean not loud/powerful 

 

How does one determine  "current capability." in an amp from specs? when deciding on a purchase ?

Cheers
 

[GUTB]

11 hours ago, ecwl said:

I have to admit I have been reading this thread and because there are a lot of details not outlined, I found the situation a bit more complicated than I think the post seems to portray. And I understand OP's desire to obscure the city the purchase was made because it might identify the manufacturer or the dealer.

 

I'm guessing that RoseKloud666 bought a custom-made locally-made tube amplifier for $5k. Because I cannot imagine a scenario why anyone else would buy a $5k solid state amplifier that is not made by a mainstream manufacturer. But I can see people wanting a high-powered tube amplifier and being willing to pay $5k as it'll still be cheaper than other mainstream high-powered tube amplifiers?

 

Because I'm also unsure how else a solid state amplifier can get shorted by the Dynaudio speakers to a point where the repair would cost $700. It would be very unusual for any solid state amplifier over $2k to be overdriven to a point where it gets shorted and needs an expensive repair. A tube amplifier would also explain why the warranty period is so short. But a tube amplifier might carry a 2 year parts and labour warranty but tubes are covered for 90 days. Please correct me if my guess of a tube amplifier is wrong.

 

So as PeterSt pointed out, and particularly for Dynaudio speakers where they are rated at 4 ohms but can certainly drop below, you are more likely to short the tube amplifier if over-driven.

 

Now I still agree with RoseKloud666 that the fault is the dealer but I look at it from a different perspective. It sounds like RoseKloud666 clearly wanted a Bryston 4B3 (which would be about the same price) and for some reason, the dealer sold you the tube amplifier instead. And the dealer knew that RoseKloud666 wanted to drive the Focus 340 and he knew that the whole point of custom building the tube amplifier is to drive the speakers loud. So technically, there is nothing wrong with the tube amplifier except that it cannot drive low-impedance speakers loud. So basically, the dealer sold RoseKloud666 the wrong amplifier for the speakers.

 

That said, I don't understand why the dealer would do such a thing. It is a bit confusing and certainly doesn't improve customer satisfaction.

 

Now that the tube amplifier has shorted twice, the dealer wants to charge OP for the repair and still feels that there is nothing wrong with the amplifier (which is technically true except it can't drive low-impedance speakers moderately loud). So it sounds like the the dealer feels that RoseKloud666 has paid him $4300 only (because of the $700 repair) and the dealer is willing to trade a Hegel 160 which I thought is worth $4000 canadian new (and I thought Hegel H190 is around $4800). I know that RoseKloud666 feels that he was cheated by the dealer. But I think from the dealer's perspective, if the dealer cannot recognize that he sold you an inappropriate amplifier that should not be used to drive your speakers, he is going to think that just because you wrecked your amplifier and are unhappy with it so the dealer shouldn't have to take a loss on the product.

 

So my take is to go back to the dealer and say that the dealer knew you wanted to drive your Focus 340 loud and should have never sold you a tube amplifier that can't handle low-impedance speakers. A lot of speakers that are quoted at 4 ohms drop below 4 ohms so any dealer that sells tube amplifiers should be well aware of that. You didn't ask for the amplifier, the dealer recommended you to buy it instead. This is why you don't want to pay the $700 for repairs because you don't think the amplifier is capable of driving your speakers loud enough without shorting again. Maybe as a result, your dealer would be more willing to just get you a new Bryston 4B3 in trade instead which was what you originally wanted all along. Or at least, maybe the dealer can get you a reasonable deal on the Bryston.

 

 

Haha another Canadian joins the fray; notice how they tend to take the side of the wrong-doer?

[Allan F]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

Haha another Canadian joins the fray; notice how they tend to take the side of the wrong-doer?

[Panelhead]

  A TUBE amplifier. This is starting to gel. 

  Long time ago Naim amps and certain speaker cables were a no-no. Friend blew up his Naim amp using MIT speaker cables due to capacitance of the cables. The dealer never told him and he was out more than 700.00 due to abuse.

  But tube amps are different. The output transformer is much more load friendly. 

  If I wanted a nice amp to drive your speakers I would get a Job Integrated. Or if I needed a cheap  high power amp a Crown XLS-2502. Do not laugh about the Crown. It is a fine amplifier that can drive your speakers. 

  You did not seem to provide much detail on the particulars of the system. 

[RoseKloud666]

@Panelhead

 

No its not a tube , its a solid state 

Im sure i ve said that a few posts back when a member asked 

 

thanks for the info as well

[GUTB]

2 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

Couldn’t you understand that’s it not a tube amp? 250 WPC...that would be one hell of a tube amp.

 

But that doesn’t matter, all that matters is trying to find out why the victim should be screwed. God I grew up surrounded with that sick attitude.