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No More Audiophile Hassles


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5 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

My metric is to be able to put on the "crappiest" recording, wind up the volume until it's realistic for the type of music being performed, and for the experience to be as involving, "immersive", and "I am there!" as it was for anyone with the actual performers - 99.99999...% of systems are nowhere near this goal, miles away usually ...

You should try an aftermaster pro at www.aftermasterpro.com

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10 minutes ago, witchdoctor said:

You should try an aftermaster pro at www.aftermasterpro.com

 

Not necessary. And, I note threads like this, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-aftermaster-pro-and-why-its-bullsh-t™.806030/

 

The answers lie in lifting the standard of replay to the highest level - this then allows one's own, internal, mental filtering and 'correcting' to action what's necessary. Unless one has done this with a system, and then realised how much damage is done by conventional playback to the recorded sound, making it impossible for this natural process to take place, then it probably will never be understood. Our minds want the sound to make sense, to unscramble what comes in - but typically too much extraneous distortion, noise, anomalies, whatever you want to call it, are added to the mix within the playback chain - and our minds give up ... it sounds like, well, crap ...

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8 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Not necessary. And, I note threads like this, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-aftermaster-pro-and-why-its-bullsh-t™.806030/

 

The answers lie in lifting the standard of replay to the highest level - this then allows one's own, internal, mental filtering and 'correcting' to action what's necessary. Unless one has done this with a system, and then realised how much damage is done by conventional playback to the recorded sound, making it impossible for this natural process to take place, then it probably will never be understood. Our minds want the sound to make sense, to unscramble what comes in - but typically too much extraneous distortion, noise, anomalies, whatever you want to call it, are added to the mix within the playback chain - and our minds give up ... it sounds like, well, crap ...

 

...and this is where "listening fatigue" comes from.  DSP that claims to make "everything" sound better is typically snake oil.

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9 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Not necessary. And, I note threads like this, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-aftermaster-pro-and-why-its-bullsh-t™.806030/

 

The answers lie in lifting the standard of replay to the highest level - this then allows one's own, internal, mental filtering and 'correcting' to action what's necessary. Unless one has done this with a system, and then realised how much damage is done by conventional playback to the recorded sound, making it impossible for this natural process to take place, then it probably will never be understood. Our minds want the sound to make sense, to unscramble what comes in - but typically too much extraneous distortion, noise, anomalies, whatever you want to call it, are added to the mix within the playback chain - and our minds give up ... it sounds like, well, crap ...

None of this stuff is "necessary". I said TRY it. Just go to www.aftermasterpro.com, they have A/B tracks posted so you can compare. This is a new category of product that remasters the original track.

As far as "lifting the standard of replay to the highest level" why not call Harry Potter? Good luck with that :)

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On 10/18/2017 at 6:10 AM, witchdoctor said:

Yep, that's who did my consultation, so far so good.

I think you will be very happy with the results

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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20 hours ago, wgscott said:

 

Especially since it is so out of character for this place.

 

He's been on this Jihad for awhile now.  Like most religious fanatics, he is impervious to facts and reason.  I very much doubt he could even identify the topology of the amp in a blind test.

Pretty much everyone around who still says "Class D sucks" in on an audio Jihad.

While it may still be true that the very best amps in the world aren't Class D, those amps tend to cost north of $10K. The better Class D amps today cost a fraction of that and successfully compete with pretty much anything under $10K.

This is born out by lots of users and reviewers (even those who previously didn't like Class D). 

Sighted listening often ruins the sound of Class D amps for many people.

 

But more on topic: I think these days your hypothesis would result in what I'd call "very good sound" for not much money.  Something way better than what I thought sounded good 40 or even 25 years ago.

 

But not what I'm looking for as an audiophile. That last 10, 5, or 1 percent is a VERY steep curve of diminishing returns, which is how we get to the 10, 20, and $30K systems. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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17 hours ago, cjf said:

All it takes is a good bag of "Green" (and I don't mean money) to make even the crappiest gear to sound 10x better then it is.

 

If I were to start over again today and only had $5K to spend on a system I would go "ALL IN" on a headphone setup and call it a day.

 

Back in the day I entertained the theory that full artistic appreciation of music

was realized by being as chemically/organically altered as the musicians were

when the music was recorded.  Concerns of mortality won out and the visceral

experiences of psychedelia et al are fond fading memories.  To quote the great

philosophers, Wishbone Ash, "growing up means losing freinds."

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On 10/17/2017 at 8:29 PM, esldude said:

So given a Teac or Emotiva Stealth, what do we loose [sic] with Bill's other compromises?

 

With redbook, I am not convinced you loose [sic] a thing.

 

Loose (v.) to free or release something

lose (v.) to be able to find or maintain something, to give up or forfeit something

 

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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2 hours ago, firedog said:

Pretty much everyone around who still says "Class D sucks" in on an audio Jihad.

While it may still be true that the very best amps in the world aren't Class D, those amps tend to cost north of $10K. The better Class D amps today cost a fraction of that and successfully compete with pretty much anything under $10K.

This is born out by lots of users and reviewers (even those who previously didn't like Class D). 

Sighted listening often ruins the sound of Class D amps for many people.

 

But more on topic: I think these days your hypothesis would result in what I'd call "very good sound" for not much money.  Something way better than what I thought sounded good 40 or even 25 years ago.

 

But not what I'm looking for as an audiophile. That last 10, 5, or 1 percent is a VERY steep curve of diminishing returns, which is how we get to the 10, 20, and $30K systems. 

 

Class D sucks. I’m sorry, but it’s true. That’s not an opinion, but a fact.

 

Class D operates via a lossy mechanism — translatating an analog signal into a square wave at very low frequency and then back again. Not only is there a loss of audio information, the low modulation frequency demands a harsh filter scheme that ends up negatively impacting the output further. Modern class D topologies use a variety of tricks to try and mask the poor SQ, push down modulation distortion, etc, but nothing solves the fact that the technology is essentially a compromise with quality.

 

Let’s put it this way: what is the lowest frequency used by DSD — 2.8Mhz, which is widely considered to be too low. Modern class D modules run at 400-500 KHz — in other words, way, way too low. 

 

That’s not to say class D has nothing going for it; by virtue of converting the input into a square wave, the only things which get amplified are those signals which should be amplified. Linear amplification amplifies everything, including junk on the line that shouldn’t be there making class D inherently quieter. Driver control is excellent. And if you don’t care about soundstage or euphonics than class D may be a great choice. Let’s say you are listening in an environment or with equipment that won’t give you soundstage or SQ nuances anyway — in which case, class D might be just fine. When I refer to class D of course I mean modern class D modules like NCore, Pascal, etc. Old-generation stuff is simply unlistenable, and should be avoided like a plague from Hell.

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13 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Class D sucks. I’m sorry, but it’s true. That’s not an opinion, but a fact.

 

That is an opinion. Had you said, "most Class D sucks", it might qualify as a fact. As with many technologies, it depends on the implementation. Devialet, for example, combines Class A with Class D and most who have heard it would opine that it does anything but suck. :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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30 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Are you sure is isn't:

Loosen (v.) to free or release something

 

I can't ever remember either hearing or using "loose" as a verb.

Loosen (v.) to make less tight.

Re: 'lose' vs 'loose': Oxford Dictionary

I didn't include the more common definition of 'loose' as adjective, because it was used as a verb. As you know, 'loose' is frequently and wrongly used in place of 'lose'. As a lawyer, I used to see police continually use 'loose' instead of 'lose' in their reports and it used to drive me crazy.  I am retired but when I see it now, It still does. :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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28 minutes ago, GUTB said:

Modern class D topologies use a variety of tricks to try and mask the poor SQ, push down modulation distortion, etc, but nothing solves the fact that the technology is essentially a compromise with quality.

 

 

Well that applies to all components.

 

As for the rest of the screed, oh boy. Not sure what you been listening to.

 

It's like the occasional rant about tube amps being nothing but second harmonic distortion generators...

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7 minutes ago, wushuliu said:

 

Well that applies to all components.

 

As for the rest of the screed, oh boy. Not sure what you been listening to.

 

It's like the occasional rant about tube amps being nothing but second harmonic distortion generators...

 

Am I wrong? Does class D not operate by converting sine waves to 400-500kHz PWM?

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50 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Loose (v.) to free or release something

lose (v.) to be able to find or maintain something, to give up or forfeit something

 

Well thank you.  Now no one will misunderstand.  Such little slips I think deserve a little more slack than in the past.  As is quite often the case, I was posting from a phone and despite swiping the proper lose, it substituted loose.  I made a few other similar corrections in that post, but missed one.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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4 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

Am I wrong? Does class D not operate by converting sine waves to 400-500kHz PWM?

 

Oh, is THAT what the crux of your argument is? In that case, yes. In fact don't they convert at EVEN HIGHER rates? You have to be careful though cause if you go too high it's kind of like crossing the streams with your proton pack.

 

And then you release the audio-ZOOLs.

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1 hour ago, esldude said:

Well thank you.  Now no one will misunderstand.  Such little slips I think deserve a little more slack than in the past.  As is quite often the case, I was posting from a phone and despite swiping the proper lose, it substituted loose.  I made a few other similar corrections in that post, but missed one.  

 

Please feel more than free to take as much slack as will make you feel comfortable and/or loose. :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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46 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Let's declare a phatwa on "Class D sucks"

One could claim class A sucks electronically.  

 

Class D oscillates.  

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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16 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Please feel more than free to take as much slack as will make you feel comfortable and/or loose. :)

 

Agreed. You have nothing to loose...

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

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