No More Audiophile Hassles

[tne]

Bill,

You pose a very good question that many of us consider from time to time.

What metric do you propose to use for "performance"? As we endlessly discuss here on CA, there are differing thoughts on this, and I would enjoy hearing yours.

[Ralf11]

26 minutes ago, esldude said:

Look at the thread.   Apple lossless 16 bit. 

 

when I looked it merely said it _could_ be (was capable of playing) that

[jabbr]

11 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

Look at this video of pink floyd mixing in immersive at abbey road. Notice how abbey road studios looks just like witchdoctor studios (although I use 1 sub, not 8!). You can't do steak without the "voice of god" channel right? 
 

 

 

I'm certain that my very best Pink Floyd experiences were in a college dorm and the speakers were junk, or perhaps in the back seat of a car ... it wasn't the audio that was immersive. Jus sayin'

[jabbr]

21 hours ago, wgscott said:

After seeing a thread titled No More Computer Hassles (in which a computer was replaced by a physical media player with a computer), it got me wondering how much of a performance hit one might take if one replaced all of the audiophile-oriented features with decent-quality consumer-grade options.

I assume everyone also has a “consumer grade” system ... and if you have two systems and you can’t tell the difference, or don’t appreciate it, then you have your answer.

 

I don’t think it needs to be complicated. Would an iFi iDSD be considered “consumer grade” or “audiophile” ... the Solid-Run clearfog I use as an NAA is cheap. My FirstWatt J2 that I also use as a headphone amp is just a slight splurge. The AKG K712 or Senn HD650 phones are a steal.

[AnotherSpin]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

I'm certain that my very best Pink Floyd experiences were in a college dorm and the speakers were junk, or perhaps in the back seat of a car ... it wasn't the audio that was immersive. Jus sayin'

 

Yes.

[davide256]

15 hours ago, GUTB said:

 

Class D sucks — sadly this is a matter of physics and math and not dependent on implementation. DIY especially sucks.

Curious, Stereophile and TAS seem to like the Bel Canto REF600M and at $5K a pair they are within reach of many, unlike the Pass amplifiers. While I enjoy the sound of my tube amplifier, I'll be looking for less of a space heater in my next choice.

[davide256]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

I'm certain that my very best Pink Floyd experiences were in a college dorm and the speakers were junk, or perhaps in the back seat of a car ... it wasn't the audio that was immersive. Jus sayin'

Good old analog LP days ;<) I think Dark Side of the Moon got me hooked into being an audiophile

[davide256]

13 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

One mans steak is another mans hot dog. This is all subjective stuff. IMO any thing that is two channel based is a hot dog, you CAN'T replicate a live event with two speakers, not even a harmonica.
Immersive audio is steak in my book. However this thread is about less of a hassle audiophilia so I stick with my active speaker 2 channel recommendation. 
 

We all have to live with the "hotdog" we can afford  :<)

[wushuliu]

These days, with minimum skills, you can get phenomenal performance via diy. But that's a tough sell when part of this hobby - like any other hobby - is the vanity of showing off something that looks cool/expensive/rare/complicated.

 

I'm sure we would all agree though that compared to 10 years ago, the price/performance ratio has put objectively (as in the true sense of the word, not tribal) audiophile quality within reach of the smallest budget.

[witchdoctor]

11 hours ago, esldude said:

 How to prepare the recordings rather than quality of those recordings themselves.  

You know one thing you said here you nailed, your last sentence about preparing the recordings. I just bought the Aftermaster Pro for less than $200. It "remasters" the signal you send to your dac or preamp and it works great. Trying their website and listen to the demo examples www.aftermasterpro.com.

 

[wgscott]

Just to clarify -- this is a purely hypothetical/speculative question, the flip-side of another thread currently running.

 

I'm reasonably happy with my current main system (Audirvana + on a Mac Mini --> USB or USB/coax or network into a Teac NT-503 --> DIY Class D* bi-amp --> B&W CM7 speakers + Rel sub ± Dirac room correction, mostly lossless and high res and a few DSD). If I do any future upgrade, it would probably be a set of NC-400 amps and active/software crossovers.

 

*Doesn't suck.

 

I also have a bedroom system, which would probably qualify as "boutique" rather than consumer-grade, but it consists merely of an ATV2 (streaming my library via iTunes) --> cheap optical --> Peachtree Nova (original 2009 version) and D5 speakers; the sound from that is remarkably high-quality.

[Jud]

40 minutes ago, jabbr said:

The AKG K712 or Senn HD650 phones are a steal.

 

From time to time there are also headphone deals such as this, for example:

 

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx

[kumakuma]

17 minutes ago, davide256 said:

We all have to live with the "hotdog" we can afford  :<)

 

Or the "hotdog" that the wife lets us buy... 

[wgscott]

Another option is not eating animal products ....

[witchdoctor]

I like getting great deals on pre owned equipment. In this category I LOVE amps by Bob Carver. I got the AV 505 via Craiglist for less than $200. The AV and A category of Carver amps use trickle down tech from the famed Lightstar amp. It injects LIFE into music IMO. That is what I call, steak on a hotdog budget.

I think refurbs can also make great buying opportunities. I bought my processor and my universal disc player as refurbs and saved over $1000 vs new and they both rock and had full warranties.

[wgscott]

11 hours ago, tne said:

Bill,

You pose a very good question that many of us consider from time to time.

What metric do you propose to use for "performance"? As we endlessly discuss here on CA, there are differing thoughts on this, and I would enjoy hearing yours.

 

# goose pimples per square cm of skin.

[GUTB]

2 hours ago, wgscott said:

Just to clarify -- this is a purely hypothetical/speculative question, the flip-side of another thread currently running.

 

I'm reasonably happy with my current main system (Audirvana + on a Mac Mini --> USB or USB/coax or network into a Teac NT-503 --> DIY Class D* bi-amp --> B&W CM7 speakers + Rel sub ± Dirac room correction, mostly lossless and high res and a few DSD). If I do any future upgrade, it would probably be a set of NC-400 amps and active/software crossovers.

 

*Doesn't suck.

 

I also have a bedroom system, which would probably qualify as "boutique" rather than consumer-grade, but it consists merely of an ATV2 (streaming my library via iTunes) --> cheap optical --> Peachtree Nova (original 2009 version) and D5 speakers; the sound from that is remarkably high-quality.

 

Does suck, sorry. DIY jobs especially suck because they lack the things commercial amp designers include in an effort to make class D suck less.

[lucretius]

16 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

One mans steak is another mans hot dog. This is all subjective stuff. IMO any thing that is two channel based is a hot dog, you CAN'T replicate a live event with two speakers, not even a harmonica.
Immersive audio is steak in my book. However this thread is about less of a hassle audiophilia so I stick with my active speaker 2 channel recommendation. 
 

 

22, 32, 42 audio channels and speakers.  That's what I call the ultimate hassle!

[Jud]

Just now, GUTB said:

 

Does suck, sorry. DIY jobs especially suck because they lack the things commercial amp designers include in an effort to make class D suck less.

 

What we really enjoy in having our light conversation here is someone dogmatically dismissing a whole category of equipment.

 

At least include a few specifics so we might have something to chat about.

[wgscott]

10 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

What we really enjoy in having our light conversation here is someone dogmatically dismissing a whole category of equipment.

 

Especially since it is so out of character for this place.

 

He's been on this Jihad for awhile now.  Like most religious fanatics, he is impervious to facts and reason.  I very much doubt he could even identify the topology of the amp in a blind test.

[witchdoctor]

21 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

22, 32, 42 audio channels and speakers.  That's what I call the ultimate hassle!

14.1 channels is what I call the only 5 star way to eat steak

 

Two active speakers and a streamer is the ultimate no hassle version of steak.

 

I think computer audio in general can be more of a hassle depending on the gizmos and doo dads you use.

[lucretius]

48 minutes ago, witchdoctor said:

14.1 channels is what I call the only 5 star way to eat steak

 

Still too many speakers for me.

 

49 minutes ago, witchdoctor said:

Two active speakers and a streamer is the ultimate no hassle version of steak.

 

I think computer audio in general can be more of a hassle depending on the gizmos and doo dads you use.

 

Agreed!

[Tony Lauck]

On 10/17/2017 at 2:36 PM, GUTB said:

Active speakers suck because they use Class D amplification. Our lives would be so much cheaper, lighter and cooler if Class D didn't suck, but alas the technology just isn't there yet.

 

My Focal studio monitors use Class AB for the tweeters,  Bash for the mid range, bass and sub.

[fas42]

15 hours ago, tne said:

Bill,

You pose a very good question that many of us consider from time to time.

What metric do you propose to use for "performance"? As we endlessly discuss here on CA, there are differing thoughts on this, and I would enjoy hearing yours.

 

My metric is to be able to put on the "crappiest" recording, wind up the volume until it's realistic for the type of music being performed, and for the experience to be as involving, "immersive", and "I am there!" as it was for anyone with the actual performers - 99.99999...% of systems are nowhere near this goal, miles away usually ...

[cjf]

All it takes is a good bag of "Green" (and I don't mean money) to make even the crappiest gear to sound 10x better then it is.

 

If I were to start over again today and only had $5K to spend on a system I would go "ALL IN" on a headphone setup and call it a day.