Audio Grade Router and Switches in RMAF with SOtM

[Special Snowflake]

Just now, plissken said:

 

You have my condolences. On which part I'll leave to you. 

Yes hard to argue with hard data:

 

 

[plissken]

8 minutes ago, Special Snowflake said:

Yes hard to argue with hard data:

 

 

 

Having 20Khz hearing isn't the same as knowing what to listen for. Why don't you show me all the hard data you have on 20 year old people not liking Benchmark vs something else. 

[Special Snowflake]

4 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Having 20Khz hearing isn't the same as knowing what to listen for. Why don't you show me all the hard data you have on 20 year old people not liking Benchmark vs something else. 

This data shows a 20 year old could poke the tweeters out in their speakers if they want to hear on par with a 60 year old. 

 

Very few 20 year olds are buying separates at all. This is all Benchmark makes. That’s a dying boomer era trend. 

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, marce said:

Oliver Heaviside started it off ...

 

 

was he the guy that put bricks on his pre-amp?

[Ralf11]

sorry - couldn't resist

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Special Snowflake said:

This data shows a 20 year old could poke the tweeters out in their speakers if they want to hear on par with a 60 year old. 

 

Very few 20 year olds are buying separates at all. This is all Benchmark makes. That’s a dying boomer era trend. 

 

Since a lot of speakers will hand over duties to the tweeter in the 2500-3500 Khz range and the bulk of content is typically under 12Khz....

[plissken]

1 hour ago, Special Snowflake said:

 Very few 20 year olds are buying separates at all. This is all Benchmark makes. That’s a dying boomer era trend. 

 

Very few 20 year old's purchase much high end of anything... Here's the thing: They don't stay broke and in their early 20's forever.

[Special Snowflake]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Since a lot of speakers will hand over duties to the tweeter in the 2500-3500 Khz range and the bulk of content is typically under 12Khz....

The 60 year old’s plot is about on par with a 2 way monitor with 6.5” midwoofer and 1st order crossover, with tweeter disconnected through a 20 year olds ears. 

[Special Snowflake]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Very few 20 year old's purchase much high end of anything... Here's the thing: They don't stay broke and in their early 20's forever.

Yeah and by the time they have any money to spend, the only place you’ll find separates is at antique shops. 

[plissken]

2 hours ago, Special Snowflake said:

Yeah and by the time they have any money to spend, the only place you’ll find separates is at antique shops. 

 

Be sure to let all the players in this space know this and make sure to turn the lights off this industry on your way out.

 

[Special Snowflake]

3 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Be sure to let all the players in this space know this and make sure to turn the lights off this industry on your way out.

 

The boomers will do a fine job of turning these lights off on their way out. 

[welldone]

On 28/10/2017 at 2:52 PM, ismewor said:

Just got my TCXO router from the linear solution tonight. Wow, I was surprise by the packaging and craftsmanship of this company. Been busy and I’ll try to compare with my current router with LPS along with SOtM Trifecta. Hopefully I can get some  critical listening done over the weekend. 

It seems that it's not cheap at all. Even it's a game changer, its p/p is the most important thing.

[marce]

9 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

was he the guy that put bricks on his pre-amp?

[ismewor]

11 hours ago, welldone said:

It seems that it's not cheap at all. Even it's a game changer, its p/p is the most important thing.

They are really reasonable in pricing, i'm surprise for the quality they can charge higher, and they are at intro pricing now.

[ismewor]

18 hours ago, plissken said:

Very few 20 year old's purchase much high end of anything...

They are the people who purchase DAP and headphone for sure. and there is a huge market and some price are higher than high-end.

[plissken]

19 minutes ago, ismewor said:

They are the people who purchase DAP and headphone for sure. and they is a huge market and some price are higher than high-end.

 

Very few ≠ None at all

 

I had a high end setup when I was 17 comparatively speaking.  Agreed with you on the Headphone side of things. A lot of competition and great performing cans for not a lot of $$. 

[welldone]

10 hours ago, ismewor said:

They are really reasonable in pricing, i'm surprise for the quality they can charge higher, and they are at intro pricing now.

Can you send me pm with the intro price of those?

[Forehaven]

15 minutes ago, welldone said:

Can you send me pm with the intro price of those?

+1

[Al Jones]

On 28. oktober 2017 at 6:00 PM, Al Jones said:

TLS pricing, according to mail received October 23. Introductory prices expected to run until year's end

 

TCXO Switch (Introduction $449, Normal $549)
TCXO Router (Introduction $779, Normal $899)
OCXO Router (Introduction $999, Normal $1199)
OCXO Switch (Introduction $649, Normal $799)
 

 

[marce]

So they take a $40 switch or router and add lots of profit... with absolutely no data, data sheets anything, just a bit of blurb which makes less sense than most audiophile marketing copy.

This is what gets to me, show us some real data, wheres the EMC testing results showing the linear PSY makes a difference, wheres the signal integrity data for the clock... there is none I bet, its just another rip of product, that will only benefit a believer... In fact with the linear supply things might be worse noise wise.

For an extra $400-$900 above the basic router price I would want some cast iron confirmation that the devices is actually doing something... remember the data transmission is asynchronous and the data will be buffered... I know these are important in the real world of data transmission...

 

[ismewor]

6 hours ago, marce said:

So they take a $40 switch or router and add lots of profit... with absolutely no data, data sheets anything, just a bit of blurb which makes less sense than most audiophile marketing copy.

This is what gets to me, show us some real data, wheres the EMC testing results showing the linear PSY makes a difference, wheres the signal integrity data for the clock... there is none I bet, its just another rip of product, that will only benefit a believer... In fact with the linear supply things might be worse noise wise.

For an extra $400-$900 above the basic router price I would want some cast iron confirmation that the devices is actually doing something... remember the data transmission is asynchronous and the data will be buffered... I know these are important in the real world of data transmission...

 

Try to see if the investment will work for your situation first. Everyone is different. You might want to just use a good LPS for your own $40 router and just see if that make a different. You also need a streamer for that as well. Which streamer you currently using? and what is your current streaming solution at the moment?

[marce]

Stand alone PC with squeezebox, been there for a few years, no keyboard, mouse, just runs squeezebox and transmits digital data... and when my new house renovations are done, probably an oppo or similar everything coming off my NAS drive. Undecided on what way to go, but looking at comments and advice from several contributors on here (and not just the more objective, looking at all options from the extreme to the simple). Squeezebox  to headphones cos everything else is in storage, so it will do for now. The digital data gets to the squeezebox no problems, wireless so isolated.

When stuff is hardwired I use the same routers, with their own clock (best option as that is what the unit was designed with and its own PSU. The basic netgear router works perfectly as is so don't need to spend a few hundred dollars needlessly to improve it... And I'm not a fan of add-on clocks on wires, a clock needs to be on board, unless the equipment is designed for a distributed clock like some communication and pro-audio kit and there it is done for a reason. You can add the best clock you like on a length of wire, the signal integrity will be buggered unless the interface is carefully engineered, preferably simulated with a 3D field solver and measured... Just the smallest return path discontinuity is going to add more noise and jitter to the clock. Clocks are critical...

The manufacturers web site for these products has no tangible information though, just a few phrases to catch peoples attention such as:

Military Spec OCXO 4oz Copper PCB +/- 10ppb

4oz copper is overkill for a crystal board, more importantly is how many layers and the layout. And a Mil spec board... meaningless, is it a mil spec assembly as well as boards that is just as critical if not more so, and what is entailed in getting a mil spec board... and to what specification. 

PSU's, a well engineered/designed power delivery system is critical to any equipment's operation, SMPS's work just as well as linear and often better, plus the noise is way above the audible frequency range so can be filtered out easier...

[ismewor]

3 minutes ago, marce said:

You can add the best clock you like on a length of wire, the signal integrity will be buggered unless the interface is carefully engineered

Yes, very true so it has to be shortest possible. if that has to be done. that is why i don't believe clock outside from the unit and tap wire back in to the other unit. 

[ismewor]

8 minutes ago, marce said:

Stand alone PC with squeezebox, been there for a few years, no keyboard, mouse, just runs squeezebox and transmits digital data... and when my new house renovations are done, probably an oppo or similar everything coming off my NAS drive.

Yes, time to upgrade. I used the modded squeezebox and move up to transporter once 5 yrs ago. which is a great unit. I own a modded oppo 105 which is a great unit for streaming. 

May i ask how is your NAS setup? off the shelf or purpose build pc?

[marce]

The NAS is an off the shelf Western digital 6Tb, its main role in life is to back up my photography, but then the kids discovered its benefits. My Squeezebox stuff, is years old, basic PC cost £250 when I bought it, low power, fan never comes on, just sits there , probably been going since 2011/2012 still on windows 7 I believe, had several squeezeboxes feeding a variety of rooms, with one main system. Sold and got rid of most of my kit since then. currently refurbishing a new house where for once I have my own room... where I go I don't quite know yet, but it will be kept simple, have some rather large OB's, so it will be nice to try them in open space (4m x 8m dining/living room, small by US standards but this is UK).