firedog Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/denafrips/1.html for those who are interested in these types of DACs, looks very interesting. opus101 1 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Milt99 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I was wondering when\if someone would post a link to their review. The Terminator is one I've been trying to keep an eye on. As much as I eschew much of 6Moons philosophy, it is nice to see an audiophillia site review a piece of Chi-Fi gear. I'm on the search for a DAC. Gawd what a ball & brain buster. Link to comment
PhilR Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Certainly is one of the best looking DAC interiors out there. They should make it with a glass top! Synology DS1515+ > PS Audio P10 > Innuos Zenith Mk II running Roon Core > IsoRegen/LPS-1 > Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 > Tekton Double Impact Speakers Link to comment
firedog Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 7 hours ago, Milt99 said: As much as I eschew much of 6Moons philosophy, it is nice to see an audiophillia site review a piece of Chi-Fi gear They have gotten much better in the last year or so about pointing out equipment that gives value for the dollar and sounds as good as more expensive stuff. If I was DAC shopping, I'd be tempted to give this a try. Web site needs to have some sort 2 week or 30 day return policy, though. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
bibo01 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 In Italy the DAC models of this brand are very appreciated. How curious are you? Link to comment
tboooe Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 So does this DAC do true R2R for DSD like the Holo Spring? If so, I am very curious how they implemented it as I am still not entirely sure how Holo does it. Also, from a quick scan of the review, it says this DAC can do up to DSD256 only? 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
firedog Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 hour ago, tboooe said: So does this DAC do true R2R for DSD like the Holo Spring? If so, I am very curious how they implemented it as I am still not entirely sure how Holo does it. Also, from a quick scan of the review, it says this DAC can do up to DSD256 only? Yes, in one place I read it does DSD 512, that may not be accurate. Hard to understand from the write ups, but apparently it does does DSD in HW, not a chip. Sounds like it takes the DSD signal directly and filters it. Isn't that sort of what the Lampizator chipless DACs do with DSD? What all that means exactly, maybe someone else can explain. Here's what the manual says: Quote The Terminator is equipped with 26Bit R‐2R DAC to decode PCM data stream and 32 steps FIR analog filters hardware decoder to decode DSD data stream. These designs guaranteed the PCM format can be perfectly decoded, at the same time, the DSD format can be perfectly decoded as well. It is rare in the currently market that a R‐2R DAC can hardware decode both PCM and DSD formats. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Milt99 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 10 hours ago, tboooe said: So does this DAC do true R2R for DSD like the Holo Spring? If so, I am very curious how they implemented it as I am still not entirely sure how Holo does it. Also, from a quick scan of the review, it says this DAC can do up to DSD256 only? The Terminator takes it to whole nother level as far published specs & docs. Rather than recite the Denafrips site, etc., simply use google plus read the 6moons review. They did an excellent explanation of the design philosophy, specs, pics, & SQ. On the face of it and like was posted above, at it's price point, right now it seems an incredible value. Link to comment
juanitox Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 i don't totally trust 6moon audio for their reviews as i had some bad experience with some " golden rewards" items . but that is subjective , what is objective is 3800$ for DSD 256 do'esnt seems an incedible value for me . IFImicro DSD or chord stuff or even a 2900€ T+A dac8 with DSD512 and analog volume control are better values. PC audio /Roon + HQPLAYER / HOLO Spring 2 / / DIY AD1 SET tube amp / DIY Altec 2 way horn Speaker Link to comment
Popular Post Milt99 Posted September 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2017 Firedog, yes the Denafrips does not do 512 DSD. Corrected by tboooe, I misread the spec. By all accounts in order to get the best from the DAC 8 DSD, everything needs to be converted to DSD 512. A PC capable of running HQPlayer and doing the conversion is not a cheap endeavor plus it won't as of yet work with a linux NAA like the Rendu products. I'm not here to defend Denafrips or 6moons just trying to be neutral. Like I posted above, it's both an exciting time & a frustrating time to be DAC shopping. I really have an aversion to all of the ancillary gear that many feel are required to get the best out of the "source". Supperconductor and jventer 2 Link to comment
tboooe Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Milt99 said: Firedog, yes the Denafrips does 512 DSD. By all accounts in order to get the best from the DAC 8 DSD, everything needs to be converted to DSD 512. A PC capable of running HQPlayer and doing the conversion is not a cheap endeavor plus it won't as of yet work with a linux NAA like the Rendu products. Odd that even the website says it does up to DSD256 only. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
Milt99 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, tboooe said: Odd that even the website says it does up to DSD256 only. DUH, my mistake. 256 is correct. Thanks for the correction. I have read just about everything there is on the Terminator and DACs in general. I think I need to take a break. The numbers are melting together. Link to comment
butifull01 Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I have a schedule to provide Denafrips DAC for HI FI newbies. (group-buy) I think that Venus' spec and price are suitable for them. But there is no informations about Venus. For them, Terminator is too expensive. And Pontus seems to be not good. I want to know comparison data about Venus vs Terminator. [(ex) Venus is 70% of Terminator] bunno77 1 Speakers : Accuton 3ways 5speakers (D-25) Source : SGM 2015 EVO / SGM Extreme DAC : Trinity DACPre Amp : KX-R Twenty Power Amp : HF : NHB-108 LF : 400W Mono Block Cables : All Entreq AtlantisGrounding : 3 Olympus Tellus, 4 Poseidon, 1 Silver Tellus, 1 Atlantis Tellus 6 Atlantis Minimus, 3 Silver Minimus, 3 Gaia, All Atlantis Eartha, 60 PeakPower Conditioner : 2 Atlantis, Link to comment
Allander Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 On 2017-09-23 at 3:00 PM, Milt99 said: Firedog, yes the Denafrips does not do 512 DSD. Corrected by tboooe, I misread the spec. By all accounts in order to get the best from the DAC 8 DSD, everything needs to be converted to DSD 512. A PC capable of running HQPlayer and doing the conversion is not a cheap endeavor plus it won't as of yet work with a linux NAA like the Rendu products. I'm not here to defend Denafrips or 6moons just trying to be neutral. Like I posted above, it's both an exciting time & a frustrating time to be DAC shopping. I really have an aversion to all of the ancillary gear that many feel are required to get the best out of the "source". @Milt99 I am wondering where you have found the information re Linux -Hq Player and dsd 512. I have been chasing this issue for months using I7 6700k- switch- Micro Rendu 2.5 OS (dsd512)-Singxer Su1-i2s - Gustard X20 pro. For or the most part I can get Roon 512 and occasionally Hq player 512 but nothing consistently. Have literally tried everything under the sun. Would really appreciate some direction or confirmation if this is the case. Thank you. Link to comment
Milt99 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 There's a couple of threads here on it. I think searching on DAC 8 DSD should get you there. Sorry I can't be of more help. It's been awhile since I followed them. Link to comment
barrows Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 From the description it sounds like the Denafrips does DSD conversion similarly to how Miska's DSC-1 works, with a 32 bit element discrete FIR filter. But it does not seem to say much else in detail, being Chinese it might be just a direct balanced version of Miska's design, but without further investigation, who knows, and what additional filter elements (passives) it might use is up for grabs as well. I would be interested in seeing a much simpler, DSD only version of this, especially with an added volume control and discrete output buffer. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
guymrob Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I've a loan Ares, it doesn't playback DSD512, only up to DSD256 natively via Linux based OS (ALSA) or Windows/MAC DoP. Playing back DSD512 will resulted in loud hissing noise. Link to comment
pm325 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 On 10/3/2017 at 9:58 PM, guymrob said: Playing back DSD512 will resulted in loud hissing noise. It looks like broken synchronization at high frequency via USB input. Could you check LVDS over HDMI input with Hydra-Z/Singxer SU-1/Matrix X-spdif2? Link to comment
guymrob Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 22 hours ago, pm325 said: It looks like broken synchronization at high frequency via USB input. Could you check LVDS over HDMI input with Hydra-Z/Singxer SU-1/Matrix X-spdif2? Unfortunately I don't have a chance to the test II2/HDMI, the unit has already returned to the distributor. According to them, an Amanero based chipset will likely resolve the issue. Link to comment
Ben-M Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I just emailed Denafrips about the DSD playback limits, they confirmed in Q2 2018 they'll release a new DSP board that supports DSD512 over USB and I2s inputs. So, the Terminator DAC is officially getting DSD512. And that puts it square on my list for my DAC replacement. I'd love to have a shootout with this and the T+A DAC 8 DSD. Link to comment
Milt99 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Thanks for the news, Ben. Man, looking for a new DAC\Source. My gut tells me to go easy, go for value but the Terminator is so tempting. A great sign would be if Denafrips offers an upgrade to current owners for 512 DSD capability. I understand it may not be possible given the design but if it is, that would be a good sign for the future. Hopefully, Chris will post an in-depth review of the new Auralic G2 series to help out. Link to comment
levinsje Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I received the Terminator several weeks ago and it has been playing non-stop. It is replacing an Eastern Electric Minimax supreme dac. The Terminator has improved my digital sound so much that is approaching that of my vinyl system. It really is a game changer for me as this is the most dramatic improvement to my digital sound. The improvements are across the board but in particular the bass, imaging, and soundstage were greatly improved. My iphone real time analyzer clearly shows and extra bar of bass that was not there before. Even my non-audiophile girlfriend noticed the improvements, especially the bass. So far very pleased! Link to comment
rothosand Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 20 hours ago, Milt99 said: A great sign would be if Denafrips offers an upgrade to current owners for 512 DSD capability. That is indeed the case, according to Alvin, from Vinshine Audio (worldwide distributor of Denafrips) : "However, the dsd512 is not supported at the moment. We plan to implement it in 2nd quarter of 2018. Customer can purchase the DSP board to replace the existing one to upgrade." This is a confirmation that the Terminator has a modular design, as is also told on another forum : http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150966.40 Link to comment
Milt99 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Sigh. Going against my previous tenet that DAC Tech is in flux right now & that the prudent thing would be invest in mid-price R2R, I'm thinking that the Denafrips Terminator with DSD 512 capability is a solid price-performance-value proposition. Obviously not inexpensive but looking at the design philosophy, build quality & modularity what's not to like? Link to comment
TubeLover Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Milt99 said: Sigh. Going against my previous tenet that DAC Tech is in flux right now & that the prudent thing would be invest in mid-price R2R, I'm thinking that the Denafrips Terminator with DSD 512 capability is a solid price-performance-value proposition. Obviously not inexpensive but looking at the design philosophy, build quality & modularity what's not to like? I'm in much the same place as you, and considering it for the same reasons. JC Link to comment
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