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SMPS and grounding


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I tried a crude method to begin with, since I don’t have the right terminations.

 

I stripped wire and wrapped it around both the ground pin of the meanwell ac cord and the dc barrel that plugs into my lps1.

 

interesting result: the meanwell’s green led blinked and lps 1 was not sent juice.  

 

I removed the wire and then it fired up.

 

Next, while hot, I carefully wrapped the shunt wire around the ground pin again.  That was tolerated.

 

hmmmmm.

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48 minutes ago, sockpit said:

I tried a crude method to begin with, since I don’t have the right terminations.

 

I stripped wire and wrapped it around both the ground pin of the meanwell ac cord and the dc barrel that plugs into my lps1.

 

interesting result: the meanwell’s green led blinked and lps 1 was not sent juice.  

 

I removed the wire and then it fired up.

 

Next, while hot, I carefully wrapped the shunt wire around the ground pin again.  That was tolerated.

 

hmmmmm.

 

Interesting. You experienced the same thing I reported here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?do=findComment&comment=775868

 

 

Not sure what is going on.

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25 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Interesting. You experienced the same thing I reported here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37034-smps-and-grounding/?do=findComment&comment=775868

 

 

Not sure what is going on.

Thanks. Yes, it seems to be the same mystery.  Brick blinked, lps1 did not boot or light up at all.

 

until I puledl the wire off.  Then rewinding it while plugged in (I know, a little risky) worked fine-that is to say the lps1 continued working fine.  Sounds great, but it did before, too.

 

may just wait until Alex C. starts selling the $15 brick that is correctly grounded . . .

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 06/02/2018 at 5:38 AM, Superdad said:

After the first 250 LPS-1.2 orders are shipped, we will begin offering our 7.5V/4.8A/36W adapter separately for $15 to those who want one.

 

Hi Alex, will this be offered soon-ish?

 

Or will you need a vacation first, after the success of the first 250 shipped LPS-1.2's ?

 

Cheers

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30 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Hi Alex, will this be offered soon-ish?

Or will you need a vacation first, after the success of the first 250 shipped LPS-1.2's ?

 

Have put it on my calendar to try to get to within the next 10 days.  Need to finish this week's shipments of LPS-1.2s--the very last of the first 250--and to make sure that all parts are tracked down for the next batch for March.  Priorities!  :D

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Have put it on my calendar to try to get to within the next 10 days.  Need to finish this week's shipments of LPS-1.2s--the very last of the first 250--and to make sure that all parts are tracked down for the next batch for March.  Priorities!  :D

 

Thanks Alex. I saw a photo of the PSU and I think I saw the 'C-tick' safety approval for use in Australia.

 

Is that the same PSU that your shipping at the moment (and will ship separately later)?

 

 

rcm_mark.thumb.jpg.926a975c14385dc172d2784c61846749.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 27/02/2018 at 12:18 PM, Superdad said:

 

Have put it on my calendar to try to get to within the next 10 days.  Need to finish this week's shipments of LPS-1.2s--the very last of the first 250--and to make sure that all parts are tracked down for the next batch for March.  Priorities!  :D

 

Hi Alex, have you got a revised ETA / target date? No problem if it's slipped, given your other higher priorities.

 

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On 3/1/2018 at 5:19 PM, octaviars said:

Modded my Netgear GS108 today, easy to connect ground to the -0V inside the switch. From the threaded insert a ground cable will go to the outlet feeding my PSU that supplies the 12Vdc to the switch.

 

DSC_0040.thumb.JPG.bda9464384fe7d489f0747b70cd77aa4.JPG

 

DSC_0041.thumb.JPG.f8ec75478a9d51726b81c65558b7ed46.JPG

 

I got the Netgear FS108 and want to ask here how to make the connection as octaviars did.
Is it to make connection like this picture below ? 
On the GS108 it look like to connections. 1 to the screw on board and 1 also to the chassis. 
Is the one in red enough and correct ? 

DSC_0384.JPG

Best Regards

 

Buch

 

"If there's no music up in heaven, then what's it for?" (Arcade Fire)

Ipad remote control > Etherregen > Auraliti PK90 > USB HDD > IsoRegen > Aavik U-300 > Raidho X-3 Ceramic Speakers

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20 minutes ago, buch73 said:

On the GS108 it look like to connections. 1 to the screw on board and 1 also to the chassis. 

 

You dont need to do it like I did to get the right result all you need is to do the connection on the -0V on the DC barrel and some how connect that to the AC ground from your feeding outlet.

 

I just made it easy for me and connected both the -0V and the chassi to the insert so I got a easy and good looking place to connect the ground cable that goes to my AC ground. 

Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, 
Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Uptone etherREGEN -> dCS Network Bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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Ah, of course. I got it. 

Sorry and thanks :)

 

Best Regards

 

Buch

 

"If there's no music up in heaven, then what's it for?" (Arcade Fire)

Ipad remote control > Etherregen > Auraliti PK90 > USB HDD > IsoRegen > Aavik U-300 > Raidho X-3 Ceramic Speakers

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Question:  following the guidance regarding SMPS here, how should the Chromecast Audio, when connected via Ethernet, be handled?   It doesn't accept a normal external power supply.  Notice the Ethernet port built into the power supply itself.  I've attached some pictures.

 

Fineprint:  My primary listening is via a Dante system; Chromecast Audio (connected to DAC via Toslink) is for guests and wife because using native mobile apps is most convenient.  But it's still plugged into the system so I want to optimize SMPS noise...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ccu_full.jpg

ccu_angle.jpg

cc_fineprint.png

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On 3/17/2018 at 6:02 PM, jaynyc said:

Question:  following the guidance regarding SMPS here, how should the Chromecast Audio, when connected via Ethernet, be handled?   It doesn't accept a normal external power supply.  Notice the Ethernet port built into the power supply itself.  I've attached some pictures.

 

Fineprint:  My primary listening is via a Dante system; Chromecast Audio (connected to DAC via Toslink) is for guests and wife because using native mobile apps is most convenient.  But it's still plugged into the system so I want to optimize SMPS noise...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ccu_full.jpg

ccu_angle.jpg

cc_fineprint.png

Since the chromecast is connected via optical to the DAC there can be no leakage current through that connection so you are fine, you don't have to worry about grounding its SMPS.

 

John S.

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On 27/02/2018 at 1:18 AM, Superdad said:

 

Have put it on my calendar to try to get to within the next 10 days.  Need to finish this week's shipments of LPS-1.2s--the very last of the first 250--and to make sure that all parts are tracked down for the next batch for March.  Priorities!  :D

 

Hi Alex

 

Will you be selling a UK version???

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9 hours ago, jrd1975 said:

Will you be selling a UK version???

 

The new internally-shunted, 7.5V/4.8A/36W charger which ships with every UltraCap LPS-1.2 unit is world-voltage compatible (from 100V all the way to 240V, 50/60Hz).

It takes a standard detachable IEC320-C14 AC mains cord. When we ship this charger will the LPS-1.2 we include a 45cm long AC cord with a USA plug.  For a variety of reasons (logistics, availability, and weight/bulk of longer cords--the only kind available with overseas plugs) we do not include or offer AC cords with UK, Schuko, or Australian plugs.  The cord to the charger does not matter, and most everyone has a spare "computer/audio" AC mains cord with a local plug laying about.

 

I apologize for not yet having the UpTone-branded SMPS up for sale on our site.  Part of it has to do with setting up reasonable shipping charges for overseas.  We will sell these for $15 (just enough to cover our costs, handling, PayPal/CC fee, and the pouch to ship in), but First Class Mail (in a padded pouch) of the 11 ounce package is $22 to all overseas destinations.  And Priority Mail (in a USPS Flat Rate mailer is $34).  I know it seems crazy, but even with my commercial rate pricing for our volume business, this is what we pay to ship.

(I am always amazed when I can get small items shipped from China, via what they call E-packet, for next to nothing.  But then I have read that the Chinese government subsidizes their postal system in a big way.)

 

Anyway, I am sure I'll put this unit up on the site soon.  One nice thing is that it does not cost anything extra to ship if bought at the same time as one of our other main products.  We can easily squeeze it into the Flat Rate package of an UltraCap LPS.1.2 or ISO REGEN. So that is the best way to get one without paying any silly postage just for it.:D

 

5ab28def5b071_UpTone4.8Acharger.thumb.JPG.d6662aeb40d0a4ad0e81e2694929709c.JPG

 

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@Superdad Great news re the charger.

 

One question.  For those of us in the UK (or Europe), are there any plans to sell the new charger via VortexBox?  Or will this one be direct from the US only?

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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4 minutes ago, Confused said:

Great news re the charger.

One question.  For those of us in the UK (or Europe), are there any plans to sell the new charger via VortexBox?  Or will this one be direct from the US only?

 

Good idea! I just made a note to myself to ask Martin (VortexBoxUK/Audiostore) if he would like us to include a half-dozen extra chargers in with his next dozen shipment of UltraCap LPS-1.2 kits at the end of the month.

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1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Good idea! I just made a note to myself to ask Martin (VortexBoxUK/Audiostore) if he would like us to include a half-dozen extra chargers in with his next dozen shipment of UltraCap LPS-1.2 kits at the end of the month.

If he says yes, then he can consider at least one sold to me!

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

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On 13/12/2017 at 3:48 PM, JohnSwenson said:

The leakage from the un-grounded Mean Well may wind up going through something else, it depends where the DAC goes. If it has an on board headphone amp and you just use headphone, then the leakage can't get out of the DAC

 

Hi John

 

Just on the quote above, regarding using a DAC with onboard headphone amp.

 

When you say the leakage can't get out, say BOTH the DAC and computer USB source are powered by SMPS's, then even if using headphones, can't you still have leakage between these 2 SMPS's and therefore you can have RF pickup by the USB cable in between, due to leakage between the 2 power supplies?

 

So even though the leakage can't get out of the DAC as you say, you can have RF pickup and/or radiated? Which may affect SQ if the DAC is sensitive to RF interference (like the analogue section)?

 

Or is leakage absolutely no concern when using a DAC with onboard headphone amp and headphones, even if DAC AND USB audio source are SMPS powered?

 

We obviously all know how to block leakage from getting into the DAC by now sinceyou've covered how to do this many many times - but I'm just trying to understand the leakage mechanisms with a DAC with onboard headphone amp used with headphones.

 

Cheers!

 

 

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Yes, even with a headphone amp DAC you CAN have a leakage loops forming from the computer's and the DAC's power supplies. This can  affect the SQ of the DAC, it can affect the local clock in the DAC, the DAC chips and the analog stage of the DAC. In addition you are right, leakage going over the connection from computer to DAC (USB, Ethernet, S/PDIF, I2S) (but not optical!) can radiate from the cable and get picked up by other equipment, but this is MUCH less likely to happen with a DAC with builtin headphone amp since there are no line level interconnects involved. It still can get picked up by the headphone cable, but this is probably far less of an issue than the usual audio interconnect.

 

John S.

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5 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Yes, even with a headphone amp DAC you CAN have a leakage loops forming from the computer's and the DAC's power supplies. This can  affect the SQ of the DAC, it can affect the local clock in the DAC, the DAC chips and the analog stage of the DAC. In addition you are right, leakage going over the connection from computer to DAC (USB, Ethernet, S/PDIF, I2S) (but not optical!) can radiate from the cable and get picked up by other equipment, but this is MUCH less likely to happen with a DAC with builtin headphone amp since there are no line level interconnects involved. It still can get picked up by the headphone cable, but this is probably far less of an issue than the usual audio interconnect.

 

John S.

 

Cheers John !

 

So why are the line level interconnects the culprits? Because they are analogue?  And therefore with leakage going through these line level interconnects, you get increased RF pickup that directly affects SQ?

 

I'm guessing this is where your DIY RCA interconnects shielding method can really help? This more effective shielding method means less RF pickup by analogue interconnects?

 

I'm just trying to loop (pun intended) all your teachings together.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Cheers John !

 

So why are the line level interconnects the culprits? Because they are analogue?  And therefore with leakage going through these line level interconnects, you get increased RF pickup that directly affects SQ?

 

I'm guessing this is where your DIY RCA interconnects shielding method can really help? This more effective shielding method means less RF pickup by analogue interconnects?

 

I'm just trying to loop (pun intended) all your teachings together.

 

 

Actually it is not RF, leakage current is primarily line frequency harmonics (60, 120, 180 etc) which fall directly in the audio range. Standard shielding is hardly effective at all at these frequencies, my shielding techniques radically improve this.

 

Standard audio line interconnects run at a high impedance which make it much easier for this leakage radiation to be picked up. A headphone cable is a MUCH lower impedance system which picks up a lot less of this.

 

Leakage at the DAC itself is much worse because it can modulate the phase noise of the clock, this just doesn't show up as some low frequency noise, it modulates everything coming out of the DAC. So leakage current through the DAC is priority number one, everything else is way down on the hit list.

 

John S.

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4 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Actually it is not RF, leakage current is primarily line frequency harmonics (60, 120, 180 etc) which fall directly in the audio range. Standard shielding is hardly effective at all at these frequencies, my shielding techniques radically improve this.

 

Standard audio line interconnects run at a high impedance which make it much easier for this leakage radiation to be picked up. A headphone cable is a MUCH lower impedance system which picks up a lot less of this.

 

Leakage at the DAC itself is much worse because it can modulate the phase noise of the clock, this just doesn't show up as some low frequency noise, it modulates everything coming out of the DAC. So leakage current through the DAC is priority number one, everything else is way down on the hit list.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John, crystal (clock) clear now ! 

 

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