SMPS and grounding

[One and a half]

5 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Garry sure did nail your location !

It seems they are more than a bit behind the times in your country as far as electrical safety goes.

, not only is there no earth to the outlets, the colours are random, and don't look large enough, although the install looks recent within the last 3 years or less.. There's big fat F to the bozo who wired that and a bigger F for those that put the power on. That green and yellow cable must be really expensive to buy?!

If the house is rented, then the landlord needs to make the wiring safe at their expense. Oh dear, very unsafe. @Cornan, there's your floating AC supply.

[sandyk]

34 minutes ago, One and a half said:

, not only is there no earth to the outlets, the colours are random, and don't look large enough, although the install looks recent within the last 3 years or less.. There's big fat F to the bozo who wired that and a bigger F for those that put the power on. That green and yellow cable must be really expensive to buy?!

If the house is rented, then the landlord needs to make the wiring safe at their expense. Oh dear, very unsafe. @Cornan, there's your floating AC supply.

 

 Perhaps a potential export market opportunity ?

 The stripes will make the protection faster  !

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, thyname said:

That’s because this is public site and someone probably grabbed it before you.

 

The code was taken from here:

 

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

@Cornan, there's your floating AC supply

 

Even one step too floating for me! ? I'll guess it is wise to get a 2-pole RCD/GFCI at the wall outlet and get a professional electrician to look at the grounding. All those multi-colour wired makes me dizzy! ?

[charlesphoto]

Okay, we're way off topic here but really digging Roon and Tidal (both started free trial tonight). I was worried about playing to my old Naim Unitiqute, but just went with a toslink from the Mac Pro (which is running the Core) to the UQ and sounds fine. Of course I'll be doing lots of other things at the same time with the Mac (LR, PS Word etc), but just in the office. Think I'll stick with it for now, up the ram from 16 to 32 and call it a day. Able to lose a set of FMC's and iFi's as well as a Meicord Opal ethernet cable. Off to the new Symphonic site! 

[beautiful music]

7 hours ago, One and a half said:

, not only is there no earth to the outlets, the colours are random, and don't look large enough, although the install looks recent within the last 3 years or less.. There's big fat F to the bozo who wired that and a bigger F for those that put the power on. That green and yellow cable must be really expensive to buy?!

If the house is rented, then the landlord needs to make the wiring safe at their expense. Oh dear, very unsafe. @Cornan, there's your floating AC supply.

I think you know my country than me .

 

So what is your advice in this regard, i'm now afraid from electricity

 

@sandyk any advice and help

 

And did you think that the tingling will affect in sound wise or not?

[sandyk]

9 hours ago, beautiful music said:

I think you know my country than me .

 

So what is your advice in this regard, i'm now afraid from electricity

 

@sandyk any advice and help

 

And did you think that the tingling will affect in sound wise or not?

 

 I am far removed from an expert in this area.

One and a half ( Garry) is the guy you need this assistance from, as he is highly qualified in this area.

[Cornan]

19 hours ago, beautiful music said:

And did you think that the tingling will affect in sound wise or not?

 

We can assume that your lack sufficient grounding. Getting the grounding optimal is one of the key elements to good SQ. The safety ground connection should be present, but as short as possible.

So yes it will most likely affects the SQ, but also keep you safe.

[beautiful music]

On ١٠‏/١‏/٢٠١٨ at 2:06 PM, beautiful music said:

I think you know my country than me .

 

So what is your advice in this regard, i'm now afraid from electricity

 

@sandyk any advice and help

 

And did you think that the tingling will affect in sound wise or not?

@One and a half Your advice and help will be appreciated.

[Energy]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

We can assume that your lack sufficient grounding. Getting the grounding optimal is one of the key elements to good SQ. The safety ground connection should be present, but as short as possible.

So yes it will most likely affects the SQ, but also keep you safe.

 

I’ve always wondered but why is grounding/earth so beneficial to obtaining good sound quality?

 

is it mainly to offer stray currents a way out so it does not get regulated within the system?

 

i do understand grounding for shielding purposes but that’s about the limit of my knowledge. 

[BigGuy]

4 minutes ago, Energy said:

 

I’ve always wondered but why is grounding/earth so beneficial to obtaining good sound quality?

 

is it mainly to offer stray currents a way out so it does not get regulated within the system?

 

i do understand grounding for shielding purposes but that’s about the limit of my knowledge. 

I am in no way an expert but you may find this article helpful as a basic starting point...

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/264400-28-poor-electrical-ground
 

Be safe!

[Cornan]

16 minutes ago, Energy said:

 

I’ve always wondered but why is grounding/earth so beneficial to obtaining good sound quality?

 

is it mainly to offer stray currents a way out so it does not get regulated within the system?

 

i do understand grounding for shielding purposes but that’s about the limit of my knowledge. 

 

Well, you can say that grounding can both give and take away. Too much grounding is not good for SQ either since it will introduce "noises" (of various kinds). Therefore I would say that grounding/earth or 0v reference should be in minimal quantity but maximum quality (both in material, construction & planning) to be optimal! In most cases you want to isolate grounds in an audio inviroment, but you still want grounding to shunt the internal and external "noises" to the preferred location. Away from your setup...or rather back to where it came from.  

[R1200CL]

Here is a way to waste money on grounding ?

http://www.nordost.com/qrt/qbase-ac-distribution.php

 

...a tiny lift in the earth impedance......

 

 

[sandyk]

26 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Here is a way to waste money on grounding ?

http://www.nordost.com/qrt/qbase-ac-distribution.php

 

...a tiny lift in the earth impedance......

 

 

 

 I would certainly expect this product to outperform a typical Bunnings hardware store product. Cheap power boards have a tendency to go high resistance due to the contacts of the sockets losing tension after repeated insertions.

 

 Attached is an enhanced photo of the Australian version.

Click on the image to obtain a larger image.

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Here is a way to waste money on grounding ?

http://www.nordost.com/qrt/qbase-ac-distribution.php

 

...a tiny lift in the earth impedance......

 

 

 

I would expect the Nordost QBASE to have a great impact on SQ. A very good and well constructed choise actually. If you have the money quite a few people have reported great results connecting the ground screw to a Nordost QKORE http://www.nordost.com/qrt/qkore-ground-unit.php or a Entreq Silver Minimus. If you beleive grounding boxes is fairy dust think of them as a JSGT on steroids (same same but different)! ?

[Cornan]

Since this is a SMPS thread I hope it is OK to post this question.

 

Have someone by any chance tried the Silent Switcher?

 

https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/kits/products/linear-audio-silent-switcher

 

I am kind of interested to know if this could be a good option for the GI output powered by a 5v powerbank (or Gophert csp-3205II floating SMPS 6.7v via DC Y-split with LT3045s on the other leg)? This is a floating SMPS according to the maker and looks pretty interesting to these eyes.

[JohnSwenson]

This is a rather useful board, done well. (a modern version would use LT3045s). Note that there is no isolation, the input ground is connected to the output ground, so if you are powering this from a SMPS the leakage from that will go right through this. When the designer says it is isolated from mains noise he means IF you power it from a battery. Powering from an SMPS does not block the leakage from the SMPS.

 

John S.

[Cornan]

39 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

This is a rather useful board, done well. (a modern version would use LT3045s). Note that there is no isolation, the input ground is connected to the output ground, so if you are powering this from a SMPS the leakage from that will go right through this. When the designer says it is isolated from mains noise he means IF you power it from a battery. Powering from an SMPS does not block the leakage from the SMPS.

 

John S.

 

Thanks a lot for your input John! ? I realized that it was not floating as well after looking at the YouTube video clip, but it was too late to edit my post. Anyway I was planning to use it with a powerbank unconnected from the AC mains. Since I am using LT3045s everywhere else in my system, do you think I will be better off using LT3045s in series than using the Silent Switcher?

[gstew]

16 hours ago, Cornan said:

Since this is a SMPS thread I hope it is OK to post this question.

 

Have someone by any chance tried the Silent Switcher?

 

https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/kits/products/linear-audio-silent-switcher

 

I am kind of interested to know if this could be a good option for the GI output powered by a 5v powerbank (or Gophert csp-3205II floating SMPS 6.7v via DC Y-split with LT3045s on the other leg)? This is a floating SMPS according to the maker and looks pretty interesting to these eyes.

Cornan,

 

I bought a couple of these from the initial KickStarter. I've used one to provide the +-15v to a Dial Audio Raspberry Pi DAC (one of my 3 favorites of that genre): https://dial-audio.jimdo.com/

 

My thoughts... meh. It works and is not bad, at least powered by an inexpensive 5v cell-phone / R-Pi SMPS adapter. It was noticeably better powered by a good linear power supply and even better powered by an LPS-1 (energized by a linear supply). But a pair of small shunt regulators (like simplified Salas) powered by an above-average linear power supply (oversized R-Core transformer, selected soft-recovery diodes, +-47000uF Jensen 4-Pole caps) provided more music... more dynamic, stronger & better defined bass, better definition top to bottom, sweeter mids-highs.

 

Mine will get relegated to bench supplies and test setups.

 

I also tried the 5V output powering an Allo.com Kali I2S reclocker under the Dial Audio DAC...also a meh, compared to a Acko previous-generation AKR75 (ADM715x-based) regulator powered either by the linear PS or LPS-1.

 

Nothing obviously wrong with it, but IMHO, I didn't get any magic.

 

YMMV.

Greg in Mississippi

 

P.S. BTW, an SMPS is a switch-mode power supply... something intended to be fed AC and produce a DC output. The Silent Switcher uses switching DC-DC  converters, devices intended to be fed DC and produce a different DC voltage. Entirely different. They can be used with each other and some SMPS's include switching DC-DC converters to produce final output voltages, but they are not interchangeable things.

[Cornan]

7 hours ago, gstew said:

Cornan,

 

I bought a couple of these from the initial KickStarter. I've used one to provide the +-15v to a Dial Audio Raspberry Pi DAC (one of my 3 favorites of that genre): https://dial-audio.jimdo.com/

 

My thoughts... meh. It works and is not bad, at least powered by an inexpensive 5v cell-phone / R-Pi SMPS adapter. It was noticeably better powered by a good linear power supply and even better powered by an LPS-1 (energized by a linear supply). But a pair of small shunt regulators (like simplified Salas) powered by an above-average linear power supply (oversized R-Core transformer, selected soft-recovery diodes, +-47000uF Jensen 4-Pole caps) provided more music... more dynamic, stronger & better defined bass, better definition top to bottom, sweeter mids-highs.

 

Mine will get relegated to bench supplies and test setups.

 

I also tried the 5V output powering an Allo.com Kali I2S reclocker under the Dial Audio DAC...also a meh, compared to a Acko previous-generation AKR75 (ADM715x-based) regulator powered either by the linear PS or LPS-1.

 

Nothing obviously wrong with it, but IMHO, I didn't get any magic.

 

YMMV.

Greg in Mississippi

 

P.S. BTW, an SMPS is a switch-mode power supply... something intended to be fed AC and produce a DC output. The Silent Switcher uses switching DC-DC  converters, devices intended to be fed DC and produce a different DC voltage. Entirely different. They can be used with each other and some SMPS's include switching DC-DC converters to produce final output voltages, but they are not interchangeable things.

 

Great and very useful reply for me. Thanks a million Greg! ?

 

I think I will pass using it powering my GI output and go for LT3045 as planned earlier, but powered by Gophert csp-3205II. I might order it anyway when the updated boards (under construction) have been released. It is still a quite useful board for two voltage sources that might come in handy some day.

 

Thanks for the Dual Audio link as well. Even if I am not looking for a DAC at the moment this one surely goes directly into my collection of interesting purchases (that works with Silent Switcher supplying a Pi3 as well).

 

BTW. I have got my two 3A Stammheim's single ps LT3045 boards the other day. I will have some time all alone later today and have the chance to try one of the single ps out between Gophert csp-3205II (floating SMPS) and Brooklyn DAC. Will be fun to see how that turns out! ?

 

[gstew]

8 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Great and very useful reply for me. Thanks a million Greg! ?

 

I think I will pass using it powering my GI output and go for LT3045 as planned earlier, but powered by Gophert csp-3205II. I might order it anyway when the updated boards (under construction) have been released. It is still a quite useful board for two voltage sources that might come in handy some day.

 

Thanks for the Dual Audio link as well. Even if I am not looking for a DAC at the moment this one surely goes directly into my collection of interesting purchases (that works with Silent Switcher supplying a Pi3 as well).

 

BTW. I have got my two 3A Stammheim's single ps LT3045 boards the other day. I will have some time all alone later today and have the chance to try one of the single ps out between Gophert csp-3205II (floating SMPS) and Brooklyn DAC. Will be fun to see how that turns out! ?

 

Cornan,

 

Very welcome. Very curious on how Michael's regs work for you. Do remember they take some time to break-in... my experience is that circuits with ceramic caps take about 3 weeks of constant running to finally settle. I have one of Michael's dual-boards powering my SDTrans384 SD Card player. Its been running about 2 1/2 weeks now and starting to sound good... at 1/2 week I put the previous supply (a dual 4||LT3042 board from DIYAudio poster OPC) back in and slightly preferred that. Now I suspect it'd be the other way around (though not by a huge difference... both the LT3042 and LT3045 are great regulators. BUT the in-line ballast resistance of the LT3045 setup is 1/2 of that on the LT3042 setup, so a little less reduction in the 'goodness' of the regulators when paralleled). I power both of these with 2 LPS-1s with each powering 1 side of the dual board. 

 

I only have Michael's dual boards... he didn't have the 6||LT3045 boards when I ordered them. BUT for low-level digital electronics, the 2 LPS-1s into a dual paralleled LT304x regulator board is the best I've tried. One would need current-matched LPS-1s to do that into the 6||LT3045.

 

Pix of my build attached. I used different caps than Michael's BOM... I wanted to use the same ones as on OPC's BOM for his boards as I knew they worked well in the setups where I've used them. I also added a couple at the output to make setups more like each other. AND I used fixed resistors instead of the adjustable pots... again to make the two different implementations more like each other so I can get a better feel for the basic differences between 2x4||LT3042 and the 2x3||LT305 boards.

 

Later!

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

P.S. I added a couple of pics of OPC's 2x4||LT3042 boards for comparison.

 

Then the other boards in the build picture are alternative  reg boards from OPC for powering ES9028/9038/9038 DACs' AVCC rails. Working on implementations of a couple of those. Gotta love building SMD boards!

 

[Cornan]

14 minutes ago, gstew said:

Cornan,

 

Very welcome. Very curious on how Michael's regs work for you. Do remember they take some time to break-in... my experience is that circuits with ceramic caps take about 3 weeks of constant running to finally settle. I have one of Michael's dual-boards powering my SDTrans384 SD Card player. Its been running about 2 1/2 weeks now and starting to sound good... at 1/2 week I put the previous supply (a dual 4||LT3042 board from DIYAudio poster OPC) back in and slightly preferred that. Now I suspect it'd be the other way around (though not by a huge difference... both the LT3042 and LT3045 are great regulators. BUT the in-line ballast resistance of the LT3045 setup is 1/2 of that on the LT3042 setup, so a little less reduction in the 'goodness' of the regulators when paralleled). I power both of these with 2 LPS-1s with each powering 1 side of the dual board. 

 

I only have Michael's dual boards... he didn't have the 6||LT3045 boards when I ordered them. BUT for low-level digital electronics, the 2 LPS-1s into a dual paralleled LT304x regulator board is the best I've tried. One would need current-matched LPS-1s to do that into the 6||LT3045.

 

Pix of my build attached. I used different caps than Michael's BOM... I wanted to use the same ones as on OPC's BOM for his boards as I knew they worked well in the setups where I've used them. I also added a couple at the output to make setups more like each other. AND I used fixed resistors instead of the adjustable pots... again to make the two different implementations more like each other so I can get a better feel for the basic differences between 2x4||LT3042 and the 2x3||LT305 boards.

 

Later!

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

P.S. I added a couple of pics of OPC's 2x4||LT3042 boards for comparison.

 

Then the other boards in the build picture are alternative  reg boards from OPC for powering ES9028/9038/9038 DACs' AVCC rails. Working on implementations of a couple of those. Gotta love building SMD boards!

 

 

Thanks Greg! ?

 

I got to try one of Michael's single ps today, being all alone for a couple of hours. I have recently posted my very positive initial impressions on my thread:

 

 

First off this initial listening was done using my new Gibson Les Paul 8 active monitors. Secondly the comparence is to Brooklyn DACs internal grounded SMPS (but earlier external PSUs have not passed the test).

 

I am now sitting in my chair listening to my Fostex TH900 that I have used for a long time. The sound I get is truly great, but I can hear a slight fog to the HF (not heard via speakers) which I assume will either dissapear with burn-in or a JSGT on Gophert csp-3205II which I will try another day (my time alone have run out). Still, I love what Michael's single ps have done to my Brooklyn DAC. I feel very drawn into the music. The sound landscape have become dynamicly deeper and blacker overall. The high frequencies have a beautiful shine to it all that makes this combo to a definate keeper in my book.

 

Next up will be to try the single ps between my Voltcraft FPS-1134 floating LPS and my main router. Since I play Tidal music only (well, sometimes Spotify Connect or cloud saved music when I can't find it on Tidal) the router end is very important in my setup.

 

You make  make really nice builds Greg! ? I wish I could hot wire your brain to mine and just download all the great info you've got hiding inside there. Then I would surely love to build SMD boards too! Until I've learned how-to I am best off buying it from liable sources! ? 

 

Micael

 

 

 

 

[Cornan]

@gstew

I just want to report back that as I suspected the JSGT between the Gophert csp-3205II and my star-earth receptacle on my PSD reduced the slight HF fog I was hearing with Michael's single ps through my Fostex TH900. Based on own experience this will be even better if I connect it to my Entreq Minimus, but it is now too late here to give it a try. My youngest is sleeping and I do not want to wake him up. 

Anyhow, in my experience the LT3045s gets better by burn-in, but no huge difference. Same applies to Michael's single ps. It sounds great out of the box, but I am expecting it to shine a little brighter in a little while.

 

[gstew]

On 1/12/2018 at 6:30 PM, gstew said:

Cornan,

 

I bought a couple of these from the initial KickStarter. I've used one to provide the +-15v to a Dial Audio Raspberry Pi DAC (one of my 3 favorites of that genre): https://dial-audio.jimdo.com/

 

<SNIP>

 

Cornan,

 

I'd forgotten I'd posted this about the Silent Switchers awhile back... it doesn't add much, but just shows I have sweetened on them over time.

 

Later!

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

On 9/3/2017 at 12:25 PM, gstew said:

hfxrzw,

 

Curious what you're powering it with.

 

A bit off-topic... I've got a couple here and have used one to power the +-15V side of a Dial Audio R-Pi DAC. It was ok with the recommended phone charger, a bit better with an iFi iPower 5V, and a bit more better powered from an LPS-1 set to 7V.  BUT using a +-pair of some small shunt regulators (sorta like simplified Salas) powered by a hefty AC-connected linear supply was definitely a step up.

 

I haven't tried the 3.3V-5V-6.3V output as yet, I'll have to do that and see how it compares to my other options for things like powering an RPi or an RPi DAC.

 

Jesus, IF you'd like to try one, I can lend you one for awhile. 

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

P.S. Ted, that lend offer goes for you too, if you are interested. BUT I'm not opening it up to the world at large. sorry!

[Adyc]

Is it this switch I can use JSGT DC cable to shunt out high impedance noise coming out from the network?

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000BVYT3/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3L684QNZP40Q3&colid=2AHEGCYV5BU00&psc=1