SMPS and grounding

[Cornan]

Just now, ted_b said:

Bu Cornan, what about being grounded is better in silver than copper?  These aren't sq issues, they are grounded vs not grounded, right?

 

*Haha* Think of it as electrical conductivity. The rest is up to your own ears to decide if it is bull or not! ?

[tboooe]

53 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Sorry Cornan, but while I appreciate your enthusiasm and the pleasure you get in doing tweaky things, I am going to call BULL on the notion that silver wires improve the ground-shunt of an SMPS.  That is just a bridge too far.

 

 

--Alex C.

 

I've never met a cheap tweak I wasnt willing to try no matter how far out it may seem.  This will not be the first nor the last time I waste money on this whacky hobby.   

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, tboooe said:

I've never met a cheap tweak I wasnt willing to try no matter how far out it may seem.  This will not be the first nor the last time I waste money on this whacky hobby.   

 

Welcome to the club! ? Thinking about it. I am still not a part of any clubs here at CA. If there where a whacky audio club I would certainly join it! ?

[tboooe]

2 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

If there where a whacky audio club I would certainly join it! ?

I say we start one but members who have only wasted over $5,000 on useless tweaks are allowed in.  I would be a member several times over!

[Cornan]

13 minutes ago, tboooe said:

I say we start one but members who have only wasted over $5,000 on useless tweaks are allowed in.  I would be a member several times over!

 

A qualified whacky audio club for true hifi neards! Me like! I beleive I forfill the requirements with bravur! ?

[tboooe]

3 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

A qualified whacky audio club for true hifi neards! Me like! I beleive I forfill the requirements with bravur! ?

It would be funny to hear about some of the whacky things we have tried in pursuit of audio nirvana.

[Superdad]

I love you guys...

[tboooe]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I love you guys...

I can say with utmost certainty that the IR was NOT a waste of money!!!!!!  One my best audio purchases ever!!!  Now whats the next Uptone product I can buy!  Its almost xmas you know. 

[BigGuy]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

JSGT= John Swenson Ground Tweak (DC- output grounding)

JSSG= John Swenson Shield Ground (cable Faraday cage)

 

?

Thanks as always!

[Cornan]

9 minutes ago, tboooe said:

It would be funny to hear about some of the whacky things we have tried in pursuit of audio nirvana.

 

I would love it! ? 

[Cornan]

32 minutes ago, tboooe said:

I can say with utmost certainty that the IR was NOT a waste of money!!!!!!  One my best audio purchases ever!!!  Now whats the next Uptone product I can buy!  Its almost xmas you know. 

 

You could wish for a Uptone Audio USB to Spdif board between ISO Regen and DAC! ?? I recently got the Luckit BluWave board and the combo with IR/USPCB are noting less than magical! ?

[rickca]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

I really don't want John's based-on-engineering mod to get too mixed up in hoofy-spoofy stuff.

That's a new one.  Must be something technical and over my head.

[MikeyFresh]

In my video system I run short of available AC receptacles.

 

Which is the better approach in adding more ground shunts?

•  a so-called hydra JSGT with more than one device connected to the same AC plug, or
• A 3 for 1 AC adapter allowing one outlet to connect 3 JSGT equipped AC plugs

I'm thinking an outlet adapter like this one below is maybe easiest and most flexible to use?

 

[charlesphoto]

I’d say you can’t go wrong either way. I use both hydras and one of those three prong adapters in my office - two iFi’s and the ground plug into it and the Unitiqute into the other socket. Hydra’s are fine if you don’t have the room or don’t want to introduce a power strip or adapters if you don’t have to. Individual’s better if moving things around, though leaving a bare shunt not on a hydra not a problem. 

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

In my video system I run short of available AC receptacles.

 

Which is the better approach in adding more ground shunts?

•  a so-called hydra JSGT with more than one device connected to the same AC plug, or
• A 3 for 1 AC adapter allowing one outlet to connect 3 JSGT equipped AC plugs

I'm thinking an outlet adapter like this one below is maybe easiest and most flexible to use?

 

 

 

 

Not sure that any of them would give a different result. I would personally choose the 3 to 1 AC adapter so you'll get additional sockets for other things. I have tried various 2 to 1 AC adapters during the years and have actually never hear that they descrease SQ.

With that said I can recommend that you try different 0v reference points for different JSGT and see how that turns out. Network devices to a 0v reference isolated from your audio gears works best for me (grounding box). If you have a IT with floating secondary try to use a 3 to 1 ac adapter plugged into the wall inlet and ground network devices into the wall bypassing the IT for example.

[barrows]

@Cornan, I am sure this is covered in the crazy tweak thread, but I am curious how you "isolate" network/computer gear grounds from audio system grounds?  All grounds in your home (should) be connected to single point ground reference.  Or have you placed a separate ground rod rod into the earth, actually having two ground references for your home?  I know some actually do place a separate ground rod for the audio system, but I am pretty sure this violates the NEC in the US for domestic homes.

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

@Cornan, I am sure this is covered in the crazy tweak thread, but I am curious how you "isolate" network/computer gear grounds from audio system grounds?  All grounds in your home (should) be connected to single point ground reference.  Or have you placed a separate ground rod rod into the earth, actually having two ground references for your home?  I know some actually do place a separate ground rod for the audio system, but I am pretty sure this violates the NEC in the US for domestic homes.

 

The thread is called "The true experimental tweak thread". Just let me know if you want to join the crazy tweak club though! ?

 

I just used a convenient word. Isolation. Maybe not a 100% accurate word to describe it, but the only suitable I could come up with in a split second. In this context I mean that if you use JSGT on network devices on a PSD pre a IT with floating secondary there are possible leakage paths into other devices via the PSD. I have heard this myself. The IT with floating secondary is the 0v reference in my example. If you instead use a 2 to 1 ac main adapter at the AC main wall outlet where the IT is connected to one of the sockets. The other socket is then used for a JSTG for the network devices. It will sound better IME. It is exactly the same thing I do with for example battery chargers, iPad chargers etc to minimize interfearences. Worth noticing is that I also use a AC mains DC Blocker trap filter pre my IT.

 

With that said the ultimate way to shunt the noise via JSGT in my own setup is to connect the JSGT to a Entreq Grounding box. If I shunt that noise from network devices to my PSD post my IT it is not nearly as good sounding. If this is due to other variables like my floating SMPS I do not know for sure. I use floating SMPSs into a balanced IT with floating center-tap. I cannot know for sure if this will only affect a similar setup or not. The only thing I know is that it is best in my perticular setup, and that makes it atleast interesting to try for the curious minded IMHO.

 

The not so curious minded will not even try it I'm sure! ?

 

Who should they blame if this does'nt work? Me! ?

 

When it comes to my perticular setup I have plans to try something interesting in the near future. Aleksandar at ATL Hi-Fi lighted my bulb on this one since he noted a ground loop between his Gophert csp-3205II (identical to my three dittos) and his o'scope. When plugged it into a IT with floating sec the ground loop vanished. This lead me to conclude that the Gopherts should actually be isolated from the rest of the setup. In a couple of months I am moving to another appartment and will merge my two setups into one, leaving me to play with three ITs with floating sec. I will connect one to the (3) Gopherts alone and all other gears to the second one. I am actually expecting an improvement! My third IT will be connected to the router end. Worth noticing is that I am 100% concentrated to Tidal FLAC/Tidal MQA (Master). Local content is not allowed! ?

[John769]

3 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

 

Who should they blame if this does'nt work? Me! ?

 

  

[R1200CL]

Just like all to know that the 12V Cisco SG 100D-08 accepts LPS-1 

 

(Just tested). 

 

Johns original test with that switch:

 

 

 

‘’Then I tried a Cisco SG100D-08, a simple un-managed switch, there was no leakage through this no matter what! Yep it completely blocked all leakage coming from its power supply or coming through a connected cable!!!! This was astonishing. I have no idea how it does it, but it certainly does in fact block leakage, even with an ungrounded SMPS powering the switch.’’

[JohnSwenson]

19 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

In my video system I run short of available AC receptacles.

 

Which is the better approach in adding more ground shunts?

•  a so-called hydra JSGT with more than one device connected to the same AC plug, or
• A 3 for 1 AC adapter allowing one outlet to connect 3 JSGT equipped AC plugs

I'm thinking an outlet adapter like this one below is maybe easiest and most flexible to use?

 

You can have multiple ground wires coming out of one plug, no need for multiple plugs.

 

John S.

[rickca]

OK this is too weird.

 

I had a friend modify my Mean Well SMPS to ground the negative output internally.  I plugged it in to my LPS-1.  I got no LED light on my LPS-1, and the green LED on the Mean Well was flashing (whatever that means).

 

So I took it back to him and said it didn't work.  He tries it in his workshop, and it works perfectly.  WTF?  He tells me there must be something weird about my AC ground at home.  Huh?

 

Then it occurs to me that in my test system I use an APC C5 power filter/surge protector.  As soon as I unplugged it, the modified Mean Well/LPS-1 worked perfectly in any outlet in the room.

 

My question is ... how can just having the APC C5 plugged in cause this kind of problem?  It must do something to the circuit, because the modified Mean Well/LPS-1 would not work even plugged directly into a different wall outlet in the same room.

 

Anyway, that APC C5 is going in the trash.  Now I'm using a simple Wiremold L10320.  I will still need to find a surge protection solution because I live in south Florida and we have tons of lightning storms all summer.  I'm in a rental condo so I can't do the usual whole home thing.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I'm in a rental condo so I can't do the usual whole home thing.

 

 Use Power Boards with VDR's in them. They are cheap enough, and should give you quite a bit of protection.

[One and a half]

12 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Use Power Boards with VDR's in them. They are cheap enough, and should give you quite a bit of protection.

A Topaz/Elgar/Xantech isolation transformer will to a better job and a VDR leaks (JS quote).

[rickca]

37 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Use Power Boards with VDR's in them. They are cheap enough, and should give you quite a bit of protection.

If you're talking about MOV surge suppressors ... that's what the APC C5 is that gave me the whole problem in the first case!

[sandyk]

22 minutes ago, One and a half said:

A Topaz/Elgar/Xantech isolation transformer will to a better job and a VDR leaks (JS quote).

 

 We can't always do what we would like to do in this area,. when renting.

The leakage of a VDR may be insignificant compared with transformer efficiency losses ?