Audiophile Earbuds

[left channel]

@AnotherSpin Etymotic doesn't seem to support Android.

Westone offers microphone cables for their W series in Android and iPhone versions. I am very happy with my (no mic) UM Pro30 IEMs. But I have seen complaints that the Westone microphone cables are not as quiet as the regular cables. Not electronically, but from vibrations in the line when moving around. That's one reason I went with the Beyerdynamic product instead.

 

Perhaps the OP should look at the Westone W series...although the OP has probably long since bought something and gotten on with life. :-) 

[ismewor]

I been using Final Audio with extension on iphone or Mojo Dac, it is really good.

[ctsooner]

anything that will interrupt a signal on a cable like a volume control (digital volume degrades the sound unless it's turned up fully) (Ayre QX5 is the only digital control I know of that doesn't seem to degrade as Charlie has figured out a way to do it properly, but a pre amp still sounds better than running it straight.  That's all on other threads) or sending other signals up and down a cable will degrade teh sound. I have been told that by a few manufacturers.  

 

Here is a work around for Empire Ears and many other IEM/Headphone makers.  It's a top cable (three or four choices) with a built in AptX bluetooth 4.2 built into the cable. Has a mic too.  Just go check it out.  It's really cool.

http://www.plussoundaudio.com

[left channel]

Bluetooth introduces a whole new realm of possible audio degradation. I'd rather not go there. It's bad enough we need controls on wired earphones, but it's either that or carry two pairs and fumble around switching between them when a call comes in.

[ctsooner]

I agree. At least hte AptX isn't as bad as straight 4.2 that Apple uses.  

[dalethorn]

8 hours ago, ctsooner said:

anything that will interrupt a signal on a cable like a volume control (digital volume degrades the sound unless it's turned up fully) (Ayre QX5 is the only digital control I know of that doesn't seem to degrade as Charlie has figured out a way to do it properly, but a pre amp still sounds better than running it straight.  That's all on other threads) or sending other signals up and down a cable will degrade teh sound. I have been told that by a few manufacturers.  

 

Here is a work around for Empire Ears and many other IEM/Headphone makers.  It's a top cable (three or four choices) with a built in AptX bluetooth 4.2 built into the cable. Has a mic too.  Just go check it out.  It's really cool.

http://www.plussoundaudio.com

A digital volume control on a cable does not have volume like a digital volume control on a music player.  Normally, anyway.  A digital volume control on a cable typically sends a *signal* to the music player, which itself turns up the volume.  And so, these digital controls don't degrade the sound, unless they are fundamentally different from the clicker controls on Apple cables, for example.

[dalethorn]

6 hours ago, left channel said:

Bluetooth introduces a whole new realm of possible audio degradation. I'd rather not go there. It's bad enough we need controls on wired earphones, but it's either that or carry two pairs and fumble around switching between them when a call comes in.

Bluetooth volume controls on headphones should be the same as the click-button controls on most headphones, i.e. they send a beep tone to the music player, and the music player adjusts the volume.  But there are a few exceptions around.  The Sennheiser PX200-II and PX200-IIi are good examples of where we were a couple years ago.  The PX200-II has an analog volume limiter in its cable, while the PX200-IIi has the digital "volume control" that merely sends a beep to the music player to raise the volume a set amount, about 3.5 db.   The analog control can raise or lower volume a fraction of one db, but the digital control has no such granularity because of the Apple device fixed setting of 3.5 db increase or decrease.  When you use the volume slider on the Apple device directly, you can adjust the volume in much smaller increments, but you have to be very precise with your fingers, or it will choose the fixed increment for you.  I'm sure there are exceptions outside of the Apple world, especially since Android doesn't have the rigid hardware specs of the Apple devices.

[dalethorn]

6 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I agree. At least hte AptX isn't as bad as straight 4.2 that Apple uses.  

From what I've heard, Apple uses version 5 of Bluetooth, but I don't know if version 5 is AptX version 5.

[left channel]

@dalethorn I'm less concerned with controls than the fact that Bluetooth is not the best way to transmit music. It's a messy noisy protocol not originally intended for our purposes. Bluetooth 5 & AptX still don't offer anywhere near the bandwidth you get on wired connections. Apple decided not to use 5/AptX, and instead created their own proprietary "Apple Lossless Bluetooth" for their AirPods, but we know they're not committed to hi-res music, so don't expect too much from that either. For me it's still all wired, all the time. My next phone will be the LG V30.

[dalethorn]

1 hour ago, left channel said:

@dalethorn I'm less concerned with controls than the fact that Bluetooth is not the best way to transmit music. It's a messy noisy protocol not originally intended for our purposes. Bluetooth 5 & AptX still don't offer anywhere near the bandwidth you get on wired connections. Apple decided not to use 5/AptX, and instead created their own proprietary "Apple Lossless Bluetooth" for their AirPods, but we know they're not committed to hi-res music, so don't expect too much from that either. For me it's still all wired, all the time. My next phone will be the LG V30.

I don't see an issue for most cases, because most Bluetooth use will be in places where the noise floor will obscure the finer upper harmonic details and "air" that you'd hear at home when it's very quiet and you're relaxed.  Even then when people are very relaxed and in a very quiet place, most of them are distracted by Web browsing etc., so they don't hear the fine details consciously.

[left channel]

@dalethorn that's a good use case for Apple, but not a cure for audiophilia nervosa I'm afraid.  :-)

[dalethorn]

5 hours ago, left channel said:

@dalethorn that's a good use case for Apple, but not a cure for audiophilia nervosa I'm afraid.  :-)

Definitely.  So when I'm at home or in a quiet place where I can listen attentively, I use my best Bluetooth headphone with the electronics turned off, and I have the cable plugged into the headphone, and the other end plugged into my DragonFly Red.

 

One caveat:  Some Bluetooth headphones sound different, usually worse**, in passive mode.  So I'd only recommend those that are capable of premium sound in wired (passive) mode.

 

**In the case of the Bose QC35, a lot worse, for frequency response.

[left channel]

Sorry, Bluetooth is just not for me. Wired all the way. As I mentioned above, my next phone will be an LG V30.

[AnotherSpin]

8 hours ago, left channel said:

@dalethorn I'm less concerned with controls than the fact that Bluetooth is not the best way to transmit music. It's a messy noisy protocol not originally intended for our purposes. Bluetooth 5 & AptX still don't offer anywhere near the bandwidth you get on wired connections. Apple decided not to use 5/AptX, and instead created their own proprietary "Apple Lossless Bluetooth" for their AirPods, but we know they're not committed to hi-res music, so don't expect too much from that either. For me it's still all wired, all the time. My next phone will be the LG V30.

 

I bought a bluetooth item in a bundle with my Noble Encore IEMs. BTW, this bluetooth thing has a volume controls. Anyway, the sound with it was so dreadful in comparison with direct cable connection, I removed it immediately and never tried again.

[dalethorn]

4 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

I bought a bluetooth item in a bundle with my Noble Encore IEMs. BTW, this bluetooth thing has a volume controls. Anyway, the sound with it was so dreadful in comparison with direct cable connection, I removed it immediately and never tried again.

Both my Bluetooth B&O H4 and V-Moda Wireless2 headphones sound essentially the same in Bluetooth and wired modes, except for slightly less fidelity in Bluetooth mode, which is obvious if you have two of the same headphone and run them side by side - one running wired and one running Bluetooth.

 

The important thing here is not to beat up on Bluetooth - after all, it's just a portable feature to be used where fidelity does not have to be 100 percent.  I think a lot of audiophiles try to convince themselves that they can get that 100 percent fidelity in portable use, where the noise floor is 10-20 db higher than at home, but they're just kidding themselves unless they crank up the volume another 10 db or so, which then leads to hearing damage.

[AnotherSpin]

1 hour ago, dalethorn said:

Both my Bluetooth B&O H4 and V-Moda Wireless2 headphones sound essentially the same in Bluetooth and wired modes, except for slightly less fidelity in Bluetooth mode, which is obvious if you have two of the same headphone and run them side by side - one running wired and one running Bluetooth.

 

The important thing here is not to beat up on Bluetooth - after all, it's just a portable feature to be used where fidelity does not have to be 100 percent.  I think a lot of audiophiles try to convince themselves that they can get that 100 percent fidelity in portable use, where the noise floor is 10-20 db higher than at home, but they're just kidding themselves unless they crank up the volume another 10 db or so, which then leads to hearing damage.

 

I agree, there is always convenience vs. fidelity dilemma. But, in the case with Noble Audio Bluetooth BTS module the problem was interference noise which made listening barely possible at all.

[dalethorn]

1 hour ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

I agree, there is always convenience vs. fidelity dilemma. But, in the case with Noble Audio Bluetooth BTS module the problem was interference noise which made listening barely possible at all.

It's interesting that you mentioned that.  The funny thing is, while most of my Bluetooth items work OK with my iPhone7, if I try to run the Dragonfly Red DAC with my phone (wired mode of course), I get way too many glitches.  So I have to use the DAC with my iPod Touch, which is set to Airplane mode (all WiFi and Bluetooth off).  I suspect the phone is just trying to do too many things, even though I've gone through the more than 500 settings and turned off all non-essential options.

[ctsooner]

First off, I totally agree that bluetooth isn't for those who want the highest fidelity.  That's never been a question, but often times I like not having to plug into my Dragonfly Red adn now my Chord Mojo.  It can be a pain at times.  I don't use BT and probably won't, but it's still an option if any of us want one.  

[AnotherSpin]

39 minutes ago, dalethorn said:

It's interesting that you mentioned that.  The funny thing is, while most of my Bluetooth items work OK with my iPhone7, if I try to run the Dragonfly Red DAC with my phone (wired mode of course), I get way too many glitches.  So I have to use the DAC with my iPod Touch, which is set to Airplane mode (all WiFi and Bluetooth off).  I suspect the phone is just trying to do too many things, even though I've gone through the more than 500 settings and turned off all non-essential options.

 

No matter is iPhone in Airplane mode or not when I use Noble Audio BTS there is an interference noise. When I use iPhone with Chord Mojo and cables I turn Airplane mode on, it helps. But, even when I forget to do this, there is a very short and occasional interference, most notable when I use an elevator in a building. 

[ctsooner]

Do you put a dongle on the mojo or something?  

[AnotherSpin]

10 minutes ago, ctsooner said:

Do you put a dongle on the mojo or something?  

 

When I use IEMs+Mojo+iPhone and cables I hear occasional interference caused by iPhone, if Airplane mode is out. If I use an IEMs with a Bluetooth dongle coupled with iPhone there is a constant interference noise, no matter Airplane mode is on or out.

[ctsooner]

Oh, ok, now I understand.  Makes sense.  I have never heard interference.  I have run it in both modes.  I'll have to really listen better, lol.

[dalethorn]

4 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

No matter is iPhone in Airplane mode or not when I use Noble Audio BTS there is an interference noise. When I use iPhone with Chord Mojo and cables I turn Airplane mode on, it helps. But, even when I forget to do this, there is a very short and occasional interference, most notable when I use an elevator in a building. 

Me too.  That's why I only use the iPod Touch with the DAC.