Light Harmonic Labs: can this company stay viable?

[PorkChop]

For 3+ years now, Larry Ho's company has failed to deliver on many hundreds of thousands of dollar's worth of Indiegogo pledges.  Their overall presence (campaign updates, internal forum communication, support ticket responses, even Facebook posts...) has been steadily declining for years. For the last few months, it's been very close to zero.

 

Not long ago, LHL came out with their GeekOut line and established themselves as a legitimate hi-fi brand. Now, due to the business incompetence of one man, it appears this company is done.  Such a shame.

 

 

[Digital Assassin]

An absolute criminal, total scum. I have a friend who bought their expensive Indiegogo DAC THREE YEARS AGO and it has not been delivered yet.

 

He should never ever work in the industry again. That carnival barker Gavin Fish should be strung up to.

[wwaldmanfan]

14 minutes ago, Digital Assassin said:

An absolute criminal, total scum. I have a friend who bought their expensive Indiegogo DAC THREE YEARS AGO and it has not been delivered yet.

 

Start-up companies used to go to Wall Street for investment capital. Now, they expect end-use consumers to front the money for products that don't exist? With so many legit choices out there, I don't really get why someone would fall for that.

[Digital Assassin]

2 minutes ago, wwaldmanfan said:

 

Start-up companies used to go to Wall Street for investment capital. Now, they expect end-use consumers to front the money for products that don't exist? With so many legit choices out there, I don't really get why someone would fall for that.

Of course I agree but that being said once you take the money you have an OBLIGATION to deliver the product. Otherwise it is just theft.

 

A lot of this industry relies good faith. They obviously have none left and should be prosecuted.

[kravi4ka]

This was not incompetence, it was pure greed. I have had interaction with them right from the start and when someone starts lying and making up stories from the first days of a company it always ends that way. I have said it several times that it was not just their greed but the greed and nativity of their customers as well.

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, PorkChop said:

Now, due to the business incompetence of one man, it appears this company is done.  Such a shame.

 

Any official reference or news link?

 

And just to be clear, LH Labs took in over $7 million between all its Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaigns--and delivered less that half than in goods promised.

 

A LOT of people got burned...

[newworld]

So that's it? Those people have lost their money just like that?

[foodfiend]

I don't see anything official in the media. Their websites are still up, and one of their Facebook accounts was updated on 25th July.

 

That said, I cannot remember how long it took to eventually get my Geek Pulse. Once bitten, twice shy.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, newworld said:

So that's it? Those people have lost their money just like that?

That's how those crowdfunding sites work. You are not buying a product, you are making a non-equity investment in a project. Project doesn't succeed-you lose your money. 

[kravi4ka]

They sold promises and were good at it, indeed. Brave New world of Kickstarter, I remember one of the guys on another project just bought a house with the money and left his partner do the explaining to the IRS

 

But obviously people were blind and nothing can help you when you avoid using common sense, you always take a risk and you should.be able to handle that scenario as well. Sad.

[Beefalo]

Yep, I'm in that boat. Vanilla Pulse (received - meh) and waiting on a Wave DAP. Luckily I'm only out $229 for a low level one. i feel bad for those that are out thousands.....

 

I did have one success with Indiegogo. Peachtree Deep Blue 2. Funded, only 1 month past scheduled delivery and a great bargain. Use almost everyday in our kitchen.

 

But never again. I will also not purchase anything from Audioengine as long as Gavin Fish is employed by them. Gavin, Larry Ho and Casey Hartwell (lying DB).......hope you invested wisely. Reputations follow you in this industry.

[PorkChop]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

That's how those crowdfunding sites work. You are not buying a product, you are making a non-equity investment in a project. Project doesn't succeed-you lose your money. 

 

Well...there are still some ethical lines, grey as they are. These funds are appropriated for a specifc purpose.  If the campaigner immediately spends them on a 3 month vacation in Aruba...maybe they can't be punished by the crowdfunding site, but that's still a case of business fraud.

 

Maybe the Light Harmonic Labs situation isn't as open and shut, but it does appear that an artifcial storyline has been created to cover up facts about them spending money obtained from newer IGG projects to fulfill previous initiatives.

[Digital Assassin]

3 minutes ago, PorkChop said:

 

Well...there are still some ethical lines, grey as they are. These funds are appropriated for a specifc purpose.  If the campaigner immediately spends them on a 3 month vacation in Aruba...maybe they can't be punished by the crowdfunding site, but that's still a case of business fraud.

 

Maybe the Light Harmonic Labs situation isn't as open and shut, but it does appear that an artifcial storyline has been created to cover up facts about them spending money obtained from newer IGG projects to fulfill previous initiatives.

Here is the question..is the community going to take Larry Ho and Gavin Fish to task? As far as I am concerned they are guilty of fraud. My friend is out 3 large. That is a significant amount of money.

 

On top of that it kept him on the sidelines, unable to purchase a competitor's DAC because his money was already spent. Well done Ho and Fish.

[rdsu]

They doesn't seem to be dead...

 

https://www.facebook.com/geekbylhlabs

[Digital Assassin]

Just now, rdsu said:

They doesn't seem to be dead...

 

https://www.facebook.com/geekbylhlabs

But they in effect dead...they do not respond to any inquires, and basically have abandoned all efforts to fullfil

their obligations.

 

The money is gone. Period.  Facebook or no.

[labjr]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

That's how those crowdfunding sites work. You are not buying a product, you are making a non-equity investment in a project. Project doesn't succeed-you lose your money. 

 

Sometimes that's the case. But not what happened with them. They were deliberately using crowdfunding as a means to take people's money with no recourse. 

[PorkChop]

The GeekOut line is likely their only moneymaker at this point.  My guess is that Larry Ho will continue to feversihly peddle these in Asia (where his public reputation hasn't been as destroyed), hoping against hope that this trickling revenue source will keep him afloat.

[Superdad]

I noticed two things on their Facebook page: 

1) They traveled all the way to Kuala Lumpur for a trade show last month;

 

2) On the left menu of the page there is a choice called "Customer Happiness." Clicking on it returns the message "The page you were looking for does not exist."  Now THAT'S truth in marketing! 

 

They will still take $2,600 to "reserve" one of their "Source" music servers, so I guess that end of the business still ingests...

 

[kravi4ka]

Yeah, Gavin Fish is my hero in that story, I work with people everyday and that guy was fabricating stories from day one... No Audioengine then, kind of liked them... But there were others that I did not have the luck to cumminucate with, like that smiling guy:

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/light-harmonic-sire-dac

[firedog]

1 hour ago, labjr said:

 

Sometimes that's the case. But not what happened with them. They were deliberately using crowdfunding as a means to take people's money with no recourse. 

Yes, but intent doesn't matter in a practical/legal sense. They can be just a business failure or a deliberate scam, you have next to no recourse. And the site itself also isn't liable- even though they've taken their cut, they've protected themselves in the user agreement.

[foodfiend]

2 hours ago, PorkChop said:

The GeekOut line is likely their only moneymaker at this point.  My guess is that Larry Ho will continue to feversihly peddle these in Asia (where his public reputation hasn't been as destroyed), hoping against hope that this trickling revenue source will keep him afloat.

Trust me, their names are in the dirt already.

 

At first, I thought it was bad enough that products were badly delayed, and they were using the crowdfunding projects to fund their R&D. However, once the products didn't get fulfilled, I realised the depth of the scam, since they continued to develop more crowdfunding projects to raise more money.

[EdmontonCanuck]

They are still posting updates on the Indiegogo site though. A new update regarding their Vi DAC was just recently posted showing more pictures of their machined chassis' that are being readied to ship out to backers (of which I am one, fortunately or otherwise....time will tell).

[PorkChop]

1 hour ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

They are still posting updates on the Indiegogo site though. A new update regarding their Vi DAC was just recently posted showing more pictures of their machined chassis' that are being readied to ship out to backers (of which I am one, fortunately or otherwise....time will tell).

 

Noted. But remember, you still haven't received anything.  For LHL, talk is cheap, and the evidence shows a willingness to make false promises into perpetuity.

 

Vi Dac may be their last gasp at fulfilling at least one campaign.  Many of us on the Wave campaign are convinced LHL will not deliver.  And to me, even if they actually send something after 5+ years or whatever...that is the same as failing to deliver.  It's just a DAP for goodness sake. Who would want to wait that long for an impulse gratification item?  Dozens of competitors have come out during this time, so I and many others just had to bite the bullet and buy one of those.  Meanwhile, LHL still can't even finalize production specs.  What a joke.  

[Beefalo]

1 hour ago, PorkChop said:

 

Noted. But remember, you still haven't received anything.  For LHL, talk is cheap, and the evidence shows a willingness to make false promises into perpetuity.

 

Vi Dac may be their last gasp at fulfilling at least one campaign.  Many of us on the Wave campaign are convinced LHL will not deliver.  And to me, even if they actually send something after 5+ years or whatever...that is the same as failing to deliver.  It's just a DAP for goodness sake. Who would want to wait that long for an impulse gratification item?  Dozens of competitors have come out during this time, so I and many others just had to bite the bullet and buy one of those.  Meanwhile, LHL still can't even finalize production specs.  What a joke.  

Ding ding ding. However, even the 'updates' for some products have stopped.

Even if we do receive our items (Pulse, Wave, Source, ViDac) do you have any expectation of quality? Read about all the issues with the Pulse with some having units in for MONTHS for fixes with no response. I may get my Wave. I do not expect something that will work.

[Panelhead]

  I purchased several Geek Out models and my family liked them. Then an Infinity Dac. Took forever but did arrive. Failed and was returned and it did get repaired. How a dac suffers motherboard failure after 3 months is an unusual failure. 

  I saw many reasons they failed. Too many models, low prices, LONG lead times, poor quality vendors.

  The Pulse family as a whole suffered from the many versions produced. Most required different firmware. Also firmware requirements changed during production run. To update firmware required serial number and model. And then they got confused and started sending the incorrect firmware to owners. Updating to the wrong firmware bricked some of the dacs.

  The whole project was run without planning. I doubt if they were expecting to fail. Just made too many mistakes. 

  My Infinity X dac sounds okay. A little lightweight. Not sure if it is implementation, USB, or ES9018 chips. Many blame USB or the 9018. Just cannot listen to it anymore. No involvement.

  I do not see any crowdfunding campaigns. I think it was not just audio products that failed to deliver customers expectations.