Heos vs. Sonos to replace Squeezebox Touch?

[classfolkphile]

I'm looking to replace my Squeezebox Touch with a new streamer, probably either Heos or Sonos. It would be for background listening, mostly with Spotify and internet radio, through my Audioengine A5+ powered speakers.

 

I might want to be able to wirelessly stream my music library (on an external hard drive connected to my Mac Mini) though. Will probably be switching from iTunes to JRiver on the Mac - which I control with a Macbook Pro laptop - soon.

 

Ease of setup and use is important. I don't want sound quality worse than I have now but don't need it to be any better for said casual listening. Recos?

[classfolkphile]

No replies, but I bought a Sonos because it plays AIFF and I can control it from my laptop.

If the sound quality is inadequate, I have the option of buying a used BiFrost at a good price.

[jcn3]

nothing is more flexible than sonos for streaming whether streaming from your music library, internet radio, or any of the many services supported by sonos.

 

analog outs aren't the best, but i would think you'd find it quite acceptable with the audioengine speakers.  give it a try, and like you said, you can always add a dac.  if you're trying to keep the costs down on a dac, just go for a modi multibit -- only $250 new.

[Nuz1]

Have you looked at Bluesound?   Plays Hi-Rez (but not DSD) similar to tour Touch.  App may not be as good as Sonos but Bluesound has many product options for a whole house system.  Plus Roon ready &  MQA if that's of any interest.   NAD Electronics is also in the same family of streamers so you can synch those too.  In fact, I've read where Dali is going to have new wireless products that use the Blu Os.  

 

Must confess that I don't own one yet.   But the more I read, the more I'm impressed with the range of products and flexibility it offers.

[classfolkphile]

5 hours ago, jcn3 said:

nothing is more flexible than sonos for streaming whether streaming from your music library, internet radio, or any of the many services supported by sonos.

 

analog outs aren't the best, but i would think you'd find it quite acceptable with the audioengine speakers.  give it a try, and like you said, you can always add a dac.  if you're trying to keep the costs down on a dac, just go for a modi multibit -- only $250 new.

Thanks. I can get a Bifrost AKM 4490 cheap, if I'm unhappy with the sound from the Sonos, so I'll probably try that first.

[classfolkphile]

2 hours ago, Nuz1 said:

Have you looked at Bluesound?   Plays Hi-Rez (but not DSD) similar to tour Touch.  App may not be as good as Sonos but Bluesound has many product options for a whole house system.  Plus Roon ready &  MQA if that's of any interest.   NAD Electronics is also in the same family of streamers so you can synch those too.  In fact, I've read where Dali is going to have new wireless products that use the Blu Os.  

 

Must confess that I don't own one yet.   But the more I read, the more I'm impressed with the range of products and flexibility it offers.

 

No, thanks anyway.

 

It's significantly more expensive and I think the extra money would be better spent on an external DAC, if needed. I don't need/want Hi-Rez as this is for background listening. Also not interested in Roon, MQA, NAD or multi-room functionality. The ease of use is important, however, which Sonos does well apparently.

[jcn3]

13 hours ago, classfolkphile said:

Thanks. I can get a Bifrost AKM 4490 cheap, if I'm unhappy with the sound from the Sonos, so I'll probably try that first.

 

unless you can get the bifrost 4490 for less than $250, then i would get the modi multibit.  generally, folks find the schiit multibits sound better than d/s.

 

only advantage of the bifrost 4490 over the modi multibit is upgradeability.

[Paul R]

There isn't much out there that is a cool as a Squeezebox Touch was, but some Sono's comes very close.  Sonos of course, is limited to CD quality, but that limit is less meaningful when you know that you have the entire Apple Music library to stream from, as well as Tidal and a few dozen other sources. That is on top of your existing library of course. 

 

Another option, and actually the one I am landing more and more on lately,  is using Roon and small computers. Something like the Sonic Orbiter SE is dynamite. Or I use cheap NUCs running Windows 10 right now, feeding them into a different DACs for different systems.  This sounds stunning, and - it allows for listening to our music on portable devices, anywhere we have internet connectivity. Roon can also stream to any Sono's endpoint. 

 

The downside? They only have an agreement with Tidal, whom I am developing a distinct dislike for. You can't stream from Apple Music, or Deezer, or BandCamp, or any of the many other sources you can access from Sonos. 

 

Roon, starting at version 1.3, would be darn near a perfect for solution for us, if not for that pesky Tidal restriction.  Even then, it seems to be the interface and player of choice for most of us. The Roon server is running on an i5 Mac Mini with 8gb of RAM and a 68 Terabyte RAID drive attached via Firewire. It also runs a Plex server for our video library.

 

-Paul

[classfolkphile]

7 hours ago, jcn3 said:

 

unless you can get the bifrost 4490 for less than $250, then i would get the modi multibit.  generally, folks find the schiit multibits sound better than d/s.

 

only advantage of the bifrost 4490 over the modi multibit is upgradeability.

 

Significantly less than $250 (from a friend). Just set up the Sonos. Out of the box, the sound is thick, muddy and pretty poor. BiFrost being shipped out.

[classfolkphile]

6 hours ago, Paul R said:

There isn't much out there that is a cool as a Squeezebox Touch was, but some Sono's comes very close.  Sonos of course, is limited to CD quality, but that limit is less meaningful when you know that you have the entire Apple Music library to stream from, as well as Tidal and a few dozen other sources. That is on top of your existing library of course. 

 

Another option, and actually the one I am landing more and more on lately,  is using Roon and small computers. Something like the Sonic Orbiter SE is dynamite. Or I use cheap NUCs running Windows 10 right now, feeding them into a different DACs for different systems.  This sounds stunning, and - it allows for listening to our music on portable devices, anywhere we have internet connectivity. Roon can also stream to any Sono's endpoint. 

 

The downside? They only have an agreement with Tidal, whom I am developing a distinct dislike for. You can't stream from Apple Music, or Deezer, or BandCamp, or any of the many other sources you can access from Sonos. 

 

Roon, starting at version 1.3, would be darn near a perfect for solution for us, if not for that pesky Tidal restriction.  Even then, it seems to be the interface and player of choice for most of us. The Roon server is running on an i5 Mac Mini with 8gb of RAM and a 68 Terabyte RAID drive attached via Firewire. It also runs a Plex server for our video library.

 

-Paul

 

Roon doesn't handle classical well, so it doesn't interest me on it's own. Added to that, Tidal doesn't appeal either. I'm hoping Spotify bumps up to CD quality, but again this is for background listening with a pair of Audioengine A5+. The sound I got from the SB Touch with these speakers was satisfying, so I just need to get back to that level w/o spending a lot of money. I'll update when I receive the BiFrost.

[Paul R]

5 hours ago, classfolkphile said:

 

Roon doesn't handle classical well, so it doesn't interest me on it's own. Added to that, Tidal doesn't appeal either. I'm hoping Spotify bumps up to CD quality, but again this is for background listening with a pair of Audioengine A5+. The sound I got from the SB Touch with these speakers was satisfying, so I just need to get back to that level w/o spending a lot of money. I'll update when I receive the BiFrost.

 

Handling Classical Music is far more a matter of correctly tagging it and embedding the metadata than any individual player. We have very little trouble with classical music, which is a significant part of collection. (If I had to guess, I would say a little more than 50%.) 

[classfolkphile]

8 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

Handling Classical Music is far more a matter of correctly tagging it and embedding the metadata than any individual player. We have very little trouble with classical music, which is a significant part of collection. (If I had to guess, I would say a little more than 50%.) 

 

IIRC, the options for tagging are more limited in Roon? I'll have to double check.

[Apesbrain]

16 hours ago, classfolkphile said:

The sound I got from the SB Touch with these speakers was satisfying, so I just need to get back to that level w/o spending a lot of money.

 

Just curious, what was the issue with the old Touch?  piCorePlayer on Raspberry Pi would have been a "drop-in" replacement; runs on LMS just like any other Squeezebox.

[Paul R]

9 hours ago, classfolkphile said:

 

IIRC, the options for tagging are more limited in Roon? I'll have to double check.

 

Well, admittedly I usually do the tagging at rip-time using XLD - mostly out of habit and preference. 

 

Once tagged however, Roon doesn't seem to have any issues handling them. Even custom tags that I add into our music collection.  About the same as some version of JRMC that were modified for classical collections. 

 

[classfolkphile]

12 hours ago, Apesbrain said:

 

Just curious, what was the issue with the old Touch?  piCorePlayer on Raspberry Pi would have been a "drop-in" replacement; runs on LMS just like any other Squeezebox.

 

Doesn't do Spotify anymore without some third party software workaround. I'm not computer savvy and don't want to spend time figuring it out. Which also applies to the Pi, which I've heard requires a fair amount of work. This is for background listening: I wanted something simple to set up.

[Apesbrain]

10 hours ago, classfolkphile said:

Doesn't do Spotify anymore without some third party software workaround.

 

Glad you found your solution.  For anyone else who might be under the same impression, please note that Spotify is available on the Squeezebox Touch using the new "Spotty" plugin:

 

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107615-Announce-Spotty-v1-1-0

[classfolkphile]

So I hooked up the BiFrost 4490 a friend sent me and have used it for a week. It's better than the Sonos by itself of course: clearer, more resolving and balanced. Eliminates the muddy thickness (particularly in the bass) of the Sonos. But it's a bit cool and forward in presentation. Not what I'm looking for. I'll probably try a Modi Multibit as - aside from the hoped for sound improvement - it fits better in the space I have for it.