Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[left channel]

11 minutes ago, semente said:

 

I use one to power my R-Pi.

Make sure one Ampere is enough for your needs.

 

R

 

The stock adapter is a Xingsu Global with 120/240V 50/60Hz .06A max input, and 5.0V 1.0A output.

[Narbooty]

Hey all! First time poster here. I wanted to start off by saying, "holy crap, you guys have been so helpful already!" You guys are amazing. I'm relatively new to the audiophile ways and you guys are an inspiration in terms of knowledge and thought process.

 

I have so many general questions at this point, but for now given the nature of this particular forum I'll simply ask this: Has anyone gotten any solid word back on US availability at this point? I've tried to ask a few local stores but have no info so far. I've seen some good links for European sources at what appears to be reasonable prices but in a perfect world I would prefer to buy from a relatively local source in case there is an issue. I'm leaning towards pulling the trigger from overseas at this point though, given the uncertainty of a US availability date. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[left channel]

@Narbooty I've just sent an email to my local retailer to ask. In September they couldn't even quote a price yet. I know Pro-Ject has a US distributor, but don't know if there's any in the sales channels yet.

 

Normally Pro-Ject retailers in the US focus on the turntables and other relatively higher-priced products. This is more of an Amazon/eBay price-point thing everywhere, but I hope someone in the US puts it online. Ordering from Europe wasn't too bad even with the exchange rate and international shipping, but I'm sure there will be at least some savings when available here.

[Narbooty]

@left channel Thanks! Yea ordering from over seas doesnt seem too bad. If I find out supply on the US side won't happen for a while I'm sure I'll just pull the trigger. I'd just prefer not to order right now only to find out I could have waited a week or something like that. Either way, it is what it is! Thanks again.

 

 

[Narbooty]

*cough* I just placed the order. Couldn't wait 

[left channel]

:-) Totally understand. And oh, welcome to CA!

[arcman]

Since I have my preamp (Rogue RP-5), I am now able to use the S2 as a pure dac. Plus, I also have the analog outs of the bluesound node2 connected as well. The new tubes in my preamp has settled in. The S2 still has a slight edge over the Bluesound Node2 internal dac, at least with my setting, I'm using slow roll off with distortion compensation on. The mids seem to be just a tad silkier with the S2. The highs slightly more "airey". Not in a harsh or "sparkly" kind of way. The low end seems the same as the Bluesound. I'm looking forward to hearing the S2 compared to much higher end dacs (like the Benchmark mentioned early on in this thread). Personally I think MQA is in a bad place right now, so I am not expecting much more, equipment wise, to pop up. I think TEAC will include MQA in their next DAC/network player model updates. MQA may get to the point, like Apple Lossless, to where it is basically free to use for manufacturers (Apple tried the "closed" audio file system and nobody bit 15 years ago). If that's the case, many more options, especially in A/V receivers will appear. 

[MagnusH]

11 minutes ago, arcman said:

Since I have my preamp (Rogue RP-5), I am now able to use the S2 as a pure dac.  

If you haven't done so already, try giving the S2 better power, it makes a fairly big difference. iFi iPower is a good and cheap $50 choice.

[arcman]

Good info thanks

[left channel]

@Narbooty has gone ahead and ordered from Europe, but for everyone else in the USA I've just received this information from my local retailer, Century Stereo: "The Pre-Box S2 is $399 but has not arrived in the US yet. The rep did say we can place orders but he does not have an ETA."

[Miska]

One thing I want to note here, based on measurements, remember to check that "Distortion Compensate" menu option is "Enabled". Otherwise the performance will significantly suffer!

 

[left channel]

 

 

30 minutes ago, Miska said:

One thing I want to note here, based on measurements, remember to check that "Distortion Compensate" menu option is "Enabled". Otherwise the performance will significantly suffer!

 

 

Many here agree! Just for the record, the designer of this DAC likes it best with Distortion Compensation disabled and the filter set to Optimal Transient, however his own lab instruments agree with @Miska's that the best setting is Distortion Compensation enabled, and also that the filter should be set to Brickwall. YMMV.

The Audio Quality menu has two options,  "Best" and "Test".  Best sets the above-mentioned features the way the designer likes them, while Test sets them the way the instruments like them. You can also go into the menus to individually adjust those however you'd like including several other filter options, after which Audio Quality will display "User".

 

When the DAC is decoding MQA the filters are disabled (because MQA has its own built-in filters), but Distortion Compensation can still be adjusted.

 

 

[MagnusH]

I had mine "Disabled", since if you select "Best" for Audio it turns to disabled. I thought it should be enabled for measurements and disabled for listening? To late to test sound quality now though, will experiment some tomorrow.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

One thing I want to note here, based on measurements, remember to check that "Distortion Compensate" menu option is "Enabled". Otherwise the performance will significantly suffer!

Is this the THD compensation feature in the ESS DAC or something else?

[mansr]

53 minutes ago, MagnusH said:

enabled for measurements and disabled for listening?

Why would you measure anything other than what you're listening to?

[Miska]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Is this the THD compensation feature in the ESS DAC or something else?

 

I believe it is some feature of the ESS DAC chip. The difference in distortion is more than one order of magnitude!

[Miska]

7 hours ago, MagnusH said:

I had mine "Disabled", since if you select "Best" for Audio it turns to disabled. I thought it should be enabled for measurements and disabled for listening? To late to test sound quality now though, will experiment some tomorrow.

 

Don't select that unless you want to listen to a distortion generator!

 

"Fast rolloff" filter + "Distortion Compensate Enabled" gives pretty decent performance. Although the ESS digital filter has only 100 dB stop-band attenuation (typical equiripple).

[MagnusH]

I can't say I hear much difference between the filters or the distortion enabled/disabled, but I'll go with your suggestion :-)

[semente]

14 hours ago, left channel said:

 

 

 

Many here agree! Just for the record, the designer of this DAC likes it best with Distortion Compensation disabled and the filter set to Optimal Transient, however his own lab instruments agree with @Miska's that the best setting is Distortion Compensation enabled, and also that the filter should be set to Brickwall. YMMV.

The Audio Quality menu has two options,  "Best" and "Test".  Best sets the above-mentioned features the way the designer likes them, while Test sets them the way the instruments like them. You can also go into the menus to individually adjust those however you'd like including several other filter options, after which Audio Quality will display "User".

 

When the DAC is decoding MQA the filters are disabled (because MQA has its own built-in filters), but Distortion Compensation can still be adjusted.

 

 

 

That sounds a bit like the VW emissions scam.

[Miska]

IMO, only good solution is one that both instruments and ears like.

[left channel]

I think I'm hearing a slight difference on Tidal MQA streams, and prefer Distortion Compensation on. That would be an interesting comment on MQA, as I can't hear a difference on anything else from 128K MP3 radio to DSD256. But it's a very small and subtle change. Maybe I'm blessed to have indiscriminate ears, or inferior equipment, or maybe my other music files and streams are just that good. But I guess I'll leave that setting enabled for now. Also...I'm really enjoying this box, but for some reason still prefer my Schiit stack for regular hi-res and under.

[left channel]

On 11/8/2017 at 7:58 AM, MagnusH said:

If you haven't done so already, try giving the S2 better power, it makes a fairly big difference. iFi iPower is a good and cheap $50 choice.

 

On 11/8/2017 at 1:03 PM, arcman said:

Good info thanks

 

I decided not to get the iFi Power because of reports it generates line hum and RF interference, as I've got a ham radio in the same room. But I did replace the stock wall-wart with a linear (non-switching) version and a 2.1 mm to micro USB adapter. Unlike the switch from USB power to external power I don't hear an immediate difference, but as with the distortion/filter settings could make an improvement in some situations, and also generates less buzzy RF than the average switching adapter.

[Narbooty]

3 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

 

I decided not to get the iFi Power because of reports it generates line hum and RF interference, as I've got a ham radio in the same room. But I did replace the stock wall-wart with a linear (non-switching) wall-wart and 2.1 mm to micro USB adapter. Unlike the switch from USB power to external power I don't hear an immediate difference, but as with the distortion/filter settings could make an improvement in some situations, and also generates less buzzy RF than the average switching adapter.

 

I'm wondering if I should just order these now to have on hand before the DAC arrives...

 

Also, thanks again for looking into the US delivery date/price. I think I'm glad I ordered now, given the price I got and the relative uncertainty. 

[left channel]

43 minutes ago, Narbooty said:

 

I'm wondering if I should just order these now to have on hand before the DAC arrives...

 

Also, thanks again for looking into the US delivery date/price. I think I'm glad I ordered now, given the price I got and the relative uncertainty. 

 

Everyone including the designer agrees the included external power adapter will improve the sound over USB power alone. Beyond that it's not at all certain you'll hear a difference after adding other products on those inputs, because everyone's ears and systems are different. But if you like to play with these things just because you can, then in my book that's a good enough reason to spend at least whatever you've saved over the US price. :-) 

[left channel]

As I'm not hearing a difference with the new power adapter, I've swapped the stock adapter back in unless and until it causes problems (which is unlikely). The new adapter uses twice as much power, which generates much more heat. Too bad I can't find 5v 1A LPS wall-warts from the producer that supplies Schiit; those are smaller, more efficient, and seem of better quality.  Oh well this one was cheap and I'm sure I'll find another use for it.