Popular Post esldude Posted July 18, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2017 The following was taken from this article on Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop. It is from the end of the article that lists eight steps to selling snake oil. I changed a small number of words. Any of it sound familiar? https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/defense-of-gwyneth-paltrows-goop-offers-case-study-on-how-to-sell-snake-oil/ No hate for Gwyneth Paltrow here. She is a fine actress though perhaps a bit misguided on some products she promotes. Step 1. Assure the customer that you are there for them and can care for them—especially when no one else is or can, including the heartless, mainstream audio engineering community. As Great sound puts it: Our primary place is in addressing people, audiophiles in particular, who are tired of hearing less-than-great sound, who are looking for solutions—these audiophiles are not imagining what they hear, and they should not be dismissed or marginalized. 2. Explain that you just have more answers than those stuffy evidence-based doctors because you look at things from a fresh, holistic perspective. We are drawn to doctors, engineers, and designers who are interested in both Western and Eastern modalities and incorporate the best from both, as they generally believe that, while traditional sound reproduction can be really good at meeting spec, enjoyable music goals are more adept at tackling issues that are chronic. 3. Gently caution that you might not have all the answers—because, duh!, nobody does. So, it’s understandable that not all of your remedies will work. The thing about science and sound is that it evolves all the time. Studies and beliefs that we held sacred even in the last decade have since been proven to be unequivocally false and sometimes even harmful. Meanwhile, other advances in science and sound continue to change and enrich lives. It is not a perfect system; it is a human system. 4. But stress that you are the real deal. You have degrees, badges, and an open mind. The doctors we regularly feature on Great Sound: doctors who publish in peer-reviewed journals; doctors who trained at the best institutions; engineers who are repeatedly at the forefront of quality music reproduction; engineers and scientists who persistently and aggressively maintain an open mind. 5. And you are definitely not crazy at all!!! We would never suggest that someone skip all measurements, design solely by ear, that they refuse to take advantage of modern materials, that they not use the latest technical advancements. There is much in Western science to marvel at. 6. At this point, note that you are the victim of Meany McCriticFaces, who don’t know what they’re talking about and are just trying to sell stuff and promote their own brands, unlike you, who have the customers’ backs (see step 1). There are third parties who critique Great Sound to leverage that interest and bring attention to themselves. Encouraging discussion of new ideas is certainly one of our goals, but indiscriminate attacks that question the motivation and integrity of the doctors, engineers, and designers who contribute to the site is not. 7. Twist the facts to suggest that any critics of you are actually critics of the customer. You’re in this together! Some of the coverage that Great Sound receives suggests that audiophiles are lemmings, ready to jump off a cliff whenever one of our designers discusses using special cable, or improving a power supply, or dampening a chassis—or, heaven forbid, take a walk barefoot. As audiophiles, we chafe at the idea that we are not intelligent enough to read reviews and take what serves us, and leave what does not. We simply want information; we want autonomy over our musical lives. 8. End by turning the table on those who dare to criticize evidence-free, nonsensical audiophile remedies that may be ineffective. Declare that it is those critics that are in fact ineffective, not you, who are open and compassionate. It is unfortunate that there are some who seem to believe that they already know it all, who pre-judge information before they’ve even taken the time to read or understand it, who believe that there is actually nothing left to learn, who believe that they, singularly, own the truth. That is troubling, and that is dangerous. Here’s to an open and honest dialogue, to open minds and open hearts. eternaloptimist, sarvsa and mansr 3 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 most eggcellent! BUT you left out a few important phrases: modern lifestyle cutting-edge experts vetted curated also, where are the stickers? Link to comment
semente Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Who cares if it works if you enjoy it? "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Jud Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Goop? Successful? Goop has raised $15-20 million in venture capital, which is a measure of success that is used these days rather than actual, uh, sales. Meanwhile, Oil of Olay (or, as I like to call it, Oil of Old Lady) has annual sales of $2.8 billion. And no homeopaths were harmed during the making of the Oil of Olay products. Now, anyone wanna tell me how Oil of Olay "works"? So yeah, woo is a rich comic vein. But good old fashioned non-woo marketing works much, much better to move dollars from you to the seller. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
NOMBEDES Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Why not rub Argan oil on your speakers? I have heard that skin wrinkles are just like the dreaded jitter. In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Money is not the only measure of success The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 hmmmm.... " Unique individuals " We are all unique individuals with differing tastes, who have different criteria when judging musical value. Therefore there are no “this is the best” or “ this fits all” products. As a manufacturer we can simply offer you good products, from sound choices, built on a foundation of knowledge and experience while offering a degree of personal flexibility and tuning.From our full range of Groundiloquent Boxes to the Dionysios and now our new complete Zanadu line, we feel we have taken sound reproduction to a level that words cannot describe. The only way to understand how natural a system can sound with these products is to try them for yourself.That which can be measured is not so important, and that which is important cannot be measuredThere is quite a lot of truth in that sentence, even if it is not completely correct.We at Dreqmore trust more what we hear and experience than what the gauges tell us. If this sounds better than anything else, then it is. It is that simple, even if you perhaps cannot explain it scientifically with measurements " The years have truly taught us that the more you assume you understand the more you NEED to explore and stay open minded to solutions that simply have yet to be realised. Its a lot of small details that make it. We have come to the conclusion that if you THINK you have complete understanding, you have already lost your way ! There is always more to learn & understand !" (names changed) esldude 1 Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, rando said: Was this intentional? nope. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Interesting. In defense of the snake oil in this industry, at least one's health isn't on the line. You make a dumb purchase on some audio snake oil, oh well your wallet is lighter. You make a dumb purchase of some of that Goop recommended stuff and you might get sick. Not good. jabbr 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Wait, I just said Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: In defense of the snake oil in this industry please, no out of context quotes in the future :~) All snake oil sucks. Some sucks worse. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post semente Posted July 18, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Wait, I just said please, no out of context quotes in the future :~) All snake oil sucks. Some sucks worse. You've written it on the internet which is even worse. esldude and The Computer Audiophile 2 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
esldude Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 Oh come on Chris....things could be worse so that makes it better? The idea that audio snake oil isn't as dangerous as health snake oil is a weak, weak defence. Yes, I recognize the context and that you aren't saying you defend snake oil. Of course there is the mental health issue. Sure maybe someone's enjoyment is genuinely improved with disposable income spent harmlessly on audio snake oil. Does that leave one more likely to be exploited for health based snake oil or anti-vaxxer snake oil due to habit of pattern of thought? And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
esldude Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: In defense of the snake oil in this industry please, no out of context quotes in the future :~) Ooops, did I just quote that wrong??? And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Speedskater Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 That which can be measured is not so important, and that which is important cannot be measured Only when euphonic colorization is the thing that is important. Link to comment
elcorso Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, esldude said: Oh come on Chris....things could be worse so that makes it better? The idea that audio snake oil isn't as dangerous as health snake oil is a weak, weak defence. Yes, I recognize the context and that you aren't saying you defend snake oil. Of course there is the mental health issue. Sure maybe someone's enjoyment is genuinely improved with disposable income spent harmlessly on audio snake oil. Does that leave one more likely to be exploited for health based snake oil or anti-vaxxer snake oil due to habit of pattern of thought? Do not worry Dennis, what we are already mentally ill will not get worse Roch Link to comment
wushuliu Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Dear Lord, now we're linking audiophiles to Gwyneth Paltrow products? If we're going there we need to accept that most of the consumer products we own in some way or other qualify as 'snake oil'. Maybe if the ever vigilant detractors were as impassioned about the every day items we ingest, wear, and watch as they are about the perils of cables, etc. we wouldn't be reading about 'Goop' on 'Ars Technica'. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, wushuliu said: ... most of the consumer products we own in some way or other qualify as 'snake oil'. ... hardly however, the audiophile segment is rife with consumer fraud eternaloptimist 1 Link to comment
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