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More Disruptive Schiit (Vidar)


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2 hours ago, Dev said:

Though more than twice the price of Vidar, the Job225 would be another amp to compare ...

A Job INT gets you 175w at 8ohms plus a preamp and a DAC for $1700; and I bet it would acquit itself well against that stack. Sure it's good Schiit, though.

Mac Mini (+Tidal +Roon) -> WiFi -> Lyngdorf TDAI1120 ->JM Reynaud Lucia (Tellurium Q Black v2)

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3 hours ago, franz159 said:

 

Until now I was oriented to buy a NordAcoustic amp.

This was based on more than positive user feedbacks read on various sites (probably also here on Computer Audiophile)

 

The need is in short to power in the appropriate way a pair of "hungry" Elac UB5

https://www.elac.com/product/ub5/

 

Now, knowing that Vidar is finally available and considering that (as mentioned by gmgraves) one single Vidar is probably enough for my need, I am actually re-considering my options.

 

The main remaining reason in favour of the Nord Acoustic MP amp is probably just its flexibility in terms of power input (auto-switching between 115V and 230V) which is somehow relevant to me because I would be using the amp in US initially, but possibly needing to bring it back to Europe with me in the future.

 

 

 

That's a tough one, given the possible requirement of a different input voltage. 

 

The NordAcoustic being Class For is a bit more of a risk in my experience. Some Class D is awesome, while some Class D sucks. If you've done your homework, there's probably nothing to worry about. 

 

On the other hand, I'm willing to bet the Vidar will be very good because of who built it and the tech used. The proof is in the listening once connected to the actual speakers you have. 

 

For what it's worth, ELAC speakers and Alchemy electronics pair very well. If the Schiit is more like Alchemy, that may be a data point. Or not :~)

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1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

That's a tough one, given the possible requirement of a different input voltage. 

 

The NordAcoustic being Class For is a bit more of a risk in my experience. Some Class D is awesome, while some Class D sucks. If you've done your homework, there's probably nothing to worry about. 

 

On the other hand, I'm willing to bet the Vidar will be very good because of who built it and the tech used. The proof is in the listening once connected to the actual speakers you have. 

 

For what it's worth, ELAC speakers and Alchemy electronics pair very well. If the Schiit is more like Alchemy, that may be a data point. Or not :~)

 

I have the AA DDP-1 with DMP-1 and Peter let me audition the DPA-1.  I compared it side by side with the Benchmark AHB2 for a few weeks.  It was very close with the AHB2 being slightly more revealing.  If I give the Vidar a listen I'll be able to go by memory to a certain extent with regards to the DPA-1.  A similar category at the least I suspect.  Now, if the Vidar sounds as good with a pair of monoblocks for $1400 vs the AHB2's $3k price tag that's a no brainer.  It will likely be close but the AHB2's SNR is best in class.  Anyway, specs don't matter, it's all about what sounds good to you right? :) 

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Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

What speakers @Johnseye?

 

Paradigm Persona 3F.  Completely different sound from any of their other lines.  The tweeter and mid is beryllium.  They sound similar to the Focal Sopras but a bit more forward and revealing.  I also have a pair of B&W 803s in a different room so much different sound.

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6 hours ago, franz159 said:

 

Until now I was oriented to buy a NordAcoustic amp.

This was based on more than positive user feedbacks read on various sites (probably also here on Computer Audiophile)

 

The need is in short to power in the appropriate way a pair of "hungry" Elac UB5

https://www.elac.com/product/ub5/

 

Now, knowing that Vidar is finally available and considering that (as mentioned by gmgraves) one single Vidar is probably enough for my need, I am actually re-considering my options.

 

The main remaining reason in favour of the Nord Acoustic MP amp is probably just its flexibility in terms of power input (auto-switching between 115V and 230V) which is somehow relevant to me because I would be using the amp in US initially, but possibly needing to bring it back to Europe with me in the future.

 

 

Hi Franz. 

 

I was in and similar boat to you and today be fair I went for the nord. Measures incredibly well and speaking to Colin on the phone he knows his stuff and genuinely believes in what he does. Subjectively on the sound quality I've not read a bad review, it's really just which flavour do you prefer. Mine will be coming in about a week and right now I don't regret it. I think it's incredible the quality you can get now that a few years ago would have been impossible at these prices. Really good for us and it makes me wonder what's next. How are the big established companies going to keep up.

 

It's always a risk buying untested but in my experience audition in a shop is often pointless, you can't really tell if something is going to work until you get it home with your exact setup and room anyway! 

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2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

IIRC, the AH2B has some proprietary magic for crossover distortion...  or maybe it is not an exclusive license...

 

For what it's worth.  Benchmark's the first and I haven't seen any others with it yet except a headphone amp integrated circuit from Triad.

 

THX ACHROMATIC AUDIO AMPLIFIER TECHNOLOGY

 

The AHB2 is the only amplifier that leverages the patented THX-AAA Technology™. This patented system reduces distortion to vanishingly low levels while enabling several power-saving techniques.

 

Have a look at their technology tab on the AHB2 page

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4 hours ago, trappy said:

A Job INT gets you 175w at 8ohms plus a preamp and a DAC for $1700; and I bet it would acquit itself well against that stack. Sure it's good Schiit, though.

 

I have no desire to buy a product that integrates DAC, preamp, and amp in the same box. Especially at that price point. That thing has digital volume control???? 

 

I suspect that Yggdrasil is quite a bit better than the DAC as it should considering that Yggdrasil is considered a huge bargain at its price point. Freya is an incredible value at its price point. As is Vidar.

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I'm sure the Vidar is a very good amp and a great value. I really admire how Schiit designs with the goal of finding cost effective ways to give buyers a lot of value per dollar spent.

 

There is one issue potential issue buyers should be aware of:

As a monoblock, it is rated for 8 ohms only. 

Acc'd to Jason's blog, this is an actual issue. User with lower impedance speakers or those who want to keep alive the option of a future buy of such speakers will want to look elsewhere.

 

Just as a comparison, the Nord amps don't have this issue. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Vidar looks like a pretty nice amp for the money etc.  OTOH, why is this disruptive?

 

For one comparison I don't see a big huge advantage to the very similarly spec'd, less expesnive, more powerful amplifier like this one here:

 

https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/300

 

Does the microprocessor in this one also cause odd behaviour like the Ragnarok tested by Stereophile?  I would think it does.

And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. 

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5 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

 

I have no desire to buy a product that integrates DAC, preamp, and amp in the same box. Especially at that price point. That thing has digital volume control???? 

 

I suspect that Yggdrasil is quite a bit better than the DAC as it should considering that Yggdrasil is considered a huge bargain at its price point. Freya is an incredible value at its price point. As is Vidar.

Yeah, but have you *heard* it? Volume control is some kind of DSP; it actually sounds remarkably good at low levels. And I run my SACD player through the sole "analogue" input (it's DSP'd too) with no noticeable drop in transparency.

 

 I have gone though a dozen DACs in 6 years, including a couple of heavy hitters. There are some that did *some* things better than this, but overall this amp/DAC combo is the best I've heard. (The closest were an exaSound e22 and Job225 ($5200) and a Naim XS2 and Metrum Musette (about the same.))I'm sure the Schiit combo would be amazing, but there are still even better value propositions if you look.

Mac Mini (+Tidal +Roon) -> WiFi -> Lyngdorf TDAI1120 ->JM Reynaud Lucia (Tellurium Q Black v2)

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A more serious complaint is the lack of outs: so no sub, no headphone amp. Plus if you add a TT it's DSP'd. I take it as a sign to simplify :)

Mac Mini (+Tidal +Roon) -> WiFi -> Lyngdorf TDAI1120 ->JM Reynaud Lucia (Tellurium Q Black v2)

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Well, I didn’t even bother unpacking the second Vidar and sent it back to Schiit. 200 watts per channel into 4 ohms is WAY MORE than enough power for the Tekton Design Double Impact speakers as they are quite efficient . Especially when you factor in the gain from using the tube stage with Freya.

Vidar is dual mono back to the transformer. Power used by one channel does not affect power used by the other. So there really is no significant advantage to running two Vidar amps other than it is cool. The downsides to running two Vidar amps include more tube noise and less granularity in the volume control.

These speakers sound great and I haven’t even played around with room placement or toe-in yet. I can’t wait to hear how good they sound after 200 hours and I get them placed properly.

 

IMG_1373.thumb.JPG.59d5cf9a57bb24846859e341c13386f1.JPG

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19 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Vidar is dual mono back to the transformer. Power used by one channel does not affect power used by the other. So there really is no significant advantage to running two Vidar amps other than it is cool.

 

 

Sharing a transformer means sharing that transformer's primary winding. Which has resistance - hence power used by one channel is going to affect that available to the other. Ye cannae' change the laws of physics!

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56 minutes ago, opus101 said:

 

Sharing a transformer means sharing that transformer's primary winding. Which has resistance - hence power used by one channel is going to affect that available to the other. Ye cannae' change the laws of physics!

 

Here is what Jason wrote for the Vidar FAQ:

  • Power supply to output stage is dual mono—and this is where it matters. Modulation on one supply won’t affect the other.
  • Massive overkill power supply topology—separate regulated HV rails to voltage gain and driver stages (not stacked, so no modulation with P/S load).
  • No caps in the signal path, no DC servo in the signal path, nothing but music in the signal path.
  • Current feedback topology is amazingly fast (-3dB above 1MHz before input filter) and measures well, especially for such a simple stage.
  • Linear supply, not switching supply, no high-frequency noise to deal with.
  • Class AB output stage, not D. Again, no noise or noise-shaping applied.
  • 3 pairs of outputs per channel—1.5x more than typical for this power output.
  • Rated power output doubles into 4 ohms.
  • Microprocessor oversees all important aspects of amplifier operation: current, DC offset, temperature.
  • Protection system uses a “least invasive methodology”—no active devices in signal path, no current limiting, no crowbars—just resistors and relays.  
  • No fan, just a massive amount of heatsinking.
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11 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Here is what Jason wrote for the Vidar FAQ:

  • Power supply to output stage is dual mono—and this is where it matters. Modulation on one supply won’t affect the other.

Guess Jason's prone to marketing hype. The extra pair of output devices could be seen as a feature, I'd see it as a bug unless you've got lower impedance speakers or want to use it bridged. In bridged, 3 pairs of output devices will only be sufficient for the highest impedances, no going below 8ohms.

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21 hours ago, firedog said:

I'm sure the Vidar is a very good amp and a great value. I really admire how Schiit designs with the goal of finding cost effective ways to give buyers a lot of value per dollar spent.

 

There is one issue potential issue buyers should be aware of:

As a monoblock, it is rated for 8 ohms only. 

Acc'd to Jason's blog, this is an actual issue. User with lower impedance speakers or those who want to keep alive the option of a future buy of such speakers will want to look elsewhere.

 

Just as a comparison, the Nord amps don't have this issue. 

Thanks for pointing out the 8 ohm limitation issue. I'm also a big fan of the tremendous value Schiit brings to the table, but I was looking at one of these for  a new system I am putting together for a friend, and it obviously wouldn't pair well with his 4 ohm speakers.

 

JC

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15 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

Thanks for pointing out the 8 ohm limitation issue. I'm also a big fan of the tremendous value Schiit brings to the table, but I was looking at one of these for  a new system I am putting together for a friend, and it obviously wouldn't pair well with his 4 ohm speakers.

 

JC

 

Are his speakers inefficient? Does he need more than 200 watts per channel? I could level my house with just one Vidar!

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Can't wait to hear these things. 

 

My TAD CR1s are 4 ohms. I guess that rules out using two Vidars, due to the 8 ohm limit on a mono pair. Using a single Vidar, I have to use single ended RCA cables. Not a deal breaker, but less than desirable. 

 

Anyone know if a single Vidar is going to be enough to power the CR1s?

 

 

Performance Data

Frequency response: 32Hz to 100kHz

Crossover frequencies: 250Hz and 2kHz

Appropriate amplifier power: 50W to 200W

Sensitivity: 86dB (2.83V @ 1m free space) 

Nominal impedance: 4Ω

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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