More Disruptive Schiit (Vidar)

[gmgraves]

22 hours ago, bobbmd said:

Or how about Legacy Audio HD studio monitors- again made in the USA

 

I am not aware of these speakers. If they aren't isodynamic or electrostatic, I'm probably not interested. I'm not particularly fond of all-cone type speakers (although my desktop nearfield monitors, Napa Acoustics NS-208As are pretty damn good; especially when paired with their matching amp the Napa NA-208A). I don't mind a cone speaker for the bottom end, but it's planners for me above that. 

[esldude]

8 hours ago, jmsent said:

But if this is indeed what's going on, and those cables are operating normally (not shorted) then this raises serious red flags about the design of these amps. Knowing who these engineers are, I find that  hard to believe.  Good grief, the industry has  only been designing solid state amplification since the mid 1960's. Thousands of products  have been made that are unconditionally stable into virtually any load. Something this modern and with this engineering pedigree shouldn't be acting like this. Either you've got a bad amp or Schiit needs to go back to the drawing boards.

That may be going to far.  Spectral amps due to wide bandwidth also had to use interconnects and speaker cables with a bit of care.  Fine design nonetheless.  The Vidar could be as well.  It might be good if Schiit were a little more informative about which situations or parameters might accidentally trigger a shutdown. 

[unbalanced output]

19 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Relax. The Naim NAC A5 speaker cable used is designed to be used with Naim amps which has some special requirements. I bought Mogami W3103 cable without a thought to the specs and it works just fine.

 

Actually when they design their amps they take into account a certain length of their cables as part of the circuit, that's why they end up being so lucky about cable properties. Believe me, the NAC cables are THE most hated thing about Naim, however sooner or later you'll just accept them. 

 

Anyhow, of the Vidar is also picky about cables then the manufacturer should as a minimum give out some guideline about what sort of cables to use, be it in terms of length, brand, properties or whatever. A hit and miss approach to me seems unacceptable as a customer.

[unbalanced output]

13 hours ago, esldude said:

That may be going to far.  Spectral amps due to wide bandwidth also had to use interconnects and speaker cables with a bit of care.  Fine design nonetheless.  The Vidar could be as well.  It might be good if Schiit were a little more informative about which situations or parameters might accidentally trigger a shutdown. 

 

They will probably need some time to figure it out. Not nice that they let it slip into production, but I see nothing wrong with the fact that the amp would have special requirements ( as long as the customers know what to look for).

 

Anyway, I might have some time to test the "shitty" cables this weekend. New Roon server is up and running already.

 

 

[bigjg]

Hello, good thread so far, good info. When do you think some reviews and opinions will be posted? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'm shooting for the end of next week to have something posted. 

[Hoang Nam]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm shooting for the end of next week to have something posted. 

Great

[rando]

@The Computer AudiophileI'm actually encouraged you ran into problems.  Beats the nonsensical sub-atomic nitpicking of obscure sciences and mishmash of white papers being produced.  Will be interesting to see how mundane the issue you uncovered is and how limiting the solution proves.  

 

The more even tempered among us won't exactly be out of our minds livid if, even with their combined design history, their first amp doesn't exactly hit it out of the park.  Tinkering is more than half the fun anyways.

 

 

[bigjg]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm shooting for the end of next week to have something posted. 

Awesome.  Looking forward to your thoughts. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I just tried a third pair of high end speaker cables and had the same issue. All the cables that have "failed" to work with the Vidar have been 8 feet long and connected to my TAD CR1 speakers. 

 

Much more to come. 

[esldude]

12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I just tried a third pair of high end speaker cables and had the same issue. All the cables that have "failed" to work with the Vidar have been 8 feet long and connected to my TAD CR1 speakers. 

 

Much more to come. 

Could you list all cables? Might be possible to see if it's capacitance or inductance causing the problem.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, esldude said:

Could you list all cables? Might be possible to see if it's capacitance or inductance causing the problem.

 

Didn't work with Vidar and TAD CR1

Wire World Platinum Eclipse 7 (8 feet)

Kimber Monocle X (8 feet)

AudioQuest Redwood (bi-wire) (8 feet)

 

Worked with TAD CR1

Monster Cable Z2 (Z Series) (15 feet)

 

[Speed Racer]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Didn't work with Vidar and TAD CR1

Wire World Platinum Eclipse 7 (8 feet)

Kimber Monocle X (8 feet)

AudioQuest Redwood (bi-wire) (8 feet)

 

Worked with TAD CR1

Monster Cable Z2 (Z Series) (15 feet)

 

 

Do other speakers have the same problem?

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Do other speakers have the same problem?

Will be connecting some in a few minutes.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Update

 

Speakers

https://www.focal.com/en/home-audio/high-fidelity-speakers/sopra/bookshelf-speakers/sopra-ndeg1

 

 

Didn't work with Vidar and Focal Sopra N°1

Wire World Platinum Eclipse 7 (8 feet)

Kimber Monocle X (8 feet) (note: The amps didn't shut down with this cable, but they produced the very audible distortion that is heard with the other cables before the amps shut down while using those cables. Thus, still not functional with this cable)

AudioQuest Redwood (bi-wire) (8 feet)

 

Worked with with Vidar and Focal Sopra N°1

Monster Cable Z2 (Z Series) (15 feet)

[Johnseye]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Update

 

Speakers

https://www.focal.com/en/home-audio/high-fidelity-speakers/sopra/bookshelf-speakers/sopra-ndeg1

 

 

Didn't work with Vidar and Focal Sopra N°1

Wire World Platinum Eclipse 7 (8 feet)

Kimber Monocle X (8 feet) (note: The amps didn't shut down with this cable, but they produced the very audible distortion that is heard with the other cables before the amps shut down while using those cables. Thus, still not functional with this cable)

AudioQuest Redwood (bi-wire) (8 feet)

 

Worked with with Vidar and Focal Sopra N°1

Monster Cable Z2 (Z Series) (15 feet)

 

Good grief.  I was excited about trying this amp out.  8ft is a pretty standard speaker cable length, and what I use.  How does something like this slip past QA.

 

Thanks for doing these tests Chris.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just communicated with Schiit. The amps are going back for testing. 

[rlow]

26 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Just communicated with Schiit. The amps are going back for testing. 

Yep that's the next logical step - has to be a defect, that's not normal.

[rlow]

That's a shame though as I was looking forward to your review...will have to wait a bit longer I guess.

[Speed Racer]

30 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Just communicated with Schiit. The amps are going back for testing. 

 

Are you sending them a cable that didn't work for them to test with?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Speed Racer said:

 

Are you sending them a cable that didn't work for them to test with?

 

Not as of right now.

[esldude]

Guess it is a moot point for now.  The Kimber has plenty of parallel capacitance so I doubt that was it.  The short cables make have too little series inductance and are allowing an amp oscillation at an ultrasonic frequency. 

 

I was going to suggest putting a .1 microfarad capacitor in series with a 5 to 10 ohm resistor.  Then putting that across the amp leads.  That might damp out an ultrasonic resonance without changing much else. 

[rlow]

I just think there has to be a defect, that's not normal...

[The Computer Audiophile]

Yeah, we'll see. It happens on both left and right channels. 

[Speed Racer]

It doesn't make sense to send them back in to be checked and not include at least one problematic cable. You are planning on having them send you back another pair, right?