microRendu + isoRegen or ultraRendu or V1.4 update?

[jaaptina]

These are times full of choices 

I've got a microRendu with LPS-1 and I'm very happy with the upgrade in soundquality it gave me. 

 

Now there are several options to upgrade without spending too much money at once:

1) upgrade the microRendu to ultraRendu.

2) add the isoRegen and keep the microRendu

3) update the microRendu hardware to V1.4 (with better clock)

 

Investment in the three option won't differ much. Because there is so much praise for the isoRegen I leaning to this option. However in that case I have to power isoRegen or microRendu with the iFi iPower. The update to V1.4 is not my favorite option because shipment costs to Europe.

 

It's a bit early to ask about experiences with ultraRendu but it won't be long now. 

 

Any thoughts?

 

[firedog]

if you can only do one of the above, wait till the first batch of uRendu's is out and you will be able to hear from some owners who also have a IsoRegen about which they think is the more bang for the buck. 

[BigAlMc]

I suspect that option 2 (adding ISO Regen to your existing MR) will add more than replacing MR with UR. 

 

But obviously that's only "suspect" because we won't know for sure until the UR comes out and people try. 

 

FWIW I tried MR on iFI so I could use my IR on my LPS-1 and it was pretty good. 

 

I ended up buying another LPS-1 but that's another story / another nervosa episode 

 

And not to make life more difficult but does all the praise the SMS-200ultra is getting, perhaps add that as option 4?

 

If you're keen to pull the trigger ASAP I'd suggest the IR. If you're happy to wait then I agree with Firedog and wait for the feedback when the UR comes out. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[davide256]

Option 1 should be the biggest improvement, better clock, hw improvement. Option 3 is just SW maintenance 

[BigAlMc]

1 minute ago, davide256 said:

Option 1 should be the biggest improvemen, better clock, hw improvement. Option 3 is just SW maintenance 

 

Sorry @davide256 but how can you know this based on the fairly limited details Sonore have shared about the UltraRendu? On paper it's an improvement but until we get our hands on it we won't know for sure how it sounds. And how good it sounds versa a Microrendu with ISO Regen combo. 

 

I agree option 3 is the least likely best option. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[jaaptina]

Best advice will be to wait until after the summer holidays. Hopefully the first ultraRendu batch will be out by then. 

[k-man]

Best to take the plunge and go straight for the UltraRendu. I have read some of John Swenson's explanations to the improvements over the microRendu, and Sonore are keeping tight-lipped about the finer details. The Iso Regen's Galvanic Isolation properties will greatly benefit a lot of Computer Audio setups including the majority of NAAs e.g Raspberry Pi's, and even the microRendu, but I reckon UltraRendu itself will not need this additional benefit.

 

Me myself, I chose the cheaper path to sell the microRendu and used it to fund Iso Regen + Allo USBridge. This gives me some Linux freedom from SonicOrbitor, and I'm done with the continuous upgrade path. Or just waiting for Ethernet options in a year or more 

[Dev]

Great question and I want to know the answer as well. Given that not much information is revealed on UR (apart from the better clocking on the mainboard) I suspect the ISO regen for its GI properties will benefit after the UR as well, unless the same GI properties has been implemented there.

[JohnSwenson]

10 hours ago, davide256 said:

Option 1 should be the biggest improvement, better clock, hw improvement. Option 3 is just SW maintenance 

Option 3 is NOT just software. It is the original microRendu board with the much better clock. Its a board swap, you send in your original microRendu, pay the difference between an original microRendu and the ultraRendu and you get sent back a new board which is the same as the original except it has the much better clock.

 

I have already made a post which covers all the changes between the microRendu and the ultraRendu, I don't know how much more I could do without publishing the board files (which is not going to happen).

 

Both the microRendu and the ultraRendu when powered from a LPS-1 are already galvanically isolated (unless you are using Shielded Ethernet cable which electrically connects the shield).

 

Option #3 is significantly less expensive than the others, whether spending the extra money for the other options will give an SQ increase that is worthwhile enough to you, is the big question, and I can't answer that. I don't have any system right now and probably won't for a while.

 

John S.

[asdf1000]

This is the post John is referring to, I think, if others haven't seen it:

 

 

 

[rickca]

11 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Option #3 is significantly less expensive than the others, whether spending the extra money for the other options will give an SQ increase that is worthwhile enough to you, is the big question, and I can't answer that.

Exactly.  I already have an ISO REGEN, so I'm probably going to get the microRendu clock upgrade and try a combination of options 2 and 3.

 

I currently use the microRendu and the ISO REGEN on two different systems, but I'd like to see if they work well together.

 

I really don't expect anyone to do both options 1 and 3, so it's going to be difficult to get user feedback on how the ultraRendu compares with the microRendu clock upgrade.  

 

 

[Dev]

30 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

This is the post John is referring to, I think, if others haven't seen it:

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link. It was really helpful. On the ultraRendu thread, Jesus said apart from the new oscillator, he is not prepared to reveal more info.

 

Anyway, looking at the newer ultraRendu design choices in that thread, it doesn't appear the microRendu h/w update to 1.4 will be equivalent to the ultraRendu.

 

JS, how much of the ISO Regen properties are embedded into the UR design ? Earlier the Regen was redundant with the microRendu. Will it be the same in this case as well ?

 

 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

I have already made a post which covers all the changes between the microRendu and the ultraRendu, I don't know how much more I could do without publishing the board files (which is not going to happen).

 

 

Thanks. I read the post now.

 

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

Both the microRendu and the ultraRendu when powered from a LPS-1 are already galvanically isolated (unless you are using Shielded Ethernet cable which electrically connects the shield).

 

 

Which Ethernet cable is recommended ? I am currently using a BJC Cat6a.

 

[kennyb123]

19 hours ago, jaaptina said:

Now there are several options to upgrade without spending too much money at once:

1) upgrade the microRendu to ultraRendu.

2) add the isoRegen and keep the microRendu

3) update the microRendu hardware to V1.4 (with better clock)

 

 

I've already done #2 but I think I may also go with #3.  

 

What's been blowing my mind tonight is the improvement from ditching my USB cable in favor of another USPCB.  I am now running microRendu > USPCB > ISO REGEN > USPCB > Chord Hugo TT. 

 

It's not clear that I'd be able to make the ultraRendu work in the same configuration due to physical constraints.  It would be difficult to go back to my USB cable after hearing the benefits from eliminating it in favor of the USPCB, so I'm inclined to stick with the microRendu form factor.

 

It almost seems like one can infer from John's post above that the 1.4 upgrade might make the ISO REGEN less necessary.  So the microRendu with the 1.4 upgrade connected to a DAC with a USPCB might very well be the biggest bang for the buck upgrade of the three options.

[flummoxe]

1 hour ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I've already done #2 but I think I may also go with #3.  

 

What's been blowing my mind tonight is the improvement from ditching my USB cable in favor of another USPCB.  I am now running microRendu > USPCB > ISO REGEN > USPCB > Chord Hugo TT. 

 

It's not clear that I'd be able to make the ultraRendu work in the same configuration due to physical constraints.  It would be difficult to go back to my USB cable after hearing the benefits from eliminating it in favor of the USPCB, so I'm inclined to stick with the microRendu form factor.

 

It almost seems like one can infer from John's post above that the 1.4 upgrade might make the ISO REGEN less necessary.  So the microRendu with the 1.4 upgrade connected to a DAC with a USPCB might very well be the biggest bang for the buck upgrade of the three options.

 

Hi Kennyb123,

 

That's really interesting as I also use the microRendu with a HUGO TT and looking to buy the ISO REGEN.

 

Did you use the standard or 90 degree USPCB? Any chance of a picture as I'd like to see the reality and if other inputs are blocked?

 

Thanks

[k-man]

I really don't get why anyone would like to cycle through all the 3 options. They don't differ that much, and if anyone chooses option 2, they will have to consider powering both devices with a separate quality power supplies (i.e. LPS-1/iPower/P Hynes SR4). 

[kennyb123]

6 hours ago, flummoxe said:

That's really interesting as I also use the microRendu with a HUGO TT and looking to buy the ISO REGEN.

 

Did you use the standard or 90 degree USPCB? Any chance of a picture as I'd like to see the reality and if other inputs are blocked?

 

I use the standard USPCB.  The photo is taken from the back of the Hugo TT with the ISO REGEN attached.  The TT is raised because it's sitting on three Stillpoints Ultra Mini.

[davide256]

10 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Option 3 is NOT just software. It is the original microRendu board with the much better clock. Its a board swap, you send in your original microRendu, pay the difference between an original microRendu and the ultraRendu and you get sent back a new board which is the same as the original except it has the much better clock.

 

I have already made a post which covers all the changes between the microRendu and the ultraRendu, I don't know how much more I could do without publishing the board files (which is not going to happen).

 

Both the microRendu and the ultraRendu when powered from a LPS-1 are already galvanically isolated (unless you are using Shielded Ethernet cable which electrically connects the shield).

 

Option #3 is significantly less expensive than the others, whether spending the extra money for the other options will give an SQ increase that is worthwhile enough to you, is the big question, and I can't answer that. I don't have any system right now and probably won't for a while.

 

John S.

Apologies John, I misread #3 as just the $20 SW update

[austinpop]

On 7/5/2017 at 6:30 AM, jaaptina said:

3) update the microRendu hardware to V1.4 (with better clock)

 

Apologies - I have not been following the ins and outs of the *Rendu saga.

 

Leaving aside the ISO-Regen for the moment...

 

Is option 3) above a way for mR owners to preserve their investment, allowing them to upgrade their mR to "close to, but not quite equal to" Ultrarendu status?

 

I am also assuming a new buyer - not burdened with an existing mR to worry about - should just buy an Ultrarendu? Rather than

• buy a standard mR, and then
• pay to upgrade to 1.4?

[firedog]

44 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Apologies - I have not been following the ins and outs of the *Rendu saga.

 

Leaving aside the ISO-Regen for the moment...

 

Is option 3) above a way for mR owners to preserve their investment, allowing them to upgrade their mR to "close to, but not quite equal to" Ultrarendu status?

 

I am also assuming a new buyer - not burdened with an existing mR to worry about - should just buy an Ultrarendu? Rather than

• buy a standard mR, and then
• pay to upgrade to 1.4?

No one who knows anything (Jesus, John) has led us to believe at mR 1.4  is "close to" ultraRendu status.

The 1.4 is a change of one part.

 

From what we know the ultra is better clocks, better regulators,other changes, and a whole new board that contains them. I'm not sure how you get from that to an assumption of "close to". Doesn't sound like it to me.

 

[austinpop]

1 minute ago, firedog said:

No one who knows anything (Jesus, John) has led us to believe at mR 1.4  is "close to" ultraRendu status.

The 1.4 is a change of one part.

 

From what we know the ultra is better clocks, better regulators,other changes, and a whole new board that contains them. I'm not sure how you get from that to an assumption of "close to". Doesn't sound like it to me.

 

 

Exactly - please reread my comments.

 

I was asking - not asserting!

[firedog]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Exactly - please reread my comments.

 

I was asking - not asserting!

And  I was just answering. 

[ElviaCaprice]

9 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

 

It almost seems like one can infer from John's post above that the 1.4 upgrade might make the ISO REGEN less necessary.  So the microRendu with the 1.4 upgrade connected to a DAC with a USPCB might very well be the biggest bang for the buck upgrade of the three options.

 

Might be just the ISO Regen, drop the mR altogether, use two USPCB and go direct from the Server USB is the biggest bang for the buck upgrade of all the options?

[kennyb123]

57 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

Might be just the ISO Regen, drop the mR altogether, use two USPCB and go direct from the Server USB is the biggest bang for the buck upgrade of all the options?

 

I think it depends on the server and how it's powered.  If the OP doesn't already have a very good linear supply powering their server, I still think option #3 will be the biggest bang for the buck.  

 

Also, I've yet to see a report of a Mac Mini connected to a DAC over USB being superior to a mR - particularly a mR that's been configured via a bridged ethernet.  I think one needs a sufficiently optimized PC for what you suggest to a better value than option #3.  

 

When I send my mR off to be upgraded, I may try to see if I can configure things as you suggest.  It'll be interesting to hear what happens when I first make the change - and even more interesting to hear what happens when the upgraded mR is put in.  My Mac Mini is powered by a JS-2.

[flummoxe]

On 06/07/2017 at 3:52 PM, kennyb123 said:

 

I use the standard USPCB.  The photo is taken from the back of the Hugo TT with the ISO REGEN attached.  The TT is raised because it's sitting on three Stillpoints Ultra Mini.

 

Thanks for that.