$86 DSD DAC rivals dacs much more expensive SMSL iDEA USB DAC

[beerandmusic]

34 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

Your reasoning makes no sense about not being able to discern the difference between DAC's on pricing.

You mean you don't understand my view.  That is fine, i don't understand other's views all the time either.

 

Let me paint another picture.

There are probably 10 thousand different models of cd players.

A 10 year old cd player that was a "HI-FI" grade one that costs $2K in it's day, probably does not sound better than a $50 Sony blu-ray player playing a SACD.  There will probably be dead-beats that will argue their CD only device sounds better than playing a SACD on a $50 player....so they keep their $2K cd player instead of selling it and investing that $2k MORE IN BETTER SPEAKERS.

 

I would prefer to sell my $2K dac today, and play my dsd files on a $300 dsd dac and make more room for speakers such as some ATC speakers.

 

Now if i was rich and could afford all the hardware i wanted, i would probably have several dacs that I could switch between.....that or more likely I would find a more expensive hobby that I enjoyed more...maybe traveling or flying or who knows what i would do i f i had bottomless pockets.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Back on track people :~)

[esldude]

35 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Back on track people :~)

Yeah. 

 

A thread about a DAC that costs less than $100, and also measures well (which honestly will have to mean it sounds pretty okay even if you don't go by measurements only.) Should be good news to many people.  Those who can't afford more, but value good sound for the music they love.  Those who value good sounding music with needs for a secondary or office or vacationing system that can get a big slice of it for small change.  Those who may want to use digital crossovers and feed a separate DAC per driver.  There are others.  A sub-$100 DAC doesn't need to be a world beater.  One that heavily outperforms expectations for such a price is good news. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

It's a very good thing Dennis. 

[christopher3393]

Reminds me of a song:

 

 

[beerandmusic]

12 hours ago, mmerrill99 said:

Ok, thanks - that's a good specific for comparative evaluation.

That's exactly one of the main characteristics I would say exists with quality DACs & although I don't have a feel for the level of difference between NAD & Macintosh, in this regard, you might be wrong to expect the same HUGE jump as when systems get better, the improvements are incremental rather than quantum

Just curious, what dac did you upgrade from and to where you experienced big jumps in depth...I admit i haven't tried any dacs more than about $1500...so maybe I needed to try a more expensive dac to gain depth, but If I already have depth now with cheap dac (gained with better amp), maybe it is possible to gain even "more noticeable depth" by trying a "subjectively better dac"....but I was pretty much in "awe" with amp upgrade with cheap dac...the depth is pretty amazing...not sure it is even possible to gain more depth....I have heard 100K systems at trade shows that don't seem to have same depth as i have experienced...the speakers may kick ass in sound, but don't hear more depth.  At least for me, I believe for me to obtain another "next level", i will need to upgrade my speakers significantly. 

[Phil A]

For me down the road, it is certainly something to consider for my desk top system.  I'll probably (down the road) be looking at integrated amps/DACs to drive the speakers.  Right now I use the analog outs of the sound card (Asus Xonar DX).

[jabbr]

I've one on order but looks like the shipping time from China will make the other 1% of my music "oldies"  

[jabbr]

I received mine. So far it plays PCM and sounds great. Hopefully I can fiddle around and get DSD working in linux driver ... the driver is hit or miss, often get "buzzing" sound which goes away with unplug/replug. HQPlayer tells me it is accepting PCM 768k... very promising.

[wushuliu]

Actually the XU208 Xmos is likely the star here, but as is typical there's a never-ending desire to focus on the dac/no difference hoopla. Not unlike the analogy of the car keys and lamp post.

[jabbr]

Plan to use this in the car with the iPhone -> Onkyo player ...

[Matias]

I have one and I love it. Using with IEMs and my Win10 notebook driverless it is clean and clear without USB filters at all. Very nice resolution and tonality. Even played my big Audeze phones quite well for its size. Android is a hot and miss thing as some phones are incompatible and won't work at all (buzzing sound with my Moto X Style).

 

Some people have reported that the Idea is better than Audioquest Dragonfly Black and Red. I believe the Idea is the current best buy of USB dongle dac+amps.

 

Would love to see/hear how it would fare as a DAC with an external preamp and amp but I have no proper cable to test this.

 

It was even cheaper on Massdrop but I got mine on Amazon. Highly recommend.

[wushuliu]

Got one of these. It is good as dragonfly red stock. With Jplay the xu208 allows wider range of settings that takes performance past the red. Having used xu208 and 216 modules before I believe that is what makes this sound so good and not typical sabre dac like dragonfly etc.

[Ajax]

Hi All,

 

I just received my SMSL DAC in Sydney and have spent the past hour comparing it with my Benchmark DAC 1 HDR. The Benchmark came onto the market in 2010 and was universally acclaimed as an excellent DAC for both it's measurements and sound quality. It originally cost about US$1900, being around US$2200 today. The SMSL cost US$86 or about 25 times less expensive.

 

My testing procedure was very simplistic. I simultaneously connected both ports of my Mac Air to the Benchmark, which I used as a preamp. One port was connected directly to the Benchmark's USB input (thereby using the Benchmark's DAC) and the other via the SMSL into the Analogue input of the Benchmark (thereby using the DAC of the SMSL). The Benchmark was then connected to a Nord Hypex stereo power amp driving a pair of ATOHM GT1 stand mount speakers. 

 

I listened to a selection of Jack Johnson (16/44.1), Keb' Mo' (24/88.2) and Fleetwood Mac (24/192) switching between the two audio zones with Roon, System Preferences and Audio MIDI.

 

My comparison procedure was obviously extremely simplistic (no blind testing or exact volume setting) so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt and assume it is subject to all the expectation bias we humans can muster. However, I really struggled to hear any discernible difference between the two systems at mid to high volumes but at very high (uncomfortable) volumes the SMSL started to show signs of distortion. I was seriously impressed with the clarity and musicality of this inexpensive little gem. I was tapping my foot along to Keb' Mo's "Give me what you got" of his The Door album.

 

Connected to a pair of inexpensive active speakers such as the JBL LSR305 speakers (<US$300) or powered speakers such as the Audio Engine 5 the SMSL will provide an extremely affordable system suitable for small room or desktop listening. I would also venture that it could hold its own in a more expensive system.

 

At this price it is a no brainer - highly recommended!

 

All the best,

 

Ajax

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wushuliu]

Well the SMSL IDEA itself has already been undercut in price: The Sabaj DA2 is available for only $63 and appears to be the exact same dac.

 

But it gets even better: The Sabaj DA3 just came out. A BALANCED Dac with XU208, dual ES9018 and two clocks... for only $96. That's insane. Sounds damn good too. Better low level detail and what sounds like slightly cleaner/lower distortion than the Idea.

[beerandmusic]

On 7/12/2017 at 6:09 PM, jabbr said:

I received mine. So far it plays PCM and sounds great. Hopefully I can fiddle around and get DSD working in linux driver ... the driver is hit or miss, often get "buzzing" sound which goes away with unplug/replug. HQPlayer tells me it is accepting PCM 768k... very promising.

nvm

[arcman]

Any Dac can sound good. I compared the internal dac of the Bluesound Node2 with my 7 year old Peachtree Nova pre using 24/96 stream from Qobuz. The newer Bluesound had a slight more air and wider soundstage. However, the older dac sounded great as well. an iphone connected to a analog ins of an expensive, great sounding system will still sound great. With that said, i do believe as you go up the food chain, you will hear mprovements or changes when comparing. Just like cables, it depends on the other components. A $3000 interconnect is not going to show much improvent over $10 ones on a simple A/V receiver feeding in ceiling speakers. 

 

 

***excuse grammer. Typing on ipad

[shadowlight]

I just picked up Sabaj Da3 and running into issues with DSD playback with HQPlayer.  Did anyone get it working with DSD?  If yes, what did you have to do?

[witchdoctor]

On 6/24/2017 at 2:05 PM, Speed Racer said:

 

Yes, we have heard this all before. If you are happy with cheap DACs, then buy cheap DACs. After listening to and owning some quality DACs, I can't stand cheap Delta Sigma DACs.

 

If you can't hear the difference between cheap Delta Sigma DACs (regardless of DAC chip used) and the better more expensive DACs, I can't trust anything you hear so your advice is worthless to me.

Why do you feel that quality has a relationship to price when it comes to a gadget like a DAC? I think it is more of a synergy with your files and your component and doesn't necessarily mean the more you pay the more SQ you get.

[witchdoctor]

On 6/24/2017 at 7:43 PM, beerandmusic said:

You mean you don't understand my view.  That is fine, i don't understand other's views all the time either.

 

Let me paint another picture.

There are probably 10 thousand different models of cd players.

A 10 year old cd player that was a "HI-FI" grade one that costs $2K in it's day, probably does not sound better than a $50 Sony blu-ray player playing a SACD.  There will probably be dead-beats that will argue their CD only device sounds better than playing a SACD on a $50 player....so they keep their $2K cd player instead of selling it and investing that $2k MORE IN BETTER SPEAKERS.

 

I would prefer to sell my $2K dac today, and play my dsd files on a $300 dsd dac and make more room for speakers such as some ATC speakers.

 

Now if i was rich and could afford all the hardware i wanted, i would probably have several dacs that I could switch between.....that or more likely I would find a more expensive hobby that I enjoyed more...maybe traveling or flying or who knows what i would do i f i had bottomless pockets.

 

Once you have the speakers and amps you want then you go to the source for better SQ, that is the time to go DAC fishing.
I want the new IFi Black Label MQA DAC when it comes out. But I am already happy with everything downstream. 

[hdo]

Micro$oft is preparing ARM version Windows targeted for Snapdragon 835 SoC chips. The amazing is that 835 chip supports not only 32bits 384khz but also DSD. Once you get ARM windows computers, you won't be needing external DACs for most users. DACs under $200 will hit hard. They are likely disappear.

[Speed Racer]

7 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

Why do you feel that quality has a relationship to price when it comes to a gadget like a DAC? I think it is more of a synergy with your files and your component and doesn't necessarily mean the more you pay the more SQ you get.

 

I never said there is a relationship. I don't think that the more a DAC costs the better sound you will get. What I do think is that better the DACs sound,  the more it will cost relative to cheap Sigma Delta DACs. That is a hug difference in logic.

 

In other words:

 

Not all expensive DACs have great sound quality. But, all of the best sounding DACs cost a lot more than cheap Sigma Delta DACs.

 

 

[hdo]

DAC is output-only sound card. It is made of processor, digital-to-analog converter chip and amplifier chip. DAC manufacturers cannot make such chips. They buy from same chips from same chip companies. They should sound similarly. The cost of DAC should not exceed several hundreds dollars. DACs expensive more than several hundred dollars are not based on quality of sound. It's something else! Such as hypes, etc.

[mourip]

 

4 hours ago, hdo said:

DAC is output-only sound card. It is made of processor, digital-to-analog converter chip and amplifier chip. DAC manufacturers cannot make such chips. They buy from same chips from same chip companies. They should sound similarly. The cost of DAC should not exceed several hundreds dollars. DACs expensive more than several hundred dollars are not based on quality of sound. It's something else! Such as hypes, etc.

 

If all DACs were built exactly the same using exactly the same chips you might be right but of course that is not the case. Better sounding/performing DACs put a lot of money into power supplies and isolation, advanced filtering, different analog output circuits, circuit board layout, better implementations of USB input, research and development etc..

 

I wish that my DAC had only cost a few hundred dollars. It does however sound better to me that others I owned that cost more.

 

Sometimes you can get lucky and find good "bang-for-the buck" sound but mostly you get what you pay for.

 

If all DACs sound the same to you then you are lucky and I would definitely suggest buying the cheapest one possible.

[shadowlight]

I got DSD working on Da3 after resetting all the cables and power cycling the dac.