$86 DSD DAC rivals dacs much more expensive SMSL iDEA USB DAC

[beerandmusic]

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html#more

[Ralf11]

huh!  so I don't need a Chord Dave's Not Here Man DAC?

 

that would save a lot of bucks for beer and music

[beerandmusic]

save it for a better amp

[rickca]

23 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

save it for a better amp

Hey, you've never made that point before. 

[esldude]

They have more than one good model.

 

http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bargain-dac-review-s-m-s-l-mini-dac-sanskritt-6th.1728/

[beerandmusic]

I have had a dozen dacs from $100 to $1500 including dacs from teac, sony, schiit, marantz, ifi, and a few others...none really sounded dramatically different, and to be honest, imho the best sounding to me was when i was doing dlna dsd from an embedded sony blu-ray player.  I even had schiit multibit...nothing was dramatic, or one i could say clearly was a winner over all others for all media...i never understood all the hoopla about dacs in trying to get to the next level.  My best "next level" results were from using better speakers, using EQ and AMPLIFIER upgrade.  Dacs never took it to a next level for me.  Anyway, so i sold all my dacs to wait until i learned more, read more, and wait for marketing to technology to bring down prices, and re-think the dac after over a year of trying to get to next level with a dac...it never happenned for me.  Anyway, to hold me off for awhile longer here, i am just going to buy one of these $86 toys using the relatively new (jan 2016) dac chip es9018.  I may consider gustard, sonica, or similar using 9028 or 9038...but still think they will get to $300-$500 price range before long...until then i will be content with this $86 bugger.

 

[ElviaCaprice]

If you prefer coloration in your music, then your probably right to be content with any DAC.  But if you want precision and detail, then you need to move up in class a bit.  But thats not all, you still need the rest of the system to integrate properly to achieve that sound signature you desire.  Power supplies are extremely important, almost as much as the components themselves.  Clocking?  I don't know yet, verdict and discovery still out on that one, at least for high end.  It just might be that power is the main culprit.

[Speed Racer]

1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

I have had a dozen dacs from $100 to $1500 including dacs from teac, sony, schiit, marantz, ifi, and a few others...none really sounded dramatically different, and to be honest, imho the best sounding to me was when i was doing dlna dsd from an embedded sony blu-ray player.  I even had schiit multibit...nothing was dramatic, or one i could say clearly was a winner over all others for all media...i never understood all the hoopla about dacs in trying to get to the next level.  My best "next level" results were from using better speakers, using EQ and AMPLIFIER upgrade.  Dacs never took it to a next level for me.  Anyway, so i sold all my dacs to wait until i learned more, read more, and wait for marketing to technology to bring down prices, and re-think the dac after over a year of trying to get to next level with a dac...it never happenned for me.  Anyway, to hold me off for awhile longer here, i am just going to buy one of these $86 toys using the relatively new (jan 2016) dac chip es9018.  I may consider gustard, sonica, or similar using 9028 or 9038...but still think they will get to $300-$500 price range before long...until then i will be content with this $86 bugger.

 

 

Yes, we have heard this all before. If you are happy with cheap DACs, then buy cheap DACs. After listening to and owning some quality DACs, I can't stand cheap Delta Sigma DACs.

 

If you can't hear the difference between cheap Delta Sigma DACs (regardless of DAC chip used) and the better more expensive DACs, I can't trust anything you hear so your advice is worthless to me.

[Dragonfyr]

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

 

Yes, we have heard this all before. If you are happy with cheap DACs, then buy cheap DACs. After listening to and owning some quality DACs, I can't stand cheap Delta Sigma DACs.

 

If you can't hear the difference between cheap Delta Sigma DACs (regardless of DAC chip used) and the better more expensive DACs, I can't trust anything you hear so your advice is worthless to me.

If only audiophiles had the guts to trust their ears in an audio evaluation. Bravo! Must see the device, know it, expect a difference or two, touch it for a few weeks, until you can hear a difference.

 

It's one of the reasons golden-ears can only hear properly if they can see the audio device. If they can't...

 

If you can't trust your ears only without having to see it, your expectations, the reviews, "cheap DACs", "Sigma Delta" (the mere mention can give an experienced audiophile fits) or the wifes feedback etc, then no one should trust anything you have to say on the matter as your comments are anything but impartial and are highly biased. Worthless to the general public. 

[Speed Racer]

First off, I am not an audiophile. I am a music lover. I use audio equipment to listen to music. Not the other way around.

 

I do trust my ears. They are the only ears that matter to me. Unfortunately, as I can't listen to every device myself, I sometimes I have to rely on other people's ears to give me an idea of what I might want to listen too and evaluate for myself. One needs to be careful as to who's ears you trust.

 

If you cannot tell the difference between cheap Sigma Delta DACs and the more expensive quality DACs out there, your ears are different than mine. I can do this easily with songs I know well. I can hear the difference in sound stage, clarity, detail, and timbre. There are differences in the fullness and musicality that are harder to describe. Needless to say, the differences are there and I can hear them.

 

If any DAC works well for you, great, you get save a lot money. 

[AnotherSpin]

43 minutes ago, Dragonfyr said:

If only audiophiles had the guts to trust their ears in an audio evaluation. Bravo! Must see the device, know it, expect a difference or two, touch it for a few weeks, until you can hear a difference.

 

It's one of the reasons golden-ears can only hear properly if they can see the audio device. If they can't...

 

If you can't trust your ears only without having to see it, your expectations, the reviews, "cheap DACs", "Sigma Delta" (the mere mention can give an experienced audiophile fits) or the wifes feedback etc, then no one should trust anything you have to say on the matter as your comments are anything but impartial and are highly biased. Worthless to the general public. 

 

Are you going to post here your own unbiased review of new Chinese audio wonder? Can not wait until it happen.

[Dragonfyr]

Quote

If you cannot tell the difference between cheap Sigma Delta DACs and the more expensive quality DACs out there, your ears are different than mine.

If you believe in the sophomoric position that price is a reliable indicator of performance then yes, you are an audiophile. Clearly you have a strong bias towards "cheap" vs "expensive" DACs.

Listen to them blind, without staring at them, then let's see if you can tell them apart, purely by sound. I don't think you can. Audiophiles that like to brag about their hearing usually fail miserably when they have to rely on only their ears to listen to sound. 

[Dragonfyr]

26 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

Are you going to post here your own unbiased review of new Chinese audio wonder? Can not wait until it happen.

No such thing as unbiased.

[Speed Racer]

1 minute ago, Dragonfyr said:

If you believe in the sophomoric position that price is a reliable indicator of performance then yes, you are an audiophile. Clearly you have a strong bias towards "cheap" vs "expensive" DACs.

Listen to them blind, without staring at them, then let's see if you can tell them apart, purely by sound. I don't think you can. 

 

Of course, all DACs sound the same! What was I thinking!!

[Dragonfyr]

Just now, Speed Racer said:

 

Of course, all DACs sound the same! What was I thinking!!

I never said all DACs sound the same. Likely a figment of your imagination just like your alleged "DAC sound".

[Speed Racer]

If I can't tell them apart, they must sound the same......

[Speed Racer]

7 minutes ago, Dragonfyr said:

If you believe in the sophomoric position that price is a reliable indicator of performance then yes, you are an audiophile. Clearly you have a strong bias towards "cheap" vs "expensive" DACs.

 

Please note that I said "more expensive" and "quality". Not just more expensive.....

 

Of course, that would ruin your narrative....

[AnotherSpin]

28 minutes ago, Dragonfyr said:

No such thing as unbiased.

 

Ok, it will work your way. Please post your honest review. If you don't mind.

[beerandmusic]

^^^ i never said i couldn't tell differences...i simply said none were dramatic, and none were "notably" better.  Listening to DSD dlna though an embedded blu-ray sounded different than playing a pcm on a more expensive dac....My point is that none sounded dramatically better where i would say "better" at a "higher level".  When i upped the ante on an amp. it was a whole new level. 

Some people say gustard sounds better than a $2200 yggi.  Some say a gungir sounds better than an yggi.  Some say yggi sounds bettter than auralic vega....it is all subjective.  If someone can say gungir>yggi and some say yggi>aurilic..then likely someone will say gungir > auralic.  No one can argue that i say streaming DSD though a sony >pcm though gungir..

It's all subjective, so if it's so subjective where some will say a $600 dac sounds better than a $2200 dac, and some say a $300 dac sounds better than a $600 dac......it makes sense not to spend the $ if it doesn't float your boat.  I was perfectly willing to spend $2500 on a dac if i thought it took me to the next level...it did not.   I personally believe there is a lot of bias once someone spends $$ on a dac, where they will downtalk newer cheaper dacs....Is it possible a ES9038 will sound better than, or as good as older technology?  Or it's not possible because it is cheaper?  For that fact no equipment that cost less can sound better than something that costs more....There is no need for new technology or mass marketing and volume manufacturing, because whatever "camp"  someone is in, they talk down others....yawn.

[mmerrill99]

9 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

.. I was perfectly willing to spend $2500 on a dac if i thought it took me to the next level...it did not.   ..

What are the sonic characteristics you would define as the "next level"?

[beerandmusic]

1 minute ago, mmerrill99 said:

What are the sonic characteristics you would define as the "next level"?

For me, probably the most significant is depth.  Upgrading from a $600 NAD amp to a $3K Mcintosh amp was a HUGE jump.  It was like night and day.  There were so many differences and the differences were extraordinaire and a whole different level.  No DAC did 1/10 of what the amp upgrade did for me...or speakers.  I can hear slight marginal differences between dacs, but not on the same level.  None offered more depth or sense of separation of instruments like amplifiers or speaker upgrades.

[beerandmusic]

I will also add that playing original DSD recorded accoustic guitar music in DSD tracks though audiogate or DSD via DLNA sound better through just about any cheap DSD dac than through more expensive PCM only dacs...perhaps it's the extra conversion that is necessary. 

[mmerrill99]

3 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

For me, probably the most significant is depth.  Upgrading from a $600 NAD amp to a $3K Mcintosh amp was a HUGE jump.  It was like night and day.  There were so many differences and the differences were extraordinaire and a whole different level.  No DAC did 1/10 of what the amp upgrade did for me...or speakers.  I can hear slight marginal differences between dacs, but not on the same level.  None offered more depth or sense of separation of instruments like amplifiers or speaker upgrades.

Ok, thanks - that's a good specific for comparative evaluation.

That's exactly one of the main characteristics I would say exists with quality DACs & although I don't have a feel for the level of difference between NAD & Macintosh, in this regard, you might be wrong to expect the same HUGE jump as when systems get better, the improvements are incremental rather than quantum

[ElviaCaprice]

12 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

For me, probably the most significant is depth.  Upgrading from a $600 NAD amp to a $3K Mcintosh amp was a HUGE jump.  It was like night and day.  There were so many differences and the differences were extraordinaire and a whole different level.  No DAC did 1/10 of what the amp upgrade did for me...or speakers.  I can hear slight marginal differences between dacs, but not on the same level.  None offered more depth or sense of separation of instruments like amplifiers or speaker upgrades.

What if the DAC is also the amp?  How would you discern between the two?  Like Chord DAC's.

 

Your reasoning makes no sense about not being able to discern the difference between DAC's on pricing.  The same could be said about those owning cheap DAC's wanting to make right their decision over expensive DAC's that they can't or unwilling to purchase.  By your reasoning you can't say anything, period.  Thus I'm already over this silly thread.  I come to this forum to share information and learn in a positive but realistic way.  That means building knowledge, experiences with other like minded folks.  I will admit I am guilty of being negative and a non contributor at times.  But the first means to a cure are to admit the disease.

[beerandmusic]

6 minutes ago, mmerrill99 said:

Ok, thanks - that's a good specific for comparative evaluation.

That's exactly one of the main characteristics I would say exists with quality DACs & although I don't have a feel for the level of difference between NAD & Macintosh, in this regard, you might be wrong to expect the same HUGE jump as when systems get better, the improvements are incremental rather than quantum

Yea, i don't really expect to get much better...as It is not in my budget to spend a lot for little return.  For now, i will continue to put money in amp and speakers for upgrade and discount the DAC hoopla.  I thought about trying the yggi, but i am afraid it would be another "marginal" difference, and I also would lose the ability for native dsd....The gustard sounds promising though...my guess is that they will be $300 to $500 within a year.

 

to quote AJ Soundfeld about what dac he uses to demo his speakers:

5 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Depends on the audience, since that's who I'm demoing for.

For my personal needs, Foobar and Audioengine D2s are suffice

 

Another person i can trust inre DACS subjectivity....I think cheap wireless dacs will suffice until this stuff settles down...too much hoopla, too many new dacs, too many new chips...too much subjecitivity...all with marginal differences, and big price swings.