Why Do People Come To Computer Audiophile To Display Their Contempt For Audiophiles?

[mav52]

10 hours ago, sdolezalek said:

After all, we can all choose not to respond to any inflammatory posts and the thread will quickly die its own boring death.  But that isn't what we do.  We engage and the more we engage, the more we encourage those who would bait, trade, ridicule or belittle us.  It's a human tendency we can't seem to resist.  Not one I like, but I I'm trying to learn how to live with.  

 So true.   I remember as a kid,  our parents told us after we got in trouble, 'Not One More Word' but you just had to open that mouth.   Some people on forums just have to have 'The Last Word' and the thread continues with its endless babble and personal attacks ending up being a lose lose for all involved and it even results in some good people leaving CA for good.   Damn shame when people can't act like adults. .

[AJ Soundfield]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

more people on the site would identify toward the "subjectivist"

And as I've said 1000 times, none of those folks know the meaning of that word. Otherwise, there could be no arguments, which is all about objective claims.

A "subjectivist" would not care one whit what the item costs, the purity of materials its made of, how much lower or higher distortion or jitter or whatever electro-acoustic parameter it creates.

The only thing that would matter is that is pleases them more, whether or not is "sounds" different or not, because sound has a dictionary meaning. One does not have to stare at, know about and fondle something for a week or months to determine sound. No "test" is required to determine if one likes the thing or not.

There can be no conflict between true subjectivity and objective facts. Only between those who don't know what they are.

[Lebouwsky]

Music to me is one of life's delicacies which I can enjoy in many ways, such as festivals, concerts, in a pub or a party etc etc. But enjoying music at home with a nice beer or a good glass of wine is something special to me. No critical listening but just going with the flow. I worked hard for my system , but I'm proud of it and it really adds something to my life.

 

Of course I'm aware that being an audiophile is something.... well.... odd.... at least to a lot of people. It's a niche market in this very big music industry. Eventhough it's a niche market, there's a wide spectrum of people with different motives to be in this hobby. And when I read some discussions about A/B testing for example and the nervosity around it and how people react on each other and the words that they're using, it makes me wonder what's their joy in this hobby. I'm just having a hard time imagining these people sitting at home, relaxing and listening to good music.

 

But I love this forum, I absolutely love it. Have great day.

[Jud]

28 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

And as I've said 1000 times,

 

And in only 182 posts!    

 

28 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

none of those folks know the meaning of that word. Otherwise, there could be no arguments, which is all about objective claims.

A "subjectivist" would not care one whit what the item costs, the purity of materials its made of, how much lower or higher distortion or jitter or whatever electro-acoustic parameter it creates.

The only thing that would matter is that is pleases them more, whether or not is "sounds" different or not, because sound has a dictionary meaning. One does not have to stare at, know about and fondle something for a week or months to determine sound. No "test" is required to determine if one likes the thing or not.

There can be no conflict between true subjectivity and objective facts. Only between those who don't know what they are.

 

That's certainly one way to look at it.   

[rickca]

2 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

I've encountered them nearly in every topic I care about, and they seem to start out immediately on the attack

Exactly.  I bet my ignore list is identical to yours.

[AJ Soundfield]

13 minutes ago, Jud said:

That's certainly one way to look at it.   

Or this

[mourip]

14 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

And when I read some discussions about A/B testing for example and the nervosity around it and how people react on each other and the words that they're using, it makes me wonder what's their joy in this hobby. I'm just having a hard time imagining these people sitting at home, relaxing and listening to good music.

 

 

+1

Personally I just do not see much difference between objectivists and subjectivists. We are all after the same thing just from a different angle. At the end of the day no matter how many theories we believe in or improbable tweaks we propose we all keep the equipment that we like...that sounds good to us. We all keep equipment that makes us happy.

 

I would add to this conversation that people who truly believe something seldom feel the need to defend it. If you do feel the need to defend a strongly help belief please do it objectively without a personal attack. You will be far more persuasive.

 

Let's all focus on innovation now. CA has promoted some fantastic discoveries. That is the gold here.

 

 

 

 

[wgscott]

45 minutes ago, mourip said:

If you do feel the need to defend a strongly help belief please do it objectively without a personal attack.

 

[lucretius]

3 hours ago, Jud said:

There are folks who've been here a long time who have quite a sardonic sense of humor, and if they suddenly changed that I'd wonder if something was wrong.  But not everyone can bring that off.

 

I often have a sardonic grin while reading CA posts.

[christopher3393]

1 hour ago, AJ Soundfield said:

And as I've said 1000 times, none of those folks know the meaning of that word. Otherwise, there could be no arguments, which is all about objective claims.

A "subjectivist" would not care one whit what the item costs, the purity of materials its made of, how much lower or higher distortion or jitter or whatever electro-acoustic parameter it creates.

The only thing that would matter is that is pleases them more, whether or not is "sounds" different or not, because sound has a dictionary meaning. One does not have to stare at, know about and fondle something for a week or months to determine sound. No "test" is required to determine if one likes the thing or not.

There can be no conflict between true subjectivity and objective facts. Only between those who don't know what they are.

 

This might be an interesting topic for another thread. Personally, I have several reservations about your claims as stated and would want them spelled out in more detail with supporting evidence.

 

But for now, I would be very interested in your reply to Jud's opening question as stated: "Why Do People Come To Computer Audiophile To Display Their Contempt For Audiophiles?"

[AJ Soundfield]

16 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

But for now, I would be very interested in your reply to Jud's opening question 

I did in this form, but it now appears it was removed. You might not understand it either, given your reservations to my dichotomy explanation.

[Daudio]

4 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

What bothers me is not so much the 'contempt for audiophiles' (I don't really see that)

 

Perhaps that is because you are part of the problem, and can't recognize the water you swim in ?

I see it, and a strong look in a miiror might do you some good.

 

[master]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

I find the nastiest language coming from "true believers" belittling those of us who favour a scientific/engineering approach to obtaining good sound. I'm talking about the "you're just jealous because you can't afford the fancy cables," "if you can't hear it your system, your ears, and your dog are rubbish," etc.

 

The reasons should be obvious... they don't have a leg to stand on... getting personal is just about the only way they can respond.

 

Best to put them on the ignore list... I've had a few such run-ins and the ignore list definitely helped.

[AJ Soundfield]

2 minutes ago, master said:

 they don't have a leg to stand on.

Playing the eternal poor victim masks this very well.

[master]

3 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

And as I've said 1000 times, none of those folks know the meaning of that word.

 

I would go so far as to say most audiophiles don't really enjoy music... or even know much about it. I'm not talking about getting deep into music or the music scene... just that most audiophiles wouldn't know what to do with The Weeknd. They'd be more at home arguing their heads off... even when in the wrong.

 

3 hours ago, AJ Soundfield said:

A "subjectivist" would not care one whit what the item costs, the purity of materials its made of, how much lower or higher distortion or jitter or whatever electro-acoustic parameter it creates.

The only thing that would matter is that is pleases them more, whether or not is "sounds" different or not, because sound has a dictionary meaning. One does not have to stare at, know about and fondle something for a week or months to determine sound. No "test" is required to determine if one likes the thing or not.

There can be no conflict between true subjectivity and objective facts. Only between those who don't know what they are.

 

Folks don't really argue about whether they like something or not. That's purely subjective and varies from one individual to another... and the best part is nobody finds anything wrong with it (as long as it's not audiophilia).

 

Now folks would argue why not the same when it comes to "audiophile" equipment and I'd be perfectly fine with it as long as the individuals stated that... they simply like it and don't have any reasons for the same. However, that's not how folks from around here argue... it's either about hearing something that's not really there or better still let me hurt you so bad and insult your mama that you ain't going to be back.

[wgscott]

One other thing is the "arguments" seem to be more intense and personal when debating phenomena with very small differences.  Nobody seems to get worked up over whether two sets of speakers sound quite different.

[AJ Soundfield]

4 minutes ago, master said:

 

I would go so far as to say most audiophiles don't really enjoy music... or even know much about it.

Totally disagree. It's the one thing we all have in common, otherwise I wouldn't be here.

I'm a manufacturer. I've exhibited at around a dozen audio shows. I'm a member of the local audiophile club, with over a hundred members and 2 meets per month minimum.

So I consider myself "immersed" and have been exposed to literally thousands of audiophiles and nearly as many systems. Most a very nice people. With nearly zero technical knowledge and understanding of physics as it relates to electro-acoustics, nor anything related to psycho-acoustics and perception. Yet that is their favorite pass time, "arguing" about electro-acoustics/perception, not just, "hey, this thing sound great to me and I don't care what absurd reason why".

[christopher3393]

1 hour ago, AJ Soundfield said:

I did in this form, but it now appears it was removed. You might not understand it either, given your reservations to my dichotomy explanation.

Yes, it is a loaded question.  My guess is that you can see past that to the concern being raised. But perhaps you would like to suggest a form of the question that would not be fallacious and that you would like to answer? It is my impression that you, along with others, have made a number of recent comments that include humor regarding "audiophiles". 

[wgscott]

18 hours ago, Jud said:

Seen a lot of this lately, so just wonderin’.

 

In answer to the "Why do they come?" part of the question, I think this tends to happen when there is a particularly divisive thread, often involving personalities from other internet sites, such as the "Person X at website Y says this slanderous thing about your USB doohickie" thread.

[AJ Soundfield]

2 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

 It is my impression that you, along with others, have made a number of recent comments that include humor regarding "audiophiles". 

Guilty as charged...Though precisely because I can immediately see things like loaded questions, I can also separate the person from the "argument". So indeed, I do tend to poke a wee bit of fun at beliefs. That there might be collateral damage, perceived or real, is another matter entirely and most likely based on the eye of the beholder.

Or believer in this case.

[AJ Soundfield]

3 minutes ago, wgscott said:

"Person X at website Y says this slanderous thing about your USB doohickie" thread.

Well, if it were "Person A at website B says this slanderous thing about doohickie X", then the whole thing would be invalid

[Daudio]

31 minutes ago, master said:

I would go so far as to say most audiophiles don't really enjoy music... or even know much about it.

 

31 minutes ago, master said:

it's either about hearing something that's not really there or better still let me hurt you so bad and insult your mama that you ain't going to be back.

 

So why did you come to CA and Display Your Contempt For Audiophiles so Clearly and Blatantly ?

 

34 minutes ago, master said:

just that most audiophiles wouldn't know what to do with The Weeknd

 

You accuse us of not knowing music, and use as an example a R&B artist who's only been performing for 6 years ?!?!?

 

And you expect us to take you seriously ?... NOT !

 

[Daudio]

20 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Guilty as charged...

I do tend to poke a wee bit of fun at beliefs. That there might be collateral damage, perceived or real, is another matter entirely and most likely based on the eye of the beholder.

 

Every post of yours that I saw before Ignoring you (and some later by accident, as here), has been toxic and mean-spirited, taking every opportunity to denigrate anything, and anyone, related to listening rather then measuring.

 

I consider your postings here on CA to be a insidious danger to the CA community as a whole, with no redeeming social (or technical) value.

 

Sorry but I call it like I see it !

 

And you are very germane to the topic of this thread. Where did you come from ? Arriving right after the big contentious Obj/Sub thread got shut down, and not alone either, as a few other new, vocal, blindly 'objective' members appeared about then too.

 

So, are you a terrorist agent sent from Hydro Audio, or some other den of 'righteous' thinkers ? 

 

[jabbr]

11 hours ago, Sam Lord said:

You're working in the industry now, right?  I greatly appreciate your posts, especially addressing the very dense DAC architecture questions, etc.

 

Thanks! I am working in an industry but not the industry  My background is science and technology, very much from the days of when we had to build everything we used, and write all of our own software.

 

I dislike the "objectivist/subjectivist" terminology/dichotomy in that, philosophically, I believe it is the job of measurements to explain subjective sensory phenomena, rather than explain them away  

So I reserve the right to wander back and forth and poke holes.

 

11 hours ago, Sam Lord said:

This topic is the reason I use my full, real name.  I do it everywhere except skiing forums, where travel security makes it unsafe.  It makes you deal with mistakes, which is terribly humbling. 

 

Unfortunately there are reasons where using one's professional name has its own problems. Contractual obligations etc. My primary business is not consulting but I use my name for consulting and have a second entity to hold IP and other activities not associated with my primary field.

 

That and folks like @wgscott have had threats that someone would go to their employer ..(!)

 

Another reason not to use your own name, nor profession is that what we write, what arguments we make, should stand on their own. I wouldn't want someone to believe (or disbelieve) an argument based on who someone is -- the argument should stand on its own. Of course if we are deciding which airplane to fly on, we want to know that the pilot has verified expertise, similarly if we are deciding whether to get on an elevator or travel over a bridge (yes we need real engineers), but for the purposes of a hobby everyone should be able to equally contribute their ideas, and make their own arguments. We shouldn't argue by authority.

[AJ Soundfield]

5 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

before Ignoring you

You're doing a fantastic job. Perceptions must be assumed to be 100% real.