How To Break In Amp

[jabbr]

18 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

As Chris correctly said, selling a customer return as new is illegal in the US.

 

 I thought Rando was referring to the practice of having a demo unit that is provided to customers as such.  When the demo unit is returned, a new unit is sent if the customer agrees to purchase.

 

I seek out used, reconditioned units if the manufacturer is "FirstWatt" and the mark of the individual doing the reconditioning is "NP" -- these are found at: http://www.renohifi.com/FirstUsed/FirstUsedInStock.htm

Note that though sold as used, they might arrive in "new factory boxing"

 

[Jud]

By the way, to be clear: What you referred to before, repaired items that had initially failed QC at the factory, could as far as I know be sold as new if they met the same requirements for performance and appearance.

[Jud]

1 minute ago, jabbr said:

 

I seek out used, reconditioned units if the manufacturer is "FirstWatt" and the mark of the individual doing the reconditioning is "NP" -- these are found at: http://www.renohifi.com/FirstUsed/FirstUsedInStock.htm

Note that though sold as used, they might arrive in "new factory boxing"

 

 

Just as I would be very likely to buy another refurbished, discounted laptop from Apple, as I did with my current one.

 

 I also bought my amp, speakers, and speaker cables used.

[mansr]

9 minutes ago, Jud said:

There are all sorts of ways to do this.  You can have the first customer’s inspected (and if necessary, repaired) return become the next customer’s demo or rental or discounted refurbished item.  You can sell it to a reseller who carries refurbished or “B stock” gear at a discount.  Lots more I’m sure I haven’t thought of.

It all comes down to the return rate and your overall sales volume.

[mansr]

8 minutes ago, Jud said:

By the way, to be clear: What you referred to before, repaired items that had initially failed QC at the factory, could as far as I know be sold as new if they met the same requirements for performance and appearance.

At that company, every unit sold had passed the same set of tests. The failed ones were repaired and put through the full test cycle again. After the automated stress test the flash output was measured to make sure all settings delivered the correct energy. Failures at that stage were rare.

[One and a half]

A new amp does need some time for the caps and transformer to settle in. By that I mean for a transformer, the laminations and insualtion need to find their feet in the housing, if a transformer will hum, now's the time to find that out. For a toroid less so, but they also can hum.

For the large caps, so long as a voltage is applied, they are happy, but let them do some work as well. But how? Loudspeakers at close to full power for 24/7? Out in a field maybe, so try this.

 

Buy two 1500W (110V) immersion heaters. Cut the plug off, or modify an extension cord and remove its plug off. Bare back the wires and connect like a speaker, and don't bother with the polarity. A 1500W heater has a resistance really close to 8 ohms, and the coiled end adds some inductance which is a bonus. It's not possible to burn out the resistor, unless an amp is over 1500W !! On the safe side though, place the heater into a pail/bucket, the water will cool the heater and let the amp run with music, get a good night's sleep and not disturb the neighbours.

 

Heater Link at Amazon (USD24).

 

 

 

[Ralf11]

Open the windows, turn one channel on full blast and go on vacation for a week or 2 - when you get back, see if one channel sounds different than the other one

 

 

[rando]

Like any old joke, once you start explaining it the value is gone.  Before letting the cat out of the bag having one or two people following a literal path just means it was sold well enough to pass as truth.  I did start to get concerned someone would seriously pursue it as a world wise dirty trick nobody was guilty of.

 

Sidenote:  Cippo and a large number of other Italians ride Shimano nowadays.  Ultegra is the impeccable trouble free  and affordable every man's group Chorus used to be renowned as.  It has become quite popular on old steel bikes that still get ridden frequently.    

[andifor]

And its not only the amps, speakers and cables that have to break in, that's easy and we know already. But we tends to forget the air in the room! All the molecules move much faster and change position more fluently after 200 hours of break in.

 

Some month ago, I just finished the 2 week mandatory air-break in, my now ex-wife opened the windows to my studio to let some fresh air in (as she defended herself). Just on the day I invited some buddies over to a listening session!!! 

[unbalanced output]

1 hour ago, andifor said:

And its not only the amps, speakers and cables that have to break in, that's easy and we know already. But we tends to forget the air in the room! All the molecules move much faster and change position more fluently after 200 hours of break in.

 

Some month ago, I just finished the 2 week mandatory air-break in, my now ex-wife opened the windows to my studio to let some fresh air in (as she defended herself). Just on the day I invited some buddies over to a listening session!!! 

 

You're new in this business of air break in, apparently. The air molecules get quickly greased in with a diet based on free range eggs, coriander, red chili and audiophile grade cabbage

[andifor]

10 hours ago, unbalanced output said:

 

You're new in this business of air break in, apparently. The air molecules get quickly greased in with a diet based on free range eggs, coriander, red chili and audiophile grade cabbage

 

I've heard CO sounds much better than all the CO2 floating around, can somebody confirm with an A/B test? With A being CO and B being CO2... ;o)

[Daudio]

18 minutes ago, andifor said:

I've heard CO sounds much better than all the CO2 floating around, can somebody confirm with an A/B test? With A being CO and B being CO2...

 

That would be a very objective test since the 'A' listeners will be indisputably dead, while the 'B' listeners will only be very sick !

[andifor]

2 minutes ago, Daudio said:

 

That would be a very objective test since the 'A' listeners will be indisputably dead, while the 'B' listeners will only be very sick !

 

Another prove of the A/B theory discussed in the other thread! :o)

[DancingSea]

10 hours ago, unbalanced output said:

 

You're new in this business of air break in, apparently. The air molecules get quickly greased in with a diet based on free range eggs, coriander, red chili and audiophile grade cabbage

 

And with that, the amp is broken in :)

[rando]

You laugh, but containing the electronics in an atmosphere removed from our own requirements has great potential.  Imagine sitting in your listening chair smoking a rare cigar, exhaling a corrosively unhealthy meal, and the room sublimely lit by waxy candlelight... with no negative effect on your equipment.  

[Sam Lord]

On 6/14/2017 at 7:10 PM, mansr said:

Play ultrasonic sounds at full volume. Are there any dogs in your neighbourhood?

 

This is NOT the place to be a bomb thrower!  Deafen his pets and fry his tweeters, nice.

DancingSea,
If you don't mind some homework, find a competent electronic technician who will wire up some 50 or 100 watt, 4 or 8 Ohm resistors in series and parallel, set them on a broad metal pan, and use them as dummy speaker loads when you aren't listening.  Use good, locking banana plugs temporarily for both speaker and dummy loads.  Always use safe protocols (there are many) in these operations.  Run pink noise through the amp at a high level but well below (at least 14dB below) clipping.  That will do the job without your having to move the speakers.  But you WILL want to move the speakers at times to get the best position in the room.

 

Or run pink noise at a pretty high level whenever you are out of the house.  A low level of pink noise might be fine for sleeping, everybody has a different preference.

 

See, it's a pain in the butt if you aren't trained to do it!  So as kilroy said, play music loud when you can, and softer at other times.

 

Long-term use matters.  Old amplifiers of the exact _same_ model, if undamaged, sound better after several years than new ones.  Most people don't get to make those comparisons, so there are many doubters.  

[DancingSea]

The PS Audio S300 power amp arrived yesterday and installed it last night.  Its matched with the new PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/pre amp, Sonus Farber Chameleon T speakers, DH Labs Silver Sonic BL-1 speaker wire and rca interconnects.  Supra USB with the iPurifier 2.  Mac Book Pro with Amarra 4 Luxe.  

 

Replacing a YBA Integre integrated (20 years old) and PeachTree iTx DAC, and Meadowlark Audio Kestrel Hot Rod speakers.

 

Had time to listen for about 30 minutes, with zero break in.

 

Wow, the new amp sounded incredible.  Smooth, dynamic, huge soundstage right to left, front to back.  It was stunning.  I've never heard anything like it in my life.  Take that with a grain of salt in that I live on a small island in the middle of the Pacific with no audiophile stores in which to go listen to equipment.

 

But in my universe, the new gear is ridiculously good.  Now I'm hoping the amp break in doesn't make the sound worse!

[BigAlMc]

Hi @DancingSea

 

Congrats on the new kit and thanks for sharing the update. 

 

Be great to know how you get on after a couple weeks. Like yourself I read these really improve after some burn in. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

[DancingSea]

8 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Hi @DancingSea

 

Congrats on the new kit and thanks for sharing the update. 

 

Be great to know how you get on after a couple weeks. Like yourself I read these really improve after some burn in. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

 

I think I may actual be nearing a point of sonic contentment - though not intending that notion to scare my fellow audiophiles.  I really am close to letting go of the improvement bug and just listen to music.  Well, of course there is the new ISO Regan to try out - but after that, no more stuff!

[Ralf11]

I guess  Class A Analog Cell is an input, as they say the output stage is Class D.

 

anyway, congrats!

[DancingSea]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I guess  Class A Analog Cell is an input, as they say the output stage is Class D.

 

anyway, congrats!

 

Yes, the PS Audio S300 is some sort of mixture of Class A and Class D.  My only experience with a Class D amp was with the Vanatoo desktop computer speakers, which I didn't care for.

 

The Stellar Gain Cell DAC sounded good in my old system.  I auditioned the much less expensive TEAC NT 503 DAC at the same time.  In that system, while close, the TEAC actually bested the SGCD to my ears - sounding more analog like.

 

Goes to show how synergy is so important.  The SGCD sounds incredible with the S300, the amp is was designed to mate with - nothing like what I've read Class D amps to be like.  The quite wonderful TEAC NT 503 (which is more feature rich than the PS Audio), is on its way back to Crutchfield.

[DancingSea]

Another interesting side effect of the PS Audio S300/ SGCD combo is that I use my old Ah! Tjeob CD 4000 player for break ins.  The Ah! doesn't have the upsampling upgrade, just the base model that sold for $600 in 2000.  CD's played in this arrangement sound much better than ever as well.  My theory was the more revealing PS Audio gear would push the Ah! further out the window, but instead, quite the opposite - the new gear handles red book much better than my old set up.

 

And I get a little taste of yummy tubes from the Ah! Tjeob.

[TubeLover]

On 6/15/2017 at 7:55 AM, Jud said:

Shorter: Let's generally try to be helpful without actively giving misinformation, rather than trying to convince someone else of the error of his ways.  Yes, there are times when being helpful means telling someone he or she has the wrong idea.  But I try to save that for situations where what the questioner is wanting to do will make things worse, rather than (IMO) make no appreciable change.

Well said Jud. We are in need of more of this attitude here in the forums!

[BigAlMc]

7 hours ago, DancingSea said:

Goes to show how synergy is so important.  The SGCD sounds incredible with the S300, the amp is was designed to mate with - nothing like what I've read Class D amps to be like.

 

Yeah that synergy is what I'm chasing as I consider the PS Audio M700 monoblocks from the same range as I have their Directstream DAC. 

 

Having some matching kit on the rack would be an added bonus too but obviously of far less importance than the SQ. 

 

Interesting comments about the S300 also bringing the best out of your CD player too. 

 

The M700s are top of my list but power amps from Hegel and Bryston are also catching my eye. Ideally I'd like to hear all three but the synergy & burn in arguments are interesting as there's a train of thought that the Hegel or Bryston (both more expensive) might sound better in the store. Whereas the PS Audio might sound better in my system after burn in and due to synergy. A fairly unanswerable question I guess.... 

 

Glad you're off to a very encouraging start as helping to push me in the PS Audio direction I want to travel 

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Yeah that synergy is what I'm chasing as I consider the PS Audio M700 monoblocks from the same range as I have their Directstream DAC. 

 

Having some matching kit on the rack would be an added bonus too but obviously of far less importance than the SQ. 

 

Interesting comments about the S300 also bringing the best out of your CD player too. 

 

The M700s are top of my list but power amps from Hegel and Bryston are also catching my eye. Ideally I'd like to hear all three but the synergy & burn in arguments are interesting as there's a train of thought that the Hegel or Bryston (both more expensive) might sound better in the store. Whereas the PS Audio might sound better in my system after burn in and due to synergy. A fairly unanswerable question I guess.... 

 

Glad you're off to a very encouraging start as helping to push me in the PS Audio direction I want to travel 

 

I thought about the M700's but were concerned they'd be overkill for my system.  I realize speaker power ratings only mean so much, but my speakers have a max rating of 300w per channel by Sonus Farber.  The M700's are 700w per channel.  Just seemed risky that at some point it would be played a little too loud and bust my speakers.  Not a risk I felt comfortable taking even though PS Audio assured me it would not be a problem.

 

One plus of my modest setup is the DAC was specifically tuned to match the S300 as they assumed they'd be often bought together.  PS Audio says as much in their write up.

 

I really love the PS Audio trade in program that allows you to trade in old equipment and get credit at the original msrp with no regard for depreciation.  From playing around on their site, its seems one can always get up to 30% off.  With the M700 I put a 20 year old amp from my secondary system - that originally sold for $1000 - into their trade in program.  The price of the M700's came down to $2000, but would go no further.

 

It is an unfortunately large leap from their $3000 M700's to the $15K big boss amp.

 

With free Fedex shipping both ways, and a 30 day in home trial, seems no harm to giving the M700's a whirl.  As mentioned, I'm thoroughly impressed by the S300.  And they look great.

 

Best of Luck!