How To Break In Amp

[DancingSea]

Aloha From Maui,

 

Is it possible to break in a new power amp with the volume turned down?  I'd like to run it for several days non stop going CD Player ---> Pre Amp/ DAC ---> new Power Amp ---> Speakers.  I live in a small house, thus having the volume up 24/7 isn't going to work.

 

So if I set it all up, have the load running through the chain, but no volume on the Pre Amp - will that do just as good a job breaking in as playing with the volume up?

 

The same question applies to just having the new power amp plugged and turned on, sitting by itself and not connected to anything but the power.

 

Thanks. 

[4est]

If there is no volume on your pre amp, then there is no signal to the amp. It would be no different than just turning it on. I wouldn't put signal to it without it being connected to something, especially if it is a tube amp. If you have to do it and don't want to listen, pick up some dummy load resisters from parts express or something, and use them instead of your speakers..

[DancingSea]

2 minutes ago, 4est said:

If there is no volume on your pre amp, then there is no signal to the amp. It would be no different than just turning it on. I wouldn't put signal to it without it being connected to something, especially if it is a tube amp. If you have to do it and don't want to listen, pick up some dummy load resisters from parts express or something, and use them instead of your speakers..

 

I see, that makes sense.

 

Its all solid state.  What if the DAC/Pre Amp is in DAC only mode, which disengages its volume control.  Would that still send a signal to the power amp?  I know it still sends a signal to my current integrated amp.

[plissken]

Just use your amp. It will burn in just due to use. No special measures need be taken. Enjoy your music.

[DancingSea]

Just now, plissken said:

Just use your amp. It will burn in just due to use. No special measures need be taken. Enjoy your music.

 

It has a 30 day in home trial.  I noticed with the Pre Amp/ DAC (PS Audio Stellar Gain), burn in transformed the sound, I did 200 hours.  Initially, it sounded mediocre at best.

 

The amp is the matching Stellar Gain S300.  I've read on the PS Audio forums that it greatly benefits from burn in as well.  So I'm trying to get to the promised land as quickly as possible to give plenty of listening time before the 30 day return window closes.

[plissken]

I have a suggestion. Burn in one channel for 200 hours. Then have someone help you evaluate blind, monophonically.

[DancingSea]

Just now, plissken said:

I have a suggestion. Burn in one channel for 200 hours. Then have someone help you evaluate blind, monophonically.

 

Dear Sir, you are confusing me

[mav52]

I 'll use what Nelson Pass said.

"A question. For how long should the amp be
broke in? For the breaking in period, should I play music continuously, or
is it better to turn the amp off for about an hour once a day?"

His reply:

"Thank you, and I have an answer:

I have no idea. Hi Fi equipment seems to settle into a good state over time,
but there is no decisive evidence as to whether it is the equipment or the
listener."

 

All I know his amps sound great and what I did, is just played music or for a better word, used the amp.

[Jud]

56 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Is it possible to break in a new power amp with the volume turned down?

 

Playing it with volume turned way down, but not totally off, can’t hurt anything, so sure, why not?  Then you’ve done what you could and can make a decision knowing the amp is as burned in as it will get during your demo period.

[unbalanced output]

You could wire your speakers with inverted phase, place one in front of the other, cover them with a blanket and put them to play 24/7. Or just play at moderate volume and juat close the windows. That said, I wouldn't bother at all. If you like the sound now, you will like it later. If not... 

[4est]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

I see, that makes sense.

 

Its all solid state.  What if the DAC/Pre Amp is in DAC only mode, which disengages its volume control.  Would that still send a signal to the power amp?  I know it still sends a signal to my current integrated amp.

 

Yes it will, but it wont be breaking in the amp. My first thought was to have a party and run that sucker hard all night, but Jud's suggestion seem best. It really needs some signal with a load.

[sphinxsix]

25 minutes ago, unbalanced output said:

You could wire your speakers with inverted phase, place one in front of the other,

+1

The simplest (and quietest) way.

22 minutes ago, 4est said:

My first thought was to have a party and run that sucker hard all night

Have a 30 days party! Critical listening after that can prove difficult though

[kilroy]

Leave it on as much as possible. Eventually it will burn itself in.

Ignore the blind mono evaluation crap. 

[mansr]

Play ultrasonic sounds at full volume. Are there any dogs in your neighbourhood?

[AJ Soundfield]

Peoples perceptions are malleable and change with time. That's what "burns in" ...your changing perception.

A well established scientific fact. Unless one is too vain to accept humanity applies to you too.

 

Btw, if one believes in this stuff, why buy new instead of used???

 

cheer,

 

AJ

[mansr]

1 minute ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Peoples perceptions are malleable and change with time. That's what "burns in" ...your changing perception.

A well established scientific fact. Unless one is too vain to accept humanity applies to you too.

This happens even if there is no actual difference in sound compared to the old component.

[kilroy]

The burn-in police have arrived.

[jabbr]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

Aloha From Maui,

 

Is it possible to break in a new power amp with the volume turned down?  I'd like to run it for several days non stop going CD Player ---> Pre Amp/ DAC ---> new Power Amp ---> Speakers.  I live in a small house, thus having the volume up 24/7 isn't going to work.

 

So if I set it all up, have the load running through the chain, but no volume on the Pre Amp - will that do just as good a job breaking in as playing with the volume up?

 

The same question applies to just having the new power amp plugged and turned on, sitting by itself and not connected to anything but the power.

 

Thanks. 

 

There is no single answer. In very many cases it takes a certain amount of time for the amplifier to reach thermal stability -- this is a very real and incontrovertable (very measurable) change that occurs over hopefully a short time. There *may* be other, much more subtle effects that take time and are component dependent.

[DancingSea]

10 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Peoples perceptions are malleable and change with time. That's what "burns in" ...your changing perception.

A well established scientific fact. Unless one is too vain to accept humanity applies to you too.

 

Btw, if one believes in this stuff, why buy new instead of used???

 

cheer,

 

AJ

 

In my experience, its not so black and white.  For instance, with the Stellar Gain Cell DAC, I listened out of the box - didn't sound very good.  Listened at 50 hours, still only average.  Then I let it run another 150 hours, with no listening in between and reevaluated.  The sound was dramatically different.  Because I didn't listen for 150 hours, my perceptions for this particular device were largely left untouched.  I was not brought along gradually, I took 6 days off from listening to any music at all.

 

I think for what you are saying to be totally true, then all of this equipment would sound the same to everyone.  There would be no need to have audiophile equipment interests at all because sound quality would be entirely dependent upon our personal perception.  Of course, I'm sure we experience the tricks of perception at times - but its not an exclusive experience.  We aren't only blind and deluded.

 

I postulate that its all mixture of personal perception and actual sound difference.  Something that would be very difficult to quantify scientifically as there are so many variables.

 

Life itself is not entirely constituted by personal perception.  A group of people could look at a mountain.  On the level of perception, some may see beauty, others danger, others uninterested as they aren't into mountains, and blind person doesn't perceive the mountain at all.  Yet all perceptions aside, the fact remains that a mountain is there.  The mountain exists with or without someone to perceive it.  A mountain who's surface is constantly changing, whether or not a human is there to interpret.

 

Back to audio, while true, we all may perceive the effects of burn in differently, or not at all, it seems simplistic to say it categorically has no effect, or to reduce our inquiry to a black and white situation.  Indeed, audio equipment, like humans themselves, have lots of colors stacked between to two poles of one way or the other.  One way and the other - in a myriad of different combinations and degrees - seems a more realistic conclusion.

 

The mind wants black and white so it can quantify, put things in boxes to satisfy its innate insecurity.  Music is tied to the heart with a calliope of rainbow colors.  The heart perceives differently than the mind.  Thus it stands to reason that the heart's evaluation of burn in may look a bit different than its dogmatic brother.

 

As for me, at least with the new DAC, the effects of burn in were a fact, a lot like the existence of the mountain.  My perception of that fact made my heart quite happy

[mansr]

8 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

The heart perceives differently than the mind.  Thus it stands to reason that the heart's evaluation of burn in may look a bit different than its dogmatic brother.

Heartburn, not a good thing.

[mansr]

10 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

Life itself is not entirely constituted by personal perception.  A group of people could look at a mountain.  On the level of perception, some may see beauty, others danger, others uninterested as they aren't into mountains, and blind person doesn't perceive the mountain at all.

And some see a molehill.

[Jud]

Yup, this is why I worded my answer the way I did.  

 

You think there’s burn-in?  (I thought there was a short burn-in period when I had two new caps in one channel of a DAC and two used caps in the other, but I knew which channel was which.) Good, then you’ve allowed your amp to burn in before final evaluation.  

 

If there’s no burn-in?  Fine, what’s the difference?  You listen to your amp and decide if you like it, just the same.

[DancingSea]

3 minutes ago, Jud said:

Yup, this is why I worded my answer the way I did.  

 

You think there’s burn-in?  (I thought there was a short burn-in period when I had two new caps in one channel of a DAC and two used caps in the other, but I knew which channel was which.) Good, then you’ve allowed your amp to burn in before final evaluation.  

 

If there’s no burn-in?  Fine, what’s the difference?  You listen to your amp and decide if you like it, just the same.

 

Well, for the DAC, I know there was a clear burn in effect.  For the amp, I don't know, will have to see.  There may or may not be any difference.

[Jud]

Just now, DancingSea said:

 

Well, for the DAC, I know there was burn in.  For the amp, I don't know, will have to see.  There may or may not be any difference.

 

And even if some day it was scientifically proved this was all in your head, who cares?  You have a DAC you like.  No one else had to pay for it.

 

Same with the amp.  Regardless of whether burn-in exists (burning question?), you’ll listen to it and decide if you want to keep it.

[GregWormald]

I know the designer/manufacturer of my pre-amp said that it takes 30 hours to stabilise and sound the best after being powered up. He made it so that even with the switch off, the only thing that happens is that the volume is disconnected from the output. The pre stays on unless unplugged.

 

If "real amplifying" will make a difference the best option is unbalanced output's.

 

Greg