PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC - Upgrade Theory

[DancingSea]

Aloha,

 

The PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC ($1700) arrived and has 48 hours of break in complete, with more to come.  Its connected to a YBA Integre integrated amp (20 years old), and is replacing a PeachTree Audio DAC iTx ($350).  Speakers are Sonus Farber Chameleon T's.

 

Breaking in for the Stellar Gain is supposedly 100 - 200 hours.  Curious, I gave it quick listen today (48 hours in).  While it sounded very good, it didn't sound appreciably different than the PeachTree.

 

My questions are, should I attribute this similarity to the PeachTree to suggest the Stellar Gain simply isn't any better?  Or should I conclude that my old amp is only capable of revealing so much at that both DAC's hit the amp's sonic ceiling?

 

I'll keep the break in wheels turning and we re-evaluate next Wednesday (200 hours).  But pondering if maybe I need to get a new power amp in the house to better access what the Stellar Gain Cell DAC is capable of.  I got a pretty good deal on it, thus trying to determine if its worth keeping it as part of my larger upgrade mission?  Or conclude that its just not that great, or that the PeachTree is better than I thought?

 

Mahalo From Maui!

[trappy]

Give it the break-in it deserves. And give it a good long listen. Differences in DACs can be hard to spot, and often show up over the long haul, I.e., you don't want to turn off the system until 5 in the morning, or conversely, you think it sounds good, but your ears are tired.

 

You are comparing two Sabre based DACs so there may be some similarity in presentation; I think the DACitX is actually a very nice instrument. I should think your YBA is just fine; don't rush out to replace it. 

 

Looking forward to your updates.

[4est]

3 hours ago, DancingSea said:

Aloha,

 

The PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC ($1700) arrived and has 48 hours of break in complete, with more to come.  Its connected to a YBA Integre integrated amp (20 years old), and is replacing a PeachTree Audio DAC iTx ($350).  Speakers are Sonus Farber Chameleon T's.

 

Breaking in for the Stellar Gain is supposedly 100 - 200 hours.  Curious, I gave it quick listen today (48 hours in).  While it sounded very good, it didn't sound appreciably different than the PeachTree.

 

My questions are, should I attribute this similarity to the PeachTree to suggest the Stellar Gain simply isn't any better?  Or should I conclude that my old amp is only capable of revealing so much at that both DAC's hit the amp's sonic ceiling?

 

I'll keep the break in wheels turning and we re-evaluate next Wednesday (200 hours).  But pondering if maybe I need to get a new power amp in the house to better access what the Stellar Gain Cell DAC is capable of.  I got a pretty good deal on it, thus trying to determine if its worth keeping it as part of my larger upgrade mission?  Or conclude that its just not that great, or that the PeachTree is better than I thought?

 

Mahalo From Maui!

 

IME, if you cannot discern between the two now after it being on for two days, some more break in is unlikely to change that much. At 5x the cost, there should be (nearly)immediate, discernible differences. I'd put my money elsewhere.

[agladstone]

DancingSea:

Some thoughts:

1. First I would say trying to audition The Mytek Brooklyn DAC as a comparison would be an idea, however I know you got a really good deal on the PS Stellar Gain, so perhaps some of my next suggestions make sense to try first. 

2. Perhaps the more important things to address are the source (your MacBook) and investing in a USB "de-crapifier" / re-clocker and an external linear power supply (or an Uptone LPS-1 battery power supply) to power the USB cleaner / reclocker. 

3. Get a dedicated Music Player / Streamer: Perhaps try a Sonore uRendu (micro rendu) as a network player/streamer (may also require a NAS) or an Auralic Aeries Mini with a 1GB or 2 GB SSD installed, or an Aurender N100H (most expensive option at about $2,500, but probably the best). 

4. Definitely get a USB cleaner with either a new dedicated player streamer OR if you decide to keep the MacBook as source! 

Wyred4Sound RUR, Uptone ISO Regen, or IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 AND get an Uptone Audio LPS-1 OR an HDPlex 200W Linear Power supply to power one of these USB Reclocker / cleaners. 

5. Last, since the PS Audio Stellar DAC (and the Mytek Brooklyn) has a built in Pre-Amp, you could also buy just a power amp and use the DAC as a Pre-Amp. 

- I suggest first start with a USB Cleaner / Re-Clocker and a battery (LPS-1) or HDPlex 200W as a power source for the USB cleaner you select. This is the cheapest option and even if you try the other upgrades next, you will want these two things always in your chain regardless! 

Another tweak you should try too (but last - after the other suggestions ) would be upgraded power cables, a power conditioner, and upgraded interconnects, when I upgraded to Shunyata power cables, Shunyata PS8 Power strip with a Shunyata Defender into the PS8, and Shunyata Venom interconnects, my system went to an entirely new level. 

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, agladstone said:

Wyred4Sound RUR, Uptone ISO Regen, or IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 AND get an Uptone Audio LPS-1 OR an HDPlex 200W Linear Power supply to power one of these USB Reclocker / cleaners. 

 

 

Hi Allen - Yes, would like to try the Wyred4Sound RUR, if only I could find one used for sale (g).  I am on the clock with the 30 day PS Audio audition, and thus my primary focus is to decide whether or not to keep it.  I'm on a step by step upgrade program and need to stick to that financially disciplined path, though do one day hope to achieve the end you described.  But I can afford a W4S RUR, new ones are around for $199.

 

If the Stellar Gain doesn't impress me more next week, not sure its worth keeping, despite the great deal I got.

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, 4est said:

 

IME, if you cannot discern between the two now after it being on for two days, some more break in is unlikely to change that much. At 5x the cost, there should be (nearly)immediate, discernible differences. I'd put my money elsewhere.

 

Yes, that was my hope, a clear difference.  But I did just the gun a bit, so I'm going to give the full 200 hours.  I read reviews on the PS Audio website of beta testers stressing how much more break in helped.  Reviewers their said how much better it sounded than the NuWave DSD DAC, of which their largely the same DAC.  Its a nice looking piece of kit, and I like the idea of the preamp which opens the door to a power amp in my future.  And I got such a great deal, hard to return. 

[DancingSea]

6 hours ago, trappy said:

Give it the break-in it deserves. And give it a good long listen. Differences in DACs can be hard to spot, and often show up over the long haul, I.e., you don't want to turn off the system until 5 in the morning, or conversely, you think it sounds good, but your ears are tired.

 

You are comparing two Sabre based DACs so there may be some similarity in presentation; I think the DACitX is actually a very nice instrument. I should think your YBA is just fine; don't rush out to replace it. 

 

Looking forward to your updates.

 

Ok, patience grasshopper, got it.  Thanks!

[DancingSea]

Given the consensus is that an amp upgrade doesn't make sense in my DAC evaluation - and thanks for that guidance - I've decide to order the other DAC I feel drawn to in order to compare, the Teac NT 503.  Shipping to and from Hawaii is often very expensive from audio companies, but Crutchfield makes it easy, free out here and $10 going back.

 

The Teac is suppose to provide a full, analog like sound, and uses a different chip than the Sabre.  The Teac uses dual AKM VERITA AK4490 chips.  Had considered the new Oppo Sonica DAC, but reviews implied, while well liked, a potential glare or harshness issue that would rub me the wrong way.

 

Saw that B&H had the Teac for $200 off and Crutchfield matched, so $799.

 

(Allen, the Brooklyn is well over by $1000 - ish budget).

 

May the DAC shootout begin!

[Ralf11]

Thanks for posting this comparison.  This is exactly the sort of comparison testing that we want (those of use thinking of a new DAC, that is - not to mention engineers working in this area).

 

You might want to call PS Audio and ask them why...

 

One other factor could possibly e the source material, and its format, PCM v DSD, etc.

 

I look forward to your tests of the Teac

[DancingSea]

One thing I can say in the Stellar Gain's favor, is that I'm doing the break in with my Ah! Tjeob CD 4000 which has tubes inside.  The SGCD does convey more of the tubey-ness sweet part of the sound than the PeachTree.   Like a dollop of sweet cream.  Unfortunately, I rarely listen to the Ah! Tjeob anymore as my Mac based arrangement (Amarra 4 or A+ with the preQursor2 plug in) sounds better with all the hi res files, etc.

 

The SGCD should be fully broken in by the time the Teac arrives.

 

I was hoping - and it may still be - a more cavernous soundstage out of the SGCD.  The PeachTree leans a bit 2D.  The SGCD looks like a serious piece of kit, built like a tank and its way way bigger than the PeachTree, lets hope it delivers more wow the next go around.

[DancingSea]

One thing that piqued my interest in the Teac, is the creator of HQPlayer owns one - from what I gather from this forum...

[agladstone]

I do t think the TEAC will be better than the PS Audio SG. - try the USB reclockers and think about a dedicated player / streamer those will probably give you what you're looking for!

[DancingSea]

After my initial sour test of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC at 50 hours break in, I let it run unfettered for 100 more hours without listening at any point along the way.  I didn't want the next test results to be attributed to me incrementally adjusting to the sound.

 

At 150 hours of break in, wow, what a difference.  It went from thin, perhaps even a bit brittle, to robust, full, and lush with plenty of detail.  The soundstage has opened up, left to right, front to back - even extending beyond the sides of the speakers.  The sound, when played through Amarra 4 Luxe, has an enchanting, tube like quality to it in my system.  Its clearly better than my PeachTree DAC iTx - maybe not 5 times better (the price difference), but at least 2.5 times better.

 

Will continue the break in up to 200 hours.  The Teac is on the way, will be here Thursday.  It has its work cut out.

 

Have been researching the USB reclockers, etc.  Has anyone tried the Ifi iPurifier 2?  For $109, I'm intrigued.

 

I can't find anywhere that has an in home trial for the Wyred4Sound RUR.  Ifi dealers seem to have more options.

[firedog]

I think Wyred will let you return it if you aren't satisfied. Ask them.

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

I think Wyred will let you return it if you aren't satisfied. Ask them.

 

Thanks, will check it out.  FWIW, the guy started this thread rates the iPurifier 2 and Wyred RUR nearly the same.  At half the price, I've ordered the iPurifier 2 from Music Direct.  From the reviews online that I read, the next steps up the Ifi ladder (the nano and the micro) may introduce brightness on the trebles, something I'm not found of.  Thus iPurifier 2 it is.  Music Direct gives a 60 day trial, so that's nice.

[beerandmusic]

any update or compariosn of the ps audio to the teac??

 

[DancingSea]

7 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

any update or compariosn of the ps audio to the teac??

 

 

The Teac has long since been returned.  For me, the ps audio was several notches better across the board. 

[Lee Scoggins]

On 6/13/2017 at 4:00 AM, DancingSea said:

After my initial sour test of the PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC at 50 hours break in, I let it run unfettered for 100 more hours without listening at any point along the way.  I didn't want the next test results to be attributed to me incrementally adjusting to the sound.

 

At 150 hours of break in, wow, what a difference.  It went from thin, perhaps even a bit brittle, to robust, full, and lush with plenty of detail.  The soundstage has opened up, left to right, front to back - even extending beyond the sides of the speakers.  The sound, when played through Amarra 4 Luxe, has an enchanting, tube like quality to it in my system.  Its clearly better than my PeachTree DAC iTx - maybe not 5 times better (the price difference), but at least 2.5 times better.

 

Will continue the break in up to 200 hours.  The Teac is on the way, will be here Thursday.  It has its work cut out.

 

Have been researching the USB reclockers, etc.  Has anyone tried the Ifi iPurifier 2?  For $109, I'm intrigued.

 

I can't find anywhere that has an in home trial for the Wyred4Sound RUR.  Ifi dealers seem to have more options.

 

Not sure if this helps but my DirectStream took a full 500 hours to sound its best although it was pretty good out of the box.  That's the longest break-in I have experienced but things did get really good at 200 hours.  I just kept playing it continuously.