Article: Extending A Network For HiFi

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[agentsmith]

If the powerline adapters are using the same power circuits as the hifi component, would the power circuits be affected by electrical noise or harmonics 

[esimms86]

What about (admittedly expensive but essentially bulletproof) options like EERO?

[Johnseye]

I was just looking to do this so I could use my endpoint to play music out back.  These are both great solutions.  Thanks for the info.

 

As a side note,  I was looking at the KEF LS50 Wireless speakers as an option.  Are you aware of any other similar speakers?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, agentsmith said:

If the powerline adapters are using the same power circuits as the hifi component, would the power circuits be affected by electrical noise or harmonics 

 

There are switching power supplies in both the RE650 and AV2000 units. These supplies would inject some noise back into your power line like any SMPS. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, esimms86 said:

What about (admittedly expensive but essentially bulletproof) options like EERO?

 

I believe eero would work in place of the wireless solution I recommend, but you'd need at least two eero devices to make it work like it should. That would be roughly $300.

 

I've been thinking about trying eero. I've heard great things. 

[Pedro Romão]

Been there, tried both before and in my case went for a third option (although only valid if you have a pre-installed tv-cable: MoCa (Ethernet over Coaxial).

Works perfect, no speed issues and unlike the solution over power line, I cannot detect sound degradation.

 

[Cornan]

Nice review @The Computer Audiophile!

I personally use the TP-Link RE450 as a wireless adapter. IME connecting the RE450 to a Isolation transformer with floating secondary and using a battery powered (w/disconnected charger) AQVOX switch-8 between the RE450 and my Aries Mini had a huge impact on sq with Tidal as source.

Also powering the router with a floating LPS is highly recommended.

 

I had great use for the black list settings to ensure that the rest of the family did´nt connect to my RE450. I also set the RE450 on a separate channel with static ip and DHCP off.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Excellent info. Thanks for the comments. 

[Cornan]

23 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Excellent info. Thanks for the comments. 

 

You´re welcome! In my experiments with this specific network chain it is extremely important to use a battery powered network switch with disconnected charger while listening to music. In my "simple" B setup (see signature) this was also constistant with the D-Link DGS-105 network switch. In this setup I use a TP-Link pocket router in client mode instead of the RE450 (same same, but different). Also important to note that this have only been tested with Tidal as source where all the music bits are passing through the whole network chain. The result listening to locally stored music could vary.

 

As a side note grounding the network switch via the GND screw in the back of the switch was also an eye opener.

 

[AvilleAudio]

My experience using the TP-Link AV2000 was similarly positive.  Running Ethernet cables through a second floor apartment in a 3 story building constructed about 1910 was not an option. I used the TP-Link to connect my Roon Core (a Mac Mini) via the DSL Router/Apple Time Capsule in the dining room to the MicroRendu in the living room.  It runs 24/192 without a hiccup.

 

Before this I tried using an Apple Express as an Ethernet Wi-Fi adapter.  It only worked for 16/44, with anything higher bandwidth causing Roon to freeze every few minutes.

 

My power lines are old and supply a window AC and refrigerator.  Even though they're about as noisy as it gets, the SQ is great--far better than supplying my DAC from the Mac directly.  I haven't strung an ethernet cable across my apartment to compare wired versus power line ethernet. It's a worthwhile experiment, but I choose not to know since it's not a permanent option and I choose to be happy.  Does the combination of Microrendu with a Uptone Audio Ultracaps LPS-1 effectively shield the DAC from power line noise?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, AvilleAudio said:

I haven't strung an ethernet cable across my apartment to compare wired versus power line ethernet. It's a worthwhile experiment, but I choose not to know since it's not a permanent option and I choose to be happy.

 

I love this statement. I'm in the same situation with many things here.

[jtwrace]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I believe eero would work in place of the wireless solution I recommend, but you'd need at least two eero devices to make it work like it should. That would be roughly $300.

 

I've been thinking about trying eero. I've heard great things. 

I've had Eero since the very beginning as an early adopter.  It's the BEST money I've ever spent on my network.  I have 6 of them and they're amazing.  I have no dead spots, DSD512 can easily be streamed and I've had up to 25 wireless devices going all at once with no issues.  I can't recommend them enough!

[The Computer Audiophile]

22 minutes ago, jtwrace said:

I've had Eero since the very beginning as an early adopter.  It's the BEST money I've ever spent on my network.  I have 6 of them and they're amazing.  I have no dead spots, DSD512 can easily be streamed and I've had up to 25 wireless devices going all at once with no issues.  I can't recommend them enough!

 

Great to hear!

[fizzylime]

I think a better option to Powerline networking is MOCA (Multimedia over Coax).  Won't work if your have satellite instead of cable (due to the higher frequency's satellite tv operates on which would interfere with MOCA networking) however.  I've tried both and found MOCA to be faster and more reliable.  In fact my TIVO Bolt has it built in... fwiw

[Kal Rubinson]

I, too, can recommend MoCA, particularly v2 and up, and I have used it for years.  CAT6 and fiber optic cables being installed now will soon make it superfluous. 

[stevebythebay]

5 hours ago, jtwrace said:

I've had Eero since the very beginning as an early adopter.  It's the BEST money I've ever spent on my network.  I have 6 of them and they're amazing.  I have no dead spots, DSD512 can easily be streamed and I've had up to 25 wireless devices going all at once with no issues.  I can't recommend them enough!

Agree as an early adopter of the Eero.  I've one wired into my Cisco smart switch (along with MacMini, dCS Network Switch, and QNAP NAS) collocated with audio system.  The other Eero's include one wired into an upstairs arrangement of Cisco switch and cable modem, while another supports a microRendu and Audio Alchemy DDP-1.  No glitches or sonic degradation found.  May move the QNAP upstairs if it ever becomes a sonic issue (so far I never hear it at all, unless I'm adding music to it or Roon needs to rescan the music folder), which is very infrequent.

[John Eaton]

14 hours ago, Pedro Romão said:

Been there, tried both before and in my case went for a third option (although only valid if you have a pre-installed tv-cable: MoCa (Ethernet over Coaxial).

Works perfect, no speed issues and unlike the solution over power line, I cannot detect sound degradation.

 

I agree with Pedro.  I’ve been down the powerline path and find MoCA to be a much better solution.

I’ve been using an Actiontec Dual-Band Wireless Network Extender and Ethernet Over Coax Adapter Kit (WCB3000NK01) for several years now. 

If you have coax in the vicinity of your router running to your hi-fi rack this solution will work great.

The outlet end has two Ethernet ports and serves as a wireless extender.  My notebook via wi-fi in the basement is just as fast as my desk top connected via Ethernet to the router on the second floor.  Plus, I use one of the Ethernet ports on the Actiontec to connect to a Ethernet switch so the Home Theater PC, the Oppo, and the PS-3 can all have a hard-wired Ethernet connection. 

If you don’t need the wireless extender feature consider Actiontec’s Bonded MoCa 2.0 Ethernet to Coax adapter.  This setup claims speeds up to 1Gbps.

Either system is about $150.

[garrardguy60]

I've never found range-extenders to work particularly well. Their advantage is that they are easy to set up, but they don't have good connectivity (hard to connect, frequent drops) and they are slow (slower than directly connecting to the network which they purport to extend).

 

The better solution, and one that's preferred by knowledgeable IT types, is simply to set up a WAP (wireless access point). The physical part of this is easy; however, configuring it is a pain, and can be a frustrating experience.

 

So, physically,  all you need to do is take an extra router (your generic Linksys wrg54t is fine), and put it in the room or area lacking decent wireless coverage. You need to have one Ethernet line running into that room, and you plug the Ethernet cable into one of the numbered connections in the router. (I.e., it's counterintuitive--do NOT plug the Ethernet into the "internet" input on the router. Plug it into either "1," "2," "3," or "4." (doesn't matter which)

 

Now, of course you lose the availability of that nice, high-speed wired Ethernet connection into that room, but you will replace it with the ability of any device in the room to connect wirelessly to the WAP, which that router will become once you configure it.

 

OK, so how do you configure it as a WAP? The main thing to remember is you have to turn off DHCP for that extension router (NOT for your main one). I mention this cause one of the links below doesn't mention this, and to me it's the main thing you need to know.

 

The other big challenge is "finding" the admin screen for the extension router (so you can turn off DHCP and also set up a password for it. I recommend a separate password from your main network, otherwise it might bounce between the weak original signal and this stronger new one). Note, annoying that many (most) routers will not let you do initial setup in situ, so you may have to take this WAP router and connect it directly via a short Ethernet cable and then it will let you access the admin screen. (After it's been set up, then you'll be able to find it on the network like any other device.)

 

I would add that, if you don't know anything about PCs or IT, these articles might only get you 90% of the way there, because in my experience there's always some nit they don't address. 

 

Personally, I would go with a Linksys (although their article below is not how i experienced setup; it doesn't mention DHCP. Maybe they've made their admin software more "for dummies," I don't know. I would also suggest staying AWAY from Belkin routers. They have a "one button" setup which makes it impossible to reset the thing as a WAP.

 

Anyway, hope this helps. Here are some links:

http://www.linksys.com/us/support-article?articleNum=136548

 

http://www.tp-link.com/us/faq-417.html

 

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-turn-an-old-wi-fi-router-into-an-access-point/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[garrardguy60]

I meant to say "connect it directly via a short Ethernet cable" TO YOUR PC to be able to configure.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi @garrardguy60 Thanks for the info, but this article is written for situations where a wired Ethernet connection can't be made. 

 

If someone can run an Ethernet cable, then I'd recommend a totally different solution from what I mentioned in this article. 

 

By the way, did you see the performance of the RE650 wireless extender in my system? Really great. 

[Booster MPS]

Thanks so much for this article as it speaks to a need I have been turning over in my head.  I am using a Mac Mini with Audirvana/USB drive and I would like to remove the Mini for a more purposed device such as Rendu/Aries around those price points with my USB DAC.  The RE650 and EERO look like interesting solutions opening up options to use an ethernet based solution.  

[watercourse]

This article is timely, and proved helpful to improve my tplink AV1000 powerline performance.

 

I was getting 300-400 Mbps throughput before reading this article, with the tplink plugged into a two-prong ungrounded outlet.

 

When I plugged it into a three-prong outlet, throughput increased, to always >450, and sometimes >600 Mbps. There is less grunge on the three-prong as well.

 

Thanks for the tip Chris!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Great to hear. 

[arglebargle]

I get flawless operation streaming DSD256 (about 3 megabytes a second?) from my server to an NAA with a lowly $40 TP-LINK extender that only operates at 2.4g. In my rural area though there isn't a single other network in range so interference is relatively low. With all my other devices connected to the 5ghz band of my actual router, even heavy wifi use elsewhere has no effect on the stream. As for sonic benefits, well, getting the server out of this room is a tweak I *can* hear. Very happy when something like this "just works"...a rare pleasure.