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Subpacs: Good bass alternative for a small room?


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Hi guys, I know this is not audiophile level gear, but I just found out about subpacs, and I was wondering if they are high quality enough to make a good compliment to a pair of small studio monitors, like JBL LSR305s.

 

To summarize from my other thread, I have a small bedroom less than 1500 cubic feet, definitely smaller than ideal for a subwoofer. I have an M-Audio M-Track (Mk II) interface, and I can hear bass down to a 16Hz organ pipe on my Sennheiser HD380 headphones with the right recording. That said, I'd love to feel bass this low, without compromising sound quality. Subpacs are rated 1-200Hz by the manufacturer, which would certainly include 16 Hz even if those specs are an exaggeration. They also claim that the subpacs are less affected by room size and acoustics than are subwoofers, given that they transmit bass directly to your body, rather than trying to fill a room.

 

I am just wondering what you guys think. Is a subpac good sound quality for the price, if my goal is to feel bass down to 16Hz? Would it make a good compliment to a pair of 305s, in terms of both sound quality and balance? Or is it just a crap consumer product, more suited to gaming than listening to or making music, even on a budget? Because if it's at least decent at what it does, I am thinking of exchanging my 2.1 multimedia speakers for 305s, and saving up for a subpac.

 

Edit: A different part of their website listed a more believable 5-130Hz range, still good enough for me!

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2 hours ago, STC said:

Nice concept. Thanx for bring it to our attention. Now, all music can make my body move. :) 

 

You're welcome. Yes, I do love the concept. At $350 for the backpack version or $300 for the seated version, it's certainly not marketed at audiophiles, but I was still wondering if any had tried it. After a bit of research, it seems it's the only similar product in its quality category. The seated version basically makes any computer chair into something akin to a gaming chair, but only for the bass, and presumably much higher quality.

 

I read some reviews, and it seems some DJs and producers love it, while others are not totally sold on the idea, but so far I see only good reviews of its quality/cost ratio.

 

Apparently, the subpac is as immune to room size/acoustics limitations as are headphones, since the sound is very quiet unless you're actually making bodily contact with it. I think it might be the perfect compliment to my HD380 headphones, although I'm not sure if it would compliment closed or open headphones better. I find these headphones (at $150) to have a remarkable quality/cost ratio, although I'm not experienced with expensive gear, so I don't really know what I'm missing like you guys do :P. I can definitely hear details I can't hear with the Klipsch ProMedias, and they're comfortable enough to wear for extended periods, so I'm really thinking of taking back the ProMedias and ordering a subpac.

 

Studio monitors, and room modifications to optimize their sound, can wait until I have a bigger budget, but the subpac may be a great compliment to studio monitors as well when I'm ready for a pair. All around, it just seems like the most cost effective way to feel a full range of bass without having to worry about room size/acoustics. I assume I can return it if I order it from Amazon, so I think I'll do that and let you guys know what I think.

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For $349, I would give it a try. I read through their FAQ and no mumbo jumbo there. It makes sense that low frequency transmitted through bone conduction. I think the use the spine to do the transmission. Who knows it may even have some medical benefits by stimulating the spine :) .

 

Finally, it looks like some sort of dress code for audiophiles.

 

I just a review about this product. Looks good but it just an opinion of another person under different purpose. 

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51 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

not so sure I'd want the thing thumping on my internal organs...

 

lol well it's not for everyone I guess. I now have a pair of headphones good enough to tell the difference between good recordings and crap, and hear details like musicians turning pages that I never heard before. The only thing I personally find missing with headphones is to feel the bass in my body. So... we'll see how I end up liking this thing lol.

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Alright guys, here are my and my friend's first impressions of the SubPac, along with my personal recommendations for listening to music on a sub-$1,000 budget: 

 

 

 

Although this forum is geared towards higher budgets, the things I learned here helped me make more informed decisions about what to prioritize for listening on a smaller budget.

 

Sound Quality:

 

I have now sampled my whole music library with the SubPac. It really rounds out what I think is by far the closest approximation to what I was looking for, for anything remotely close to the total cost I've invested. The bass experience is highly versatile. It is equally good for Trance, Jazz, Classical, and other genres. It is both full and punchy, it's not like having a subwoofer that's designed to deliver one kind of bass over another.

 

I have the SubPac connected to the monitor outs on my interface, and the headphones connected to the headphone out, with independent level controls. I leave the SubPac's own level control at the halfway point (where the curve transitions from linear to logarithmic), and my interface gives me fine control over the balance. I can boost the bass pretty darned high just by turning up the SubPac level, without audibly (or palpably) distorting the sound, or turn it down so it offers a realistic level of body resonance that you would get from experiencing music live. The only caveat in the realism is that your spine is what typically vibrates most with a SubPac, as opposed to, say, your chest. That said, I am made very aware of where in my body specific frequencies resonate with the SubPac: some in my butt, some in my lower back, and others in my head. The 16 Hz Bombarde on my favorite pipe organ recording is delivered through my spine and head with absolutely earth-shattering glory, and yet the clarity remains intact like I've never heard from a subwoofer (granted, I've never heard an audiophile-level subwoofer in a proper listening room). Just the fact that no bass at any level causes any objects to rattle in my room is itself a godsend.

 

Design/Comfort/Convenience:

 

The SubPac is not a perfect product, but the complaints I have are all relatively minor. It feels like a solid product made of quality materials. The comfort is about as good as I can reasonably expect. The SubPac is slightly padded, but it does stick out and is not as physically comfortable for long periods as is sitting in my ergonomic computer chair without it. Between the SubPac and my HD380 headphones, the SubPac is the limiting factor in comfort for long sessions.

 

The SubPac S2 comes with an x-shaped arrangement of adjustable straps to fit over various shapes and sizes of computer chairs. It also comes with an additional strap that's supposed to go over the top of your chair. This additional strap is not nearly long enough to go over my computer chair. The good news is this additional strap is not really needed. Without it, I've achieved a very snug and stable fit to my computer chair that has stayed in place for the hours I have used the SubPac so far.

 

Some people have complained that they weren't warned about the control box. Well, you audiophiles understand the need for such a thing, to properly power it, and to provide an input and output some distance away from the epicenter of the vibrations. This control box comes with a strap to conveniently attach it to the underside of a computer chair arm rest. My only complaint with this part of the design is that the control box can fairly easily slide off the strap. The cables should keep it from falling to the floor, though, and I imagine an easy fix would be to stick some additional piece of cloth into the clip.

 

Conclusion:

 

The SubPac is definitely not a cheap gimmick, but a serious product of high quality to cost ratio, and what I believe is the best (and possibly only) way to hear and feel every possible frequency on a sub-$1,000 budget. The comfort of the seated (S2) version is decent relative to reasonable expectations, but it will probably make your ergonomic computer chair significantly less comfortable for long listening sessions. I'm tempted to compare it to the backpack (M2) version, particularly to see which is more comfortable, but I have to be careful about throwing around money to compare products given my budget. The only other complaints I have about the SubPac I mentioned above for completeness' sake, but they probably wouldn't be significant enough to affect most peoples' buying decisions.

 

The SubPac offers a fundamentally different experience from listening to music on headphones alone. Whether feeling music the way the SubPac allows is for you is a personal decision. I don't know what level of headphones the SubPac would be able to compliment well in terms of quality, but I find it an impressive compliment to my HD380s, delivering a truly augmented experience without sacrificing quality.

 

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2 hours ago, coot said:

Hi Nobear,

Thank you for a very interesting report.

Can you say, please, specifically what recordings you have that go down to 16hz?

 

Hi coot,

 

I'm glad you found it interesting.

 

Full pipe organs go down to around 16 Hz (a very low C), on multiple registers (sets of pipes with distinct timbres). Some registers have a more pure tone, and some have rich harmonics that make them sound like a very musical fart, while feeling like an earthquake (e.g. the Bombarde register).

 

The recording I have where the 16 Hz Bombarde pipe comes across most loud and clear is from a CD rerelease of Lionel Rogg's performance of Bach's Fantasies and Fugues, recorded on the Silbermann organ at Arlesheim in 1970. I'm pretty sure disk 6 of this 12-CD set of Bach's complete organ works is identical to the recording I have. In particular, I play the Passacaglia and Fugue in C Minor (BWV 582) from this recording to test bass range.

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Thanks. I don't play keyboard, but have been a huge organ fan (esp. Bach) all my life. Always wished there was a comprehensive list of organs which have (at least) 32-ft pipes. Do you know of such?

Also, there don't seem to be many organ recordings in hi-res. 

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8 hours ago, coot said:

Thanks. I don't play keyboard, but have been a huge organ fan (esp. Bach) all my life. Always wished there was a comprehensive list of organs which have (at least) 32-ft pipes. Do you know of such?

Also, there don't seem to be many organ recordings in hi-res. 

 

http://www.die-orgelseite.de/orgelliste_e.php allows you to search a database of 4,900 organs by various criteria, including number of real 32' stops. It looks like there are 846 organs with one 32' stop, 616 with two, 129 with three, 45 organs with four or more real 32' stops, and even two with a real 64' stop.

 

I haven't looked into high res, as I'm on a budget and don't have true audiophile level gear to perhaps tell the difference.

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